Nailing Cesar Millan With Tough, Truthful, Appropriate Questions - It's About Time

[Barbara!]

There's a difference between jabbing and punching? That's just semantics. I have seen videos myself of Cesar Milan KICKING fearful/reactive dogs to "correct" their fear. Sorry, but you don't "correct" a fearful action... You show the dog why the fearful reaction wasn't needed. You don't kick them and make them more fearful of the object/situation. And Cesar recommends prong collars and e-collars. Saying "he just uses what the owners have" sounds like an excuse for a bad trainer. The owners could have a bull whip... Would he use that, too? And yes, he certainly does use them himself. Just because the prong collar may not belong to him, doesn't mean he wasn't using it.



And what do you mean "dogs that are that far gone"? Dogs that are fearful or aggressive? Or just misbehaving dogs? I'm curious.

 

[rubygirl]

There's a difference between jabbing and punching? That's just semantics. I have seen videos myself of Cesar Milan KICKING fearful/reactive dogs to "correct" their fear. Sorry, but you don't "correct" a fearful action... You show the dog why the fearful reaction wasn't needed. You don't kick them and make them more fearful of the object/situation. And Cesar recommends prong collars and e-collars. Saying "he just uses what the owners have" sounds like an excuse for a bad trainer. The owners could have a bull whip... Would he use that, too?

And what do you mean "dogs that are that far gone"? Dogs that are fearful or aggressive? Or just misbehaving dogs? I'm curious.

Semantics. I wonder if two dogs fighting are considering the semantics...?
Which will then bring in the argument... we are not animals we are intelligent beings... well yes but sometimes you need to deal with a dog on a basic/primal level.
You are right. He misread this dog. Generally he is more perceptive so I don't know what his problem is. Jaded? Cocky? I don't know nor care.
The thing is that treat training is more for trick training or when the dog is having minor issues (whether food aggression is minor is for another day) but I wouldn't say it is for serious issues. The issues this man deals with.
It's quite simple. You don't like his training methods, don't use them. Really, really simple.

 

[rubygirl]

Also. Kicking, punching, jabbing. That is taken to an EXTREME.
To argue "semantics", when you kick a horse in the side to get it going, is that abuse?
For a jockey to use a short whip on the track, is that abuse?
To show a dog and use a teeny tiny choke chain on a rottweiler to stack the dog and hold it, isn't that abusive?
I just don't understand...

 

[Barbara!]

Semantics. I wonder if two dogs fighting are considering the semantics...?

...huh?

Which will then bring in the argument... we are not animals we are intelligent beings... well yes but sometimes you need to deal with a dog on a basic/primal level.

In what situations? Please describe a situation where you feel a prong collar or any of Cesar's methods are NEEDED.

You are right. He misread this dog. Generally he is more perceptive so I don't know what his problem is. Jaded? Cocky? I don't know nor care.
The thing is that treat training is more for trick training or when the dog is having minor issues (whether food aggression is minor is for another day) but I wouldn't say it is for serious issues. The issues this man deals with.
It's quite simple. You don't like his training methods, don't use them. Really, really simple.

Once again, what serious issues? What situations?

My Rhodesian Ridgeback was severely dog aggressive and reactive. He would rip a dog in half if given the chance. (Sounds pretty SEVERE to me..) and whaddya know, "treat training" taught him how to control himself around other strange dogs! Who would have thunk it?

Also. Kicking, punching, jabbing. That is taken to an EXTREME.
To argue "semantics", when you kick a horse in the side to get it going, is that abuse?
For a jockey to use a short whip on the track, is that abuse?
To show a dog and use a teeny tiny choke chain on a rottweiler to stack the dog and hold it, isn't that abusive?
I just don't understand...

Do you know what semantics means? Because you're not really using it in proper context.

 

[rubygirl]

...huh?




In what situations? Please describe a situation where you feel a prong collar or any of Cesar's methods are NEEDED.




Once again, what serious issues? What situations?

My Rhodesian Ridgeback was severely dog aggressive and reactive. He would rip a dog in half if given the chance. (Sounds pretty SEVERE to me..) and whaddya know, "treat training" taught him how to control himself around other strange dogs! Who would have thunk it?

You are bringing up semantics but if dog A Disagreed with dog B then dog A would whoop dog B's ass and think nothing of it. If a human being mock bites or jabs a dog then it's abusive.... ridiculous.
I have never used a prong collar but I use a choke chain. If I didn't my dog would walk like a douche. I don't pull, yank or tug but if she pulls then it is uncomfortable and she quits. I don't use many of "Cesar's" methods but I will use force if necessary.
Serious aggression issues. Biting.

 

[rubygirl]

I'm high so bear with me

 

[Barbara!]

You can teach your dog to stay near you with a properly reinforced positive association with staying by you... Instead of yanno, choking her and damaging her trachea.

And once again, you didn't answer my question.... What "extreme" situations are Cesar's methods needed?

 

[rubygirl]

As I said. I don't tug on her, she pulls and she has some resistance then she quits pulling.
I would love you to come train my dog with properly reinforced positive association. I would laugh. My dogs not a run of the mill simpleton. She has a mind of her own lol

 

[rubygirl]

If you are calling that thing in your avatar a Rhodie then you are sadly mistaken. Unless you have another dog?

 

[Barbara!]

So do most dogs. Being able to be trained with scientifically proven methods doesn't make your dog a simpleton. I feel sad for your dogs... And have YOU tried to train them the proper way... Rather than with the fastest way that works for you? It's really not hard. I have four dogs and all have them have minds of their own and all of them pulled on the leash when I got them. Now they don't and I didn't need a prong or choke chain for that.

If you are calling that thing in your avatar a Rhodie then you are sadly mistaken. Unless you have another dog?

And if you think you know better than professional trainers with years of schooling and education on the behavior of canines... Then YOU are sadly mistaken.

I have 4 dogs, thanks.

 

[Picklepaige]

If you are calling that thing in your avatar a Rhodie then you are sadly mistaken. Unless you have another dog?

Wow.

extra text

 

[JessLough]

I can guarantee you that if you got hungry enough. If you were watching your actual children starving... your dog would become the main course nom nom... lol.

I can guarantee that she wouldn't. Because... well.. she's not fat, so there'd my nothing to "nom", and it would make me very very very sick, as a vegetarian

I really have nothing to add to the OP

 

[rubygirl]

So do most dogs. Being able to be trained with scientifically proven methods doesn't make your dog a simpleton. I feel sad for your dogs... And have YOU tried to train them the proper way... Rather than with the fastest way that works for you? It's really not hard. I have four dogs and all have them have minds of their own and all of them pulled on the leash when I got them. Now they don't and I didn't need a prong or choke chain for that.




And if you think you know better than professional trainers with years of schooling and education on the behavior of canines... Then YOU are sadly mistaken.

I have 4 dogs, thanks.

No you just need a garbage bag full of treats. I tried it. It's ******* awkward.
I haven't had to do much but what I have done hasn't need much repitition. And nooooo my dog is not petrified of me. She's an amazingly happy dog!

 

[rubygirl]

I can guarantee that she wouldn't. Because... well.. she's not fat, so there'd my nothing to "nom", and it would make me very very very sick, as a vegetarian

I really have nothing to add to the OP

Ah yes. Because a starving vegetarian will cling to their skewed morals when they are in the midst of starving to death :rofl1: whatthe****ever.
PETA alert!

 

[JessLough]

Ah yes. Because a starving vegetarian will cling to their skewed morals when they are in the midst of starving to death :rofl1: whatthe****ever.

Again... it has nothing to do with morals. (What morals are we talking about, exactly? I'm vegetarian since I hate the taste of meat....). I'll stick to the fact that I know that it would make me incredibly sick.

 

[Barbara!]

No you just need a garbage bag full of treats. I tried it. It's f*cking awkward.
I haven't had to do much but what I have done hasn't need much repitition. And nooooo my dog is not petrified of me. She's an amazingly happy dog!

So... You haven't actually done it? Because if you did, you wouldn't need the choke chain.

I never said or asked if your dog was petrified of you and I never insinuated that your dogs weren't happy. I said I feel sorry for them. Because you find methods that work for yourself, and not for them.

Once again, what serious issues? What situations?

Going to ask this again.

Your dog isn't any different from the hundreds of dogs on this board alone that were trained just fine with R+. Our dogs aren't "simple minded". They're dogs, and that's how dogs learn.

Ah yes. Because a starving vegetarian will cling to their skewed morals when they are in the midst of starving to death :rofl1: whatthe****ever.
PETA alert!

And now someone being vegetarian means they have skewed morals and are from PETA? ...

Lord.

 

[rubygirl]

So... You haven't actually done it? Because if you did, you wouldn't need the choke chain.

I never said or asked if your dog was petrified of you and I never insinuated that your dogs weren't happy. I said I feel sorry for them. Because you find methods that work for yourself, and not for them.



Going to ask this again.

Your dog isn't any different from the hundreds of dogs on this board alone that were trained just fine with R+. Our dogs aren't "simple minded". They're dogs, and that's how dogs learn.



And now someone being vegetarian means they have skewed morals and are from PETA? ...

Lord.

What exactly are you asking me?

 

[Barbara!]

The same thing I've asked you four times. WHAT situations are Cesar's methods needed? You keep saying "extreme" or "serious" cases or dogs that are "too far gone". What are you talking about? What do you mean?

 

[rubygirl]

When a dogs highly HA or DA. When it has killed another animal or seriously bit a person. It's gone beyond clicking and treating.

 

[rubygirl]

Here's an example (not Cesars methods)-- my dog used to jump. A lot... she has Boxer in her. I tried to use positive reinforcement. Treating all that bull ****. I also tried the avoidance tactic (simply turning my back to her). Didnt work.
Finally I got sick of it (I have two kids). She jumped one day and I raised my knee and bumped her in the chest. She never did it again unless we call her up.