Questions on raw food?

[M&M's Mommy]

I've been reading some very interesting threads about raw food, and learned that it's probably the best diet for dogs, but I have yet dare to try it on my pups due to the following questions.

1) First of all, is it good for ALL dogs? (It seems to me most people who feed raw food have large breed dogs. Mine are tiny. Is it okay for them, too?

2) Do you need to vary the raw food, or I can just feed them raw chicken every day? (It seems like we don't vary the kibble once we've picked one)

3) How do you deal with the clean up after they eat? I don't want to mob the floor after every meal, but if I don't mob it very carefully, will the ants be all over??

4) Do you have to thaw the meat first, or you can feed it frozen?

Thank you.

 

[DanL]

1: We have a pug who is raw fed. There are other people with small dogs. You just need to give them the appropriate food for their size. I wouldn't say that ALL dogs will do well on a raw diet but most dogs should do better. Whether they do well or not isn't as much based on size as it is the overall health of the dog and it's willingness to try new food. We found that dinnertime became a whole new ballgame when we went raw. They are excited to eat now.

2: Yes, you vary the food. You don't need to feed a big variety every day or even every week but you want them to get a variety over time. Feeding something like chicken every day will deprive them of nutrients found in other food sources. Remember, your kibble supposedly has everything they need in it. You have to use variety to get the same nutitional diversity with raw- chicken, pork, beef, turkey, fish, organ meats like liver and kidney, eggs, etc. Most people start out with chicken for a few weeks as it's easy for the dogs to get used to. Then you gradually introduce other foods a little at a time. After a few months they will be adapted to just about anything you give them.

3: Feed them outside in the yard. No cleanup. Some people train the dog to eat on a mat or towel, but mine eat outside even in winter. The only time they eat inside is if it's pouring rain, and then they are fed in the garage or crate. Follow normal food preparation cleanliness that you'd normally use for your countertops. It's no different than prepping raw meat for cooking for your family.

4: Depends on the dog. One of mine doesn't care, another won't eat it frozen. It's not really important. I find frozen or partially frozen makes them take their time.

 

[Mordy]

1) First of all, is it good for ALL dogs? (It seems to me most people who feed raw food have large breed dogs. Mine are tiny. Is it okay for them, too?

No, it certainly can't be said that a raw diet is appropriate for every dog out there, but that depends much more on individual needs and tolerance than on the dog's body size. Just because your dogs are tiny doesn't mean they can't eat raw period.

2) Do you need to vary the raw food, or I can just feed them raw chicken every day? (It seems like we don't vary the kibble once we've picked one)

Variety is good, as long as the dog tolerates it. If you don't want to put the effort into balancing a diet "by the numbers" so to speak, you'll have to make sure that you provide enough variety to cover all nutritional requirements. White meat is less nutrient rich than red meat for example, so you have to feed things like chicken hearts and livers as well at the very least.

Personally I don't like playing a "guessing game", so I analyze my feeding plans in advance and tweak them to cover most of the nutrient requirements from food sources and whatever comes up short is supplemented (e.g. nutritional yeast as a food source of natural B vitamins).

However, there are food sensitive/allergic dogs out there who can't be fed a wide variety of things, and in such cases you have to carefully supplement the diet to ensure all needs are met.

3) How do you deal with the clean up after they eat? I don't want to mob the floor after every meal, but if I don't mob it very carefully, will the ants be all over??

My dog is trained to eat his raw meaty bones on a towel, which are washed regularly. It didn't take long at all to teach him that he has to stay on it while eating.

4) Do you have to thaw the meat first, or you can feed it frozen?

I mostly feed raw meaty bones frozen since it gives the dog a better workout. The meals consisting of ground meats, veggies and extras that I feed in the morning are thawed in the refrigerator overnight.

 

[juliefurry]

I feed Hannah raw, just started, and it seems to help in some areas that we were having trouble with (plaque and tarter accumulation). Small and large dogs can eat raw but with smaller dogs they just get smaller sections of meat and bone. You are suppose to vary the food because certain things are lacking in some areas where others aren't. So variety is a good, and from what I understand important part of the raw feeding. Well I have started teaching Hannah to eat her raw meat on a towel in the laundry room and then I just wash the towel nightly. I also package the meats in one area and I line it with papertowels so when I'm done I just pick up the papertowels and then bleach the area I used to package the food. I also run the bags under water before I put them in the freezer or refrigerator. I feed Hannah partially frozen meats (not completely frozen) just because it helps her chew it better. Usually it's always thawed out when she gets it though.

 

[rhinecat]

I will probably end up reiterating a lot of other answers, but hey, we both have two small dogs, so maybe I will be at least a little helpful.

1) First of all, is it good for ALL dogs? (It seems to me most people who feed raw food have large breed dogs. Mine are tiny. Is it okay for them, too?

Raw isn't necessarily best for every individual dog, but small dogs can eat raw just fine. In some cases, I would say they would benefit more from a raw diet, since they're so prone to tooth decay, which raw bone helps prevent. EV's teeth have become noticeably cleaner on all surfaces, and her breath is quite good.

2) Do you need to vary the raw food, or I can just feed them raw chicken every day? (It seems like we don't vary the kibble once we've picked one)

If feeding a home-prepared diet, then yes, variety is very necessary in order to acheive nutritional balance over time. I would suggest varying meat types even if you decide to go with a commercially-prepared raw diet, just in case (and also so as not to create picky eaters).

3) How do you deal with the clean up after they eat? I don't want to mob the floor after every meal, but if I don't mob it very carefully, will the ants be all over??

Anti-bacterial wipes work really well for hard floors; you can just drop one and swab it around with your foot, then wipe the floor dry with a paper towel. You can also feed the dogs in crates or even the bathtub, which cuts down on cleanup considerably, since there are no porous surfaces, nor can they drag meat around.

4) Do you have to thaw the meat first, or you can feed it frozen?

Mine will not touch frozen, no matter what. One of them has no teeth, so frozen meats aren't an option for him, but the other has no excuse. But yes, you can feed frozen, as long as your dogs don't react badly to it.

 

[Kanga]

What a great thread it has clarified a lot of questions I had and never found the answers too as I too am nervous about doing the wrong thing if I were to feed raw.

 

[rhinecat]

What a great thread it has clarified a lot of questions I had and never found the answers too as I too am nervous about doing the wrong thing if I were to feed raw.

I am too! I am somewhat disorganized and very concerned about being responsible enough to prepare my dogs' food from scratch. I feed a frozen premade raw food (Nature's Variety, so far we've tried the beef, chicken, chicken + turkey, and rabbit) which is "complete and balanced" and contains veggies and other stuff already mixed in. They eat that for the majority of their food, but also get home-prepared meals with whole raw bones for the tooth-cleaning benefit, and to help me get more comfortable with the idea of being totally responsible for their diets. I am also working towards creating a home-prepared diet for my cats, since one has food allergies.

 

[M&M's Mommy]

I am too! I am somewhat disorganized and very concerned about being responsible enough to prepare my dogs' food from scratch. I feed a frozen premade raw food (Nature's Variety, so far we've tried the beef, chicken, chicken + turkey, and rabbit) which is "complete and balanced" and contains veggies and other stuff already mixed in. They eat that for the majority of their food, but also get home-prepared meals with whole raw bones for the tooth-cleaning benefit, and to help me get more comfortable with the idea of being totally responsible for their diets. I am also working towards creating a home-prepared diet for my cats, since one has food allergies.

Oh, I do not know that there're premade raw foods available (that proves how little I know about this feeding raw food thingy) - no wonder I'm so nervous about not knowing where & how to start!!, but if I don't want to buy it premade, I can just buy it from the regular grocery store, right?

All of you've said that while raw food is certainly more beneficial for dogs in general, it may not be a good choice for a certain individual dog, how do you know for sure if your dog is one of those that can't be fed raw?? If I switch to feeding raw food, and find out that it's not tolerateable/suited for my dogs, can I go back to kibbles?

I'm sorry for having too many questions, but I want to learn as much as I can in order to make a good desicion I won't regret later

 

[DanL]

I'm not sure I'd use premade raw foods. Like mentioned in Juliefurry's post, you don't know what you are getting in those. Plus, they are expensive- pet food companies jumping on the raw feeding bandwagon and making money. You are much better off getting your food from the grocery store, butcher, and outlet type places like Costco/Sams'/Walmart. You can feed your dogs for less than $1 per lb if you buy in bulk, on sale, and reduced items.

There have been a lot of posts about exactly what to do for feeding raw- do a forum search. Some good sites for basic raw feeding info are www.rawdogranch.com and www.rawfed.com

There is no problem changing back to kibble if your dog doesn't take to raw. Just don't be quick to evaluate- it takes a couple months for you to see the effects. You'll have smaller poops almost immediately- this shows you how much of the raw food is being processed by your dog. My GSD gets 2.5lbs of food a day and his poop looks like something a small kibble fed dog would produce. Our pug puts out a few grape size pieces and thats it. Things like improved coat, much less shedding, cleaner teeth, trim, fit appearance, and increased vitality will all take longer to develop. Depending on how old your dog is, they can actually go thru a phase where they are expunging all the toxins from the kibble, and they may look worst for a while, then make a marked improvement.

If your dog is excited about eating raw, then you are probably going to be ok. We put our 12 year old dog on raw when she was 11, and it made a huge difference in her. She's excited to eat. Our pug is like a little Tasmanian Devil, running out to the feeding area (about 60' from our door) turning circles as fast as his little legs can carry him. He never did that for kibble. If your dog acts like that, then the rest is about making a balanced diet to make sure your guys get all the nutrients they need.

 

[Mordy]

Just a note on the "better off getting your food from the grocery store, butcher, and outlet type places like Costco/Sams'/Walmart":

Many suppliers of raw food inform customers what quality of meat they use, and there's a good number that uses high quality meat from animals raised without antibiotics, hormones etc.

Bravo for example uses humanely raised, antibiotic-free chicken, Australian- and New Zealand-raised, grass-fed and range-fed beef and lamb (NZ has stricter standards than the US when it comes to producing meat animals, no use of hormones etc.), and even carry organic chicken and turkey.

At many grocery stores and mass retailers you get your standard feedlot-fed beef and factory farmed, chicken and turkey that's generally raised with antibiotics.

Something to stay especially far, far away from (my opinion of course, I care where my food comes from) are any chicken products produced by Tyson, their production standards and business ethics are rock bottom.

 

[M&M's Mommy]

Oops, we eat Tyson products ourselves!!

 

[DanL]

Tyson is going to be better than kibble if you look at impurities and additives. The problem with getting free range, organic meats is they are way way more expensive, which negates the price advantage of feeding raw. We don't get Tyson here, but we do get Perdue. As a matter of fact, Gunnar won't eat any chicken that is not Perdue. I'm sure Perdue isn't a lot better but it's what we choose for ourselves and our dogs.

 

[weylyn]

I stay clear of a lot of grocery store meats. I buy my chicken from a local farm. Although it's a commerical farm, it's small and only serves certain parts of my state. Their birds are about 1/2 the size of grocery store birds, although I've never checked to find out about the hormones. Free range birds are wildly out of my budget due to the fact I buy 200+lbs a food per month for the dogs. Nevertheless, I buy free range stuff or wild caught foods whenever possible.

Be wary of most grocery store meats...SOME contain added salts, flavorings and broths. Those I will not feed.

 

[DanL]

Good point, I always look at the ingredients to make sure there is no broth and salt. This is why I don't feed a lot of turkey as it's hard to get turkey around here that doesn't have a lot of add on stuff to keep them moist. Same goes for the oven stuffer roaster type of chickens- those are cheap sometimes but I don't use them. Plain old leg quarters, split breasts, whole broilers is about the extent of my chicken use.

 

[Mordy]

Tyson is going to be better than kibble if you look at impurities and additives.

Actually I disagree. It might be better than the lower-end kibbles, but certainly not the really good ones. Take into consideration what those chickens are eating to build body mass. It's most likely the chicken equivalent of Purina dog chow, right down to rendered meat and bone meals, unless the chickens are actually vegetarian fed. All the crap from the feed is going to be present in the chicken carcass itself too.

That's an entirely different debate though, so I'm not going to take this thread off topic any further.

 

[rhinecat]

I'm not sure I'd use premade raw foods. Like mentioned in Juliefurry's post, you don't know what you are getting in those.

You do if you call the manufacturer and ask exactly what you're getting--what farms do they get their meat from? Which ingredients are organic? The ingredients, are, of course, listed plainly on the bag, and NV has been excellent about answering my more specific queries.

Plus, they are expensive- pet food companies jumping on the raw feeding bandwagon and making money. You are much better off getting your food from the grocery store, butcher, and outlet type places like Costco/Sams'/Walmart.

Absolutely, pre-made is expensive. However, you're paying for the convenience of not making or mixing or designing your own diet, which I appreciate at this point.

 

[DanL]

Actually I disagree. It might be better than the lower-end kibbles, but certainly not the really good ones. Take into consideration what those chickens are eating to build body mass. It's most likely the chicken equivalent of Purina dog chow, right down to rendered meat and bone meals, unless the chickens are actually vegetarian fed. All the crap from the feed is going to be present in the chicken carcass itself too.

That's an entirely different debate though, so I'm not going to take this thread off topic any further.

I guess some kind of analysis of the meat would show what is in there? Just asking, I don't know. Either way, feeding a chicken to a dog that was fed crap is better than feeding the crap to your dog.

 

[weylyn]

Unless the dry dog food contains certified organic ingredients and meat sources, they use the same chickens that are "fed crap." It's just cooked.

 

[ihartgonzo]

I think DanL was saying, kibbles include not only chickens that are "fed crap", but also the "crap" that chickens are fed... gross fillers and such.

I definitely agree that feeding a Raw diet of meats from the grocery store IS better than feeding even premium kibble. You just do not know what's in there, quite honestly, at the end of the day. "Holistic" can mean absolutely nothing, although of course premium kibbles are totally a good food to be feeding. Still, even premium kibbles contain plenty of meat, not to mention that junk is c o o k e d which kills off a lot of natural nutrients that are in Raw meat.

 

[LizzieCollie]

Actually I disagree. It might be better than the lower-end kibbles, but certainly not the really good ones. Take into consideration what those chickens are eating to build body mass. It's most likely the chicken equivalent of Purina dog chow, right down to rendered meat and bone meals, unless the chickens are actually vegetarian fed.

Wow, I eat Tyson chicken and I always have and im in perfect health! Lizzie eats Purina One so I guess we are on the same boat