House training problems

[iky]

Hi all,

I wonder if you remember me, it has been so long since I have posted on here. I had 2 Siberian huskys, Codi and Buddy (who sadly passed away from epilipcy). Codi is doing great, he has grown into a stunning dog.

However I am back with new questions. 3 weeks ago, my boyfriend got himself a Australian Cattle Dog. He is 1 year old, and we got him from a shelter. Note - Codi and Max are not in the same house and dont come into contact with each other at all.

The paper from the shelter about him says that he is a very hyper active dog, he doesnt like children and he is loud. Now that we have him, we find none of these things are issues, however, he keeps messing in the house.

We were told he is house broken. But for some reason he keeps messing in the house. Even after we just take him out, he will come in and rather mess in the house.

Does anyone have any kind of tips?!? This is becoming a real problem!

Thanx in advance for your help!

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

There are numerous topics and stickies about this in the training and puppy section.

 

[Renee750il]

IKY!!!!!!!! ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((BIGHUGS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I was looking at your pictures just the other day and missing you!

Got any photos of Codi to share?

I'm going through the same things with Tallulah, the little APBT who now lives with me. She tries, but she just doesn't seem to get it.

The Filas and Bimmer spoiled me . . . I didn't have to do any house training at ALL with Buffy, Kharma or Bimmer. Shiva was fine after sleeping in the laundry room a couple of nights.

 

[iky]

Renee! So good to hear from you! You have added to the family!

I will try and get photos of Codi. I miss him so much! He is in South Africa with my parents, and I would give anything to just play with him.

The problem we are having with Max that he seems to be doing it to be spitful. We will take him out, sometimes spend up to 2 hours outside with him, and he wont do anything. 5 minutes back in the house and he messes. The biggest issue is that he pees all over the floors, and we are worried it will damage the wood. We kept him in the little "laundry" room last night, but he was barking and crying all night.

Another thing I have picked up is he is very mouthy. He snaps and bites, and had broken skin afew times. I remember Codi had the same problem, but he just stopped after I told him no. Max doesnt stop.

What can we do? I dont know how much longer the boyfriend will deal with this and starting to think the best solution is to give the dog back to the shelter.

 

[SmexyPibble]

Praise him profusely and give him treats when he potties outside. When he starts going potty say, "Good potty, good potty", that way he knows the command 'potty' and you don't have to wait so long for him to go.

As far as him being mouthy, there are quite a few ways you can deal with it. A couple breeders told me to grab the tongue of the dog when he bites. Which has worked very, very well for their puppies and adult dogs.

Why would you give him back to the shelter? Because you're experiencing a few problems with a shelter dog? That sounds wrong to me. :/

 

[Renee750il]

Sounds like you need some input from Dr2Little . . . . I'll make sure she sees this thread.

Tallulah was doing the same thing - going outside and fooling around, not going, then within a couple of minutes of being back in the house she'd piddle I don't think, in her case, it was spite. She doesn't seem to have a mean or petty cell in her little body . . . she's just a Terrier and a SPAZ. She'd get out side and be so distracted she seemed to literally forget to go. She's getting better - but it's taking a long time and lots of treats given right after a successful outside potty.

Doc can give you the best advice - and she'll work with you finding what works for Max.

The snapping can be so frustrating, especially when you've got one as strong as an ACD.

I know how far you go with your dogs . . . I remember well how much you did for Buddy.

 

[iky]

I dont want to give him back at all! I think time, and being a little giving will sort this out, but my partner is very conserned about this, and frustrated.

We do the praise thing when he goes outside, but we just say "good boy" over and over, give him his treat and a lot of attention. Do you think I need to add more to that?

I am going to try this grabbing of the tongue thing. Maybe that will work.

Codi was just so easy, he learnt really quickly, but then again, I had him since he was 7 weeks old, Max is already a year and I think has had 2 previous owners.

Another question...shyness...how can I overcome that? I take him to the dog park often, and he plays a little, but tends to stay close to us, not really interacting with the other dogs.

 

[Renee750il]

Doc says she's going to log in on this later when she's back from her training sessions

You are gonna LOVE Doc!

And, once again, I am thrilled to see you, Iky. I've thought about you many, many times.

 

[Maxy24]

If you grabbed my tongue I'd bite you Just an FYI. Do you know why/when he bites? Is he playing, guarding or trying to bite you for doing something he does not like/is scary to him? What does his body language say (ear set, tail set, facial expression) fear or play? Does he growl or stiffen before he bites?

Dogs do not go to the bathroom out of spite, only humans could think of something like that, dogs potty because they have to. He may feel more comfortable going inside so you'll have to make sure the ONLY place he can go is outside. Does he only potty inside when you are not watching? If he does he may have been punished previously for going potty inside and now thinks he gets punished for going potty in front of you so he feels like he must hide.

Does he have a crate? if not I would get one. When you take him out, spend 10-15 minutes walking around the yard at a leisurely pace. Do not play with him or stand in one spot, walk around the yard and let him sniff to his hearts content. if after that time he does not go he should be brought inside and put in his crate for 10 minutes then straight back out. A dog *should* not soil their crate so he does not have the opportunity to go potty until he is outside. Repeat until he goes potty outside then he should get praise and treats. for some dogs other rewards such as being let off leash (if the yard is fenced) would be even better (dog does not get off leash until he potties, so he will hurry up and go). For instance my Aunt's dog get to come over my house after school. She used to take 20 minutes to go potty. BUT she was never allowed over until she went so she quickly figured out the faster she potties the faster she comes over and now it takes her 2 minutes to go when I have her. Before he goes no a walk have him potty in the yard, before you play a game outside have him potty, anything to make going potty outside a great thing.

Prevention is also important, until this is fixed he needs to be on leash all the time so you have a constant eye on him and can interrupt him and take him out when he is about to go. look for the signs he has to potty such as sniffing the floor, being unable to focus when given a command, pacing, circling, scratching the floor, restlessness/not settling down or anything else you think may be a sign he has to go out. Do not wait until it is too late, watch the dog like a hawk so you don't let him have the chance to have an accident.

Also make sure all accidents are cleaned with an enzymatic (that part is important) cleaner so the scent is completely removed even to a dog's nose. When you are not home or are asleep (unless he hold is over night, some dogs do) he should be crated so he cannot have an accident. If the shelter/rescue said he was potty trained he may just be having a relapse due to stress so the training should work quickly unless they were mistaken.

Good luck, be patient, and remember he does not know he should be going outside, he is probably stressed and confused, he has been passed around so much. Patience will do everyone a lot of good.

As for his shyness, is it only with other dogs or just in general he's shy? You may want to try using clicker training as your main method of training. This teaches dogs to be confident in their decisions and that making a wrong decision does not hurt or scare him and he does not have to sit there like a lump for fear of doing something wrong (many dogs who are punished when they do something wrong stop doing much of anything in case the thing they do gets them punished).

I would continue bringing him everywhere you can and making sure he has good interactions with other dogs, he may just not be into dogs that much or he may be somewhat scared, only socialization can help that (it is important you make sure he interacts with friendly dogs, if a dog is very forceful or aggressive with him it would be a big set back).

Tell us how things go, I hope he improves quickly for you!

 

[dr2little]

Hi iky!

First, Maxy24 - GREAT POST. (sorry in advance if I repeat anything, I had to skim the responses as I'm in a bit of a rush) Anyway, I have very little to add except to say that supervision is the key for housetraining. Often with these guys who have an unknown history, it could be that he was punished for going to the bathroom in front of someone. This is a mistake that people often make in an attempt to housetrain. They yell at a dog when he's making a mistake and instead of knowing that it for going in the house, they assume it was for going at all.

It could also be that he's come from a shelter where he had no option but to go in his indoor enclosure....or it could be none of the above. Whatever it is, the fact remains the same that you have to make sure that you set him up so that mistakes are not an option. SUCCESS IS THE ONLY OPTION

He should really be in one of only 4 places at any given time during the housetraining phase.
1) on a leash like Maxy24 said, outside for a potty break. Praise in the form of freedom and play is a great way to go (my favorite in fact) but some dogs need the immediate reward of a treat to make the message more clear and that's OK too.

2) if his is empty (pooped AND peed in the yard), then he can have supervised freedom. Never going out of your site, not for a second.

3) if you can't keep your attention completely focused on him, tether him to your waist. This is for both your ability to see/feel his signals that he needs to go out, and for him to know that he's connected to you so the he'll be unlikely to have a mistake.

4) if you can not do #'s 1 and 2 above, he must be confined to an area where he will not soil. Short periods in a crate where he won't be able to have an accident while unattended. You can pair crating with something really special so that he feels the crate is a 'happy' place. If you need more info. on crate training, let me know and I'll elaborate in another post.
If you have a shower or do anything that limits your ability to supervise him, he's in the crate. Night time - he should be crated.

Along with this, it's so important that you offer him the opportunity to go out with any change in activity AND that you teach him how to tell you that he needs to go. You can use the bell training method where you string a set of bells to the door and teach him to target the bells. Then every time prior to the door opening you go through the routine where he has to ring the bell for the door to open, of course this is paired with the verbal cue "Do you have to go outside"...or whatever cue you consistently use. This way, when you do give him more freedom, he'll know how to tell you when he has to go out.

As for the mouthing. It is important to know the context in which he mouths. If it's simply in play, when he puts his mouth on you immediately give him a verbal cue (no teeth - or no mouth) and withdrawl ALL attention for about 2 minutes. If you consistently give this predictable consequence for mouthing, immediately...he's see that his actions caused you to stop all play. If in fact it is social mouthing, then taking away attention will send the message loud and clear.

I have to add - please do not physically punish him as was suggested earlier in this thread. Lip pinching, tongue grabbing or any other physical stuff is not only unfair and in my opinion abusive, but will create bigger problems in the long run.

I'll pop back later - I'm just sure that I'm missing something

Good luck!!

 

[Pandemonium]

Our Collie, Kelly we had when I was a child (yes eons ago lol), had an issue with being "watched" while he did his business. He'd hold it forever if someone was closer than about 4 ft from him. He never peed or pooped in the house, he just walked around with his legs crossed! Finally figured out.. duh.. that he needed "private time", attached a looooong lead (he was 9 weeks old at the time), he'd find his place outside, we'd turn our backs, and he was fine! Just an idea.

 

[SmexyPibble]

If you grabbed my tongue I'd bite you

It really works well for the breeders, so I thought it might work well for her. Especially if she has a real stubborn dog.