I'm Curious - Parvo, Puppies, and Socialization

Fleera

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#1
So, I've been wondering what you are supposed to do for puppy socialization since you aren't supposed to expose them to other dogs because of parvo. By the time they've been vaccinated and their titer is sufficient, they are already older (not very, but enough) that they've been missing out on socialization.

I went by the vet's advice and didn't socialize the poor little bugger until he was fully vaccinated. He still doesn't want to "play" with other dogs and that bothers me. Some day when we get another dog (intending on years from now) I want to know how to socialize him without getting him exposed to parvo. Any thoughts?
 

Lizmo

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#2
My dogs are out from the get go. I don't let things like Parvo worry me into not socializing. I will take precautions, for example, by not going to places like Petsmart, Petco, Dog Parks (not that I do anyways), etc. But I have no problems what so ever with taking a puppy for a walk at a public park, playing with other dogs I know on safe ground, taking training classes, etc. I would rather socialize then take the chance on having a dog with fear issues.
 

theresa92841

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#3
Many places have puppy socialization classes before the pups are fully vaccinated. They require them to have had one vaccination. I think it is just measuring the risks. I wouldn't take the puppy out to parks or on walks. Or anywhere unknown doggies could be. But I would take them to a reputable puppy socialization class. Or over to friends houses where you know their dogs are vaccinated. That sort of thing.

I know exactly what you mean. I did as you did with one of my first dogs. There is no way to be risk free, but to me careful socialization is something that is essential for the pupsters.
 
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#4
I have always made sure they have had at least one puppy vaccination before I take them anywhere.
 

Lolas Dad

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#5
Lola was not properly socialized with dogs when I first adopted her even though she was living with 4 of them she only got along with one. That was part of why the previous owner was giving her up for adoption. At that time she was a year old

What I did was take her to some parks that I knew would be a lot of people walking their dogs only to find out we hit the jackpot because this park had a dog park and I never even knew they existed until that day. What I did was brought Lola outside the dog park on leash and as we were standing their she was barking at the other dogs and wanted me to pick her up. Instead of picking her up I just let her try to keep jumping up and told her I was not picking her up. After a few minutes she realized that I was not going to pick her up and stopped jumping up. We stayed their for about 10 minutes and as we were heading back to the truck their was another person walking 2 dachshund's towards the dog park and Lola turned around and started following them so I let her go back and again we stood outside the fence for a bit.The whole time she was on leash. We then left and a few days later went back and this time we were outside the dog park on leash and walked her around the outside of the fence. A few dogs inside were following right along with us so she was able to sniff them and get to know them. She also was not barking this time.

After a few more times doing it that way I seen she was comfortable enough to go inside off leash so we went inside I took her leash off and she hopped up on the bench and sat their watching the other dogs. About the fifth time bringing her their she started playing with the other dogs.

After that I found out about a dog park seminar which taught the people how to recognize body language of a dog to be able to tell whether it is playing and what to watch for if a dog is becoming aggresive. When the instructor was talking about how dogs bow to each other in play Lola was bowing to another dog that was at the seminar and it wasn't even planned for her to do that. It was as if she understood what he was saying and he said their is a perfect example right their and pointed to Lola.

After the seminar their was a few people that stayed around and we let the dogs play off leash. In him commenting how well Lola was behaved around the other dogs I mentioned to him that she was not that way when I first adopted her and how she did not like other dogs and how I socialized her by walking her outside the fence of the dog park the first few times before going in. He then commented that I socialized her the right way with other dogs at the dog park.
 

Dekka

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#6
I stopped worrying about the shots thing after I was at a seminar where it was pointed out far more dogs die due to lack of socialization (behaviour problems that could have been prevented or made less problematic by socialization) than from parvo.

I take puppies to play with friends dogs, not to the local park.. Or to a good puppy class where they clean well etc. One of the most dangerous places to take your puppy ironically is the vet's office.
 
B

Blue_Dog

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#7
I made sure that Sam had his first set of shots then I started walking him and socializing him, but only with dogs that I knew were safe. While taking precautions against things like parvo is important I think socialization is just as important, especially seeing my neighbor's golden growing up dog aggressive because he only ever met two dogs while he was young, one that attacked him. :/
 
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#8
I made sure that Sam had his first set of shots then I started walking him and socializing him, but only with dogs that I knew were safe.
^^^ That's what we did with Riley ... set up play dates with neighbors' and friends' dogs that we knew to be safe. That way, he got plenty of exposure to many different sizes and breeds of dogs but we didn't have to worry about Parvo ... which IS a problem around here. He's about a year and a half old now, and is perfectly fine with other dogs.
 

Maxy24

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#9
I would avoid dog parks, pet stores, and other high traffic dog areas. However I would go to human parks and on walks, that way human socialization doesn't suffer as well. Making play dates with dogs you know are vaccinated would be good. I personally would allow my dog to met others on leash on walks, I don't worry that much about Parvo. I probably wouldn't let him all out play with another dog with questionable vaccinations until he was vaccinated.
 

sammgirl

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#11
My dogs are out from the get go. I don't let things like Parvo worry me into not socializing. I will take precautions, for example, by not going to places like Petsmart, Petco, Dog Parks (not that I do anyways), etc. But I have no problems what so ever with taking a puppy for a walk at a public park, playing with other dogs I know on safe ground, taking training classes, etc. I would rather socialize then take the chance on having a dog with fear issues.
This. Very much this.
 
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#12
My last puppy who was a FULLY vaccinated pug mix died from parvo within two days of showing symptoms and being taken to the e-vet. Never again will I not take parvo seriously. Bob who is now 4 years old got parvo and was hospitalized for 2 weeks. He was only a 6 week old puppy who still nursed off his mother when he got it. He missed out on everything while he recovered and hes very nervous still and antisocial with strange dogs.

Gunnar just got his 4th vaccination and is about 4 months old and I an going to start letting him outside ( he hasnt even been in the backyard). Hes had plenty of socialization seeing as there are 10 other dogs for him to socialize with. Im going to take him on his first dog park trip soon.

Parvo is VERY serious in my city, and vets have even found a new strain they call "Super parvo virus" that even vaccinated puppies are dying from. Bob would have died except he had blood transfusions and tried brand new medications. It took him a few months to fully recover, he got mange from the vet since his immune system was so messed up.

You may not worry now and care more about puppy socialization more, but once you have a puppy whose life is messed up or he dies because of parvo you will be much more cautious. I care much more about protecting Gunnar's life then if he meets new dogs.5 month old puppies can still be socialized just fine ;)
 
B

Blue_Dog

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#13
Please do tell that to my neighbour or to my friend. They both waited until their pups were fully vaccinated. Three and Six years later they still have socialization problems. Never will I take socialization less seriously again.

Moderation is key. Be wary of things like parvo but don't make your dog a shut-in either. Physical health and socialization are very, very, very important. I think it also does depend on the situation. If where you live is having major issues with something like parvo, yeah protect your dog fully. It's also a lot different if you have other dogs and people to socialize your pup, not everybody has more than one dog.
 

Southpaw

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#14
Honestly I was baaaaad with Juno. She went just about everywhere before she was fully vaccinated. I was paranoid, Lucy is so horribly undersocialized that I wanted to be SURE that Juno was well socialized. Paid off for us but obviously I wouldn't recommend that to people... like others have mentioned there are plenty of safe ways to socialize a dog that isn't fully vaccinated. Puppy classes, playing with dogs that you know, I would even feel comfortable going to pet stores and -carrying- the pup (but perhaps that's just me!).

Parvo just isn't my biggest worry. I'd rather take some small socialization risks, instead of having my dog live in a bubble so to speak, for 4 months. It kills me that I can't do anything with Lucy except take her for leashed walks around the neighborhood... because she doesn't like other dogs OR strange people.
 

AllieMackie

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#15
I'm probably just echoing everyone else here, but there's definitely a "middle ground" as folks are explaining here. Avoid big public areas that are heavy with dog traffic, but having vaccinated dogs over for playdates, enrolling in puppy socialization classes, etc would be bang on.

I was taking Finn into tons of non-pet stores and on long walks from an early age; my only parvo concern was pet stores, dog parks and the like, so we avoided those until he was vaccinated.
 

Doberluv

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#16
You may not worry now and care more about puppy socialization more, but once you have a puppy whose life is messed up or he dies because of parvo you will be much more cautious. I care much more about protecting Gunnar's life then if he meets new dogs.5 month old puppies can still be socialized just fine
The trouble is, if a pup has missed out on socialization during the critical period...(birth to 3-4 months) you can't socialize them "just fine" later. There's a window and it closes. That window is present in ALL animals. It varies between species. If animals could be socialized any time, no animal species would survive, evolve and pass on their "caution genes" because they wouldn't have the necessary fear and caution when it comes to predators and dangerous environments because they'd already be dead. They have to learn what is safe and what is dangerous, when to be curious and when to be cautious. Once they find they can get along without certain things in their life, they don't feel a need to. Those things left unknown to them will be things they leave out of their repertoire as dangerous and unnecessary. If they don't learn during that critical period how to bounce back from or get right over initial fears, they won't develop the ability of "bounce back." And that means that novel things will be avoided and feared and it's extremely difficult to over-come that.

It's absolutely imperative to get a new puppy out and about. To me, an under-socialized dog is an unstable, miserable thing that can never re-coupe that lost time.

Of course, pre-cautions should be made to avoid diseases like parvo. Ask around....have there been any cases of parvo in your area? Do like it's already been mentioned...avoid high traffic areas where a lot of dogs you don't know frequent, like dog parks and pet stores. But puppies do need to meet lots of people of all shapes, sizes, colors, carrying packages, umbrellas, joggers, bikers etc, other safe, friendly, healthy dogs, see all kinds of environments, machinery, objects, different ground surfaces, other animals, as well as grooming chores etc. The list goes on and on. Avoid frightening, over-whelming experiences and associate all with a good time.

Parvo is a horrible disease and there is a risk. The risk can be minimized by reasonable pre-cautions. But the risk of not socializing a puppy properly is more than a risk. It's a known. There is no question what it will do to a puppy who is sheltered from exposure to novel things. And the results of that are devestating too. A dog that is forever excessively fearful of every novel thing he encounters, who can't adjust to life is every bit as sad or more so, (imo) as a dog dying from parvo because he has to live with this psychological pain and inability to handle life for years to come.
 
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#17
Luckily I have 10 other dogs, and he has met with friends dogs and puppies who I know are vaccinated INDOORS. He got his last shot and ive begun leash training. He went in the backyard today and explored and had a good time.

Dogs can be socialized INDOORS, that seems like a much safer environment to socialize a puppy.
 

Dekka

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#18
Luckily I have 10 other dogs, and he has met with friends dogs and puppies who I know are vaccinated INDOORS. He got his last shot and ive begun leash training. He went in the backyard today and explored and had a good time.

Dogs can be socialized INDOORS, that seems like a much safer environment to socialize a puppy.
Not if you want them socialized to things that happen outside. I mean my house doesn't have people in wheel chairs, people with canes, all sorts of strangers, and non resident dogs(often) etc etc.

Parvo is bad. But its less of a risk for killing your dog than lack of socialization.
 
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#19
Things Buster hates (that is not entirely my fault at least)

Wheelchairs
Walkers (nearly took out my grandmother the first time she moved away from the sink with it)
Seeing people in Buses
Studded snow tire noise (that could be feeding off me though)
Strange dogs.
Children in strollers or on small bikes. (but he does like kids, but wheels make them evil).

If I get the puppy I want, it is going into a wagon, and we're going to move into the city for a couple months.
 

AllieMackie

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#20
Luckily I have 10 other dogs, and he has met with friends dogs and puppies who I know are vaccinated INDOORS. He got his last shot and ive begun leash training. He went in the backyard today and explored and had a good time.

Dogs can be socialized INDOORS, that seems like a much safer environment to socialize a puppy.
No, no they can't.

They won't meet people of all sizes, shapes, clothing and gender. They won't see cars and motorcycles speeding by. They won't get accustomed to the varying smells in differing environments. They won't hear 90% of the sounds or see 90% of the sights they will learn are not things to be scared of.

They'll play well with the household dogs and get used to household appliances. And I have to ask, how have you been housetraining this puppy if he can't even go outside?
 

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