Help me to understand....

corsomom

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#21
The reason I chose to buy a purebred from a breeder is I love the mastiff breeds, and decided on a corso. Everything I read about them fit into my lifestyle and I thought they were the perfect breed for me.One of the things I like having bought from a breeder is she is always there for me with any questions or problems I might have. If , god forbid, something happend to me she would take my dogs back in a heartbeat.If I was ever to get another dog I would rescue. I have nothing against responsible, ethical breeders. As far as all the rest of the people breeding for greed or they think the dog is cute or maybe they think it would be a fun experience, that is where the problem is, all the unwanted dogs in shelters.
 
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#22
I agree with ya, Buddy's Parents. I don't really see the point of getting a purebred dog from a breeder if it's just a pet. I will never, I mean NEVER purchase a dog from a breeder. I'd feel like a complete jerk when there are so many great dogs in shelters. I got my wonderful, perfect, amazing purebred lab as a rescue. She is the best dog in the world. I couldn't have found a better dog anywhere. She's just perfect. And I really love how rescue dogs seem to KNOW that they're lucky, and they really appreciate it. I also love mutts. You can come up with some really interesting dogs. For example, my terrier/Canaan Dog mix (Canaans are a rareish breed, however, as I learn more about them I am 100% POSITIVE she is part Canaan) is a really cool dog...she's reddish tan/white, with a curly tail, and floppy ears. She's got a mix of terrier personality and canaan personality. And she is the cutest thing on earth. Same with my BC/Shepherd cross.
 

BigDog2191

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#23
I love German shepherds so I got one from a reputable breeder. I'd much rather buy a GSD pup from a reputable breeder than a GSD pup from a shelter... but that's me.
 

DanL

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#24
Same here BigDog. My wife grew up with GSD's and I've always loved them, so we knew that when we had a big enough house and yard, we'd get one. There are too many traits the breed possesses that interested us. Yes, you could get those traits in a shelter dog or a mix breed but you'd never know. I know there are good dogs in shelters, but there are a lot of bad bred dogs in shelters too. With a GSD, I think you get 2 main categories of shelter dogs- 1 people who get working line, high drive dogs that demand a lot of training and attention, and the people can't or won't give that so the dog becomes uncontrollable so the owners get rid of it. 2, you get the poorly bred dogs that bite, have health issues, poor tempraments or other bad things that cause people to get rid of them. If you could luck out and get a working line dog that wasn't ruined, that's a route to consider. By looking at a dogs pedigree and it's lines titles, how the parents tempraments are, their health, you can greatly cut down on the odds of getting a dog with negative traits like fear aggression, health issues, temprament problems, etc. That is why we went to a breeder for our dog and so far he's lived up to and exceeded our expectations.
 
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#26
i didnt read all the responses so sorry if i repeat things that have been already said.

i think in the best case people breed because they love a certain breed and want to improve it and keep it healthy.

showing a dog is not just for your ego or to brag that you got a champion. it gives you a better understanding if your dog is a good example of the breed and is worth breeding and can contribute to the breed. its important that other people judge your dog because dont we all think OUR dog is the most beautiful and sweet?

i think its very important that there are responasble breeders, otherwise a breed can easily get ruined or extinct.

and breeders cant do their work without people who purchase their puppies.

if you get a purebred puppy you at least know his temperament to a certain degree. of course every individual temperament is different but for example you will know that a JRT needs a lot more exercise and is way more energetic then a pekinese and you can pick a breed that fits better to your lifestyle.

a mutt can have any temperament of the breeds involved so you never really know what you get. dont get me wrong. i love mutts! and i am happy if people consider to rescue before going to a breeder.

but i can understand why people,, including me get a purebred puppy even if they dont plan on showing or breeding.

i'd be very sad if those responsable breeders would stop breeding and some breeds would die. just imagine if there would be only mutts and no dalmation, no doberman, no golden retriever, no maltese or chihuahua or any breed anymore.

i love the variety of dog breeds that exsist these days and i am thankful for breeders who keep the breeds alive and healthy and for people who buy the purebreds so the breeder can continue with their work.
 
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RD

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#27
Purebreds are more predictable, basically. When you get a puppy of unknown origins, you really don't have a clue as to what the pup will mature into.

When I wanted a Border Collie, I wanted a fast, intelligent, friendly, energetic and fearless dog. I also needed a puppy, no exceptions. Now, I could have gone to a shelter and adopted a fluffy, black and white puppy but what would I have done if it matured and wanted to do nothing but lay around on the sofa and was so nervy or reactive that it had to be confined when new people or animals were around? I didn't want another pet dog, so I needed to be as sure as I could that I was getting a healthy, good-tempered dog that was capable of doing what I wanted him to.
I wanted a dog whose background I know very well. I wanted a dog from health tested parents, from healthy lines. I wanted a healthy dog with a sound temperament that would be a great worker.. and that's what I got!

My problem with getting a dog from a rescue or shelter is that they are all irresponsibly bred. I have NEVER seen a dog from a reputable breeder dumped at a shelter or in rescue. Now if I want a pet, I'll absolutely go to a shelter, but since my requirements for a dog are so strict, I am much better off buying a puppy from a responsible breeder.

On top of that, I enjoy the idea of showing/competing and eventually will consider breeding. Can't do that (and shouldn't, imo) with mixed breeds or shelter/rescue dogs. :)
 
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#28
With the exception of my first, Purdue, all of my Shepherds have been rescues. Bimmer is actually the first in awhile who wasn't already an adult dog.

But the Filas are here because they are working dogs. We actually do have them working as they have been bred to do for hundreds of years. They guard, they herd the cattle, we don't have jaguars, but we do have an overabundance of over-sized coyotes and Filas can handle the coyotes. In the process of having working dogs I've truly fallen in love with the Fila as a breed - they truly are unique creatures - and can honestly say that I will always try to have at least two of the Monsters. I am at the point now where I would gladly take in rescued Filas. I do feel that now I have enough experience and intuition to be a good judge of a rescue Fila's temperament and would have no fear of integrating an adult Fila into my life, but I won't put little Bimmer in that position. He's the top dog and I will not bring in an adult dog that outweighs him 2:1 to challenge him.
 

Buddy'sParents

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#29
RD said:
My problem with getting a dog from a rescue or shelter is that they are all irresponsibly bred.

I don't know about the rescues in your area, but many many rescues in my area and throughout the state of California have dogs that owners had to give up due to illnesses, loss of homes, deaths in the family, etc.. Not ALL rescues are BAD dogs... the dog my husband and I tried to adopt, a purebred Great Dane was a rescue from Hurricane Katrina.. is he a dog from irresponsible breeding? No.


Those of you that do show and/or breed... WHY? I respect the fact that you respect your breed and you know it well, etc.. but isn't there more to it than that? Seems like status to me....
 

Jynx

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#30
I have mixed breed dogs growing up, love them, however I was also raised with GSD's, and will always have them. I have bought from breeders, I have also rescued a couple.

Right now I have two GSD's, one rescued, one I bought from a breeder/friend, 2 Aussies, one rescue and one I bought from a breeder as well.

I like my pure bred dogs, The rescues were puppies when I got them, I knew the background. I LIKE knowing where my dogs are coming from. I'm looking for certain traits, characteristics of the breeds I adore.

I also show/work these 4 now, and at one point or another. I have no problem with anyone adopting from shelters/rescue/getting mixed breed dogs.
I just prefer my purebreds and most likely will always have them , be it bought or rescued.

Diane
 

RD

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#31
Buddy'sParents said:
I don't know about the rescues in your area, but many many rescues in my area and throughout the state of California have dogs that owners had to give up due to illnesses, loss of homes, deaths in the family, etc.. Not ALL rescues are BAD dogs... the dog my husband and I tried to adopt, a purebred Great Dane was a rescue from Hurricane Katrina.. is he a dog from irresponsible breeding? No.


Those of you that do show and/or breed... WHY? I respect the fact that you respect your breed and you know it well, etc.. but isn't there more to it than that? Seems like status to me....
If a breeder allows one of their dogs to wind up in a shelter, then yes they are very irresponsible. Irresponsibly bred dogs are often wonderful dogs, but I just don't want to risk it with a working dog.

I don't show/breed currently (still kicking around the on/off idea of finishing my Border Collie) but I eventually will because I love my breed and want to contribute to and improve it. I could go on for pages about why I think the breed needs more responsible breeders, but that'd wind up getting totally off topic and annoying to those who don't care about Border Collies :D
 

kiwifruit

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#32
I think you're trying to get a good answer from a breeder. The way you word your question, even though you do not mean to attack, there is a bit of negativity behind it.

A good breeder will never let their dogs wind up in any shelter. The dogs we see on the streets are the result of irresponsible breeders and owners. In a perfect world, all the breeders would be responsible, and we'd only have strong, healthy dogs of all different types and all with good homes. I don't think it's fair to criticize breeders as a whole, even though there may be a lot of bad ones out there, but there are a lot of good ones as well.

It's a personal preference, some people just want a particular breed and want to raise a puppy. Purebred puppies are hard to find at a shelter (why would they be there in the first place?), so people go to breeders because at least then you'll know the family history.

You're doing a great service to all dogs by adopting and being a responbile pet owner, but for all the irresponsible acts out there, not everyone is willing to give up what they want (either a purebred, or to breed) so that an abandoned dog could have a home.

I see it as being very similar to having your own children vs adopting. Some people see having your own children or buying a purebred as being a little selfish, some people see it as a freedom of choice. Either way, it shouldn't matter, as long as people take care of what is theirs. Personality has a lot to do with it, some people don't have time to raise a puppy, some do. Those who don't have time to get up twice a night, should adopt an older dog. Those who want a puppy and who have children that are responbile, a puppy with a good family history could be a very good thing in that type of family setting.
 

bubbatd

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#33
I relate to Kase... having chosen a Golden Retriever as breed that filled our bill 60 years ago, I've stuck with it. I bred to keep our lines going and to fill requests of those who wanted one of my pups. Don't forget, many more people own dogs than 20 years ago .! When Chip is gone I will rescue... I don't need a puppy ( which breaks my heart ! ) ....... and it may not be a Golden. Just a big, fuzzy, loveable 4 legger who can look into my souls as I can look into his.
 

Buddy'sParents

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#34
kiwifruit said:
I think you're trying to get a good answer from a breeder. The way you word your question, even though you do not mean to attack, there is a bit of negativity behind it.

Maybe because there are lots of people telling me why they buy certain breeds but breeders aren't telling me why they breed and people who show aren't telling me why. I don't think there is any negativity behind my questions because I just want to know and to maybe understand a little bit better.

The act of breeding and showing a dog seems selfish to me, but that's just my opinion and is why I wanted to ask people.. so that they could tell me why they do these things so that, in turn, I could understand. It's really an innocent question, I would assume people wouldn't have a hard time answering.

I'm not trying to be negative, so if I come across that way, I do apologize.
 

IliamnasQuest

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#35
QUOTE: "Those of you that do show and/or breed... WHY? I respect the fact that you respect your breed and you know it well, etc.. but isn't there more to it than that? Seems like status to me...."

Well, I show and I am likely to breed one of my dogs, so I'll do the best I can to answer your question.

Even though you say you're not trying to cause any hard feelings, it's obvious in your posts that you don't think people should breed or show. Well, your first post also mentioned that you want to get a Great Dane. Let's go with that first.

The reason there IS a breed called "Great Dane" is because people bred specifically for certain traits that made the breed. Without breeders, you would have nothing but a mish-mash of dogs with no particular traits to follow. You would never know what you're getting. Now, since there are so many dogs in shelters I suppose all the good breeders could stop breeding - and soon all we would have is poor quality "purebred" dogs and a bunch of mixes - all produced through irresponsible breedings that should not have taken place.

The reason the shelters are all so full is not because of the responsible breeders. It's because there are people out there allowing or encouraging their dogs to breed, often indiscriminately. It seems a bit wrong to fault the responsible breeders - the ones who are trying to keep a breed pure with the traits it was originally bred to have - because the shelters are full of dogs. In fact, a responsible breeder has homes for the puppies before the breeding even takes place.

You could even look at it from the other angle - if everyone would buy from a responsible breeder, then maybe all those puppy millers and backyard irresponsible breeders would give up breeding. But instead, people buy the puppies from people who are in it just for the money, or they save the dogs that these irresponsible breeders dump (and therefor giving those byb and puppymillers the opportunity to just breed more).

As far as showing goes .. for many people, it's a hobby and something that they enjoy doing. Some people make quilts, some people fly model airplanes, some people show dogs. It can be a lot of fun and it's time that you can spend with your dog. And for me, it was also a way to show my qualifications as a trainer. I work with pet people with their dogs, and they look at all the titles my dogs have earned and it gives me credence in their eyes. They come to the shows and see my dogs in obedience or agility and they are comfortable in knowing that I do have some knowledge about what I'm doing. There's certainly nothing wrong with that.

I know there are people out there who think that training a dog is wrong - that dogs should be free spirits and not have to do what they're told. Well, I think that is a very irresponsible way to have a dog and dangerous too. So I train my dogs, I show my dogs and I work towards a greater understanding of my dogs in part because I love doing it and in part because it allows me to help others.

I may breed my youngest chow, when she is of age and if she passes all the tests. I will do it because she is a very good representative of the breed. She's got a great temperament, she's built well, she's athletic and intelligent and has a zest for life. She IS the chow that should be out there in the public - and yet there are lots of people breeding chows with poor temperaments .. chows that will likely end up in shelters with aggression problems and may even be destroyed. Just because others are doing it wrong doesn't mean that those of us who want to do it right should stop. If we don't continue, then the breed will fail.

Then, instead of you looking for a Great Dane .. you'll just be looking for a big leggy dog - because there will no longer BE any Great Danes or chows or GSD's.

We are not selfish. The selfish ones are the ones producing all those poor quality "purebreds" and mixed breeds that end up in shelters.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
 

Doberluv

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#37
but breeders aren't telling me why they breed and people who show aren't telling me why
I'm not a breeder, but I think I can answer your question. Reputable breeders do genetic health testing on their dogs. This includes (I'll use a Doberman for example) testing for inheritable diseases such as Von Willebrands Disease, (a bleeding disorder) and they check the pedegrees (histories) of the lines they are breeding from for longevity, what dogs died of and at what age....cancer, dilated cardiomyopathy, Cervical Vertebral Instability (Wobbler's syndrome). They look at ancestor's temperament and don't breed from any dog who had a temperament problem. They weed those out. They look at conformation, the way the dog is put together. Does it adhere to the written standard of the breed club? There has to be a standard or the breed would become mish mash. Particular traits must be watched for and if they come out with too many faults, they should not be bred because the shape, size, color, temperament and all kinds of things will become washed out if substandard dogs are bred. Who determines if someone's dog meets the breed standard? Not everyone is expert at recognizing a 45 degree angle from the shoulder blade or a strong underjaw or a correct top line or the angles/incline of the head matching the angle of the muzzle, in the case of a Dobe. A judge determines this in a show. That is what conformation shows are for. If a dog receives titles, it means the dog meets the standards set forth and judged by an expert in that breed. It may not always be perfect, but it's the only thing there is as far as order goes.

Why do people show their working dogs in obedience, Schutzhund, agility? Becasue it's fun to compete with other fanciers. Fun. Getting prizes or titles shows that the dog is capable of doing what he was bred to do. A Doberman, for instance must be agile, quick, atheletic, fearless, obedient, have correct temperament. These shows with these classes demonstrate a correct dog who conforms to the standard.

It is these dogs who are considered worthy of being bred.

Because someone has a "cute" dog who has pretty, fluffy fur and is sweet, and there's a neighbor with a cute, fluffy dog, it does not validate breeding them. That's irresponsible and that's the kind of people who are contributing strongly to the over population problem, not reputable breeders. The numbers are infentesimal of reputable breeder's output of puppies compared to irresponsible dog owners who are clueless, who breed mix breed dogs on purpose or because they're too irresponsible to fix their dogs. The number of homeless dogs and the number of purebred dogs bred by reputable, responsible breeders cannot even be mentioned in the same breath. It's a ridiculous comparrison.

Why do people breed purebred dogs? You'll have to do some reading, because this post is already too long. But suffice it to say, that selective breeding is done to bring out and exentuate certain traits which will serve mankind in certain jobs or activities. Hunting dogs have attributes that a Doberman may not have. Bloodhounds excell at finding lost people. GSD's excell at police work and many other things. Dobermans excell at protecting their owners. Chihuahuas excell at being the smallest dog in the worldfor people who want a companion who doesn't weigh more than 6 LBs.

Sure there are lots of great dogs in shelters and I applaud anyone who adopts one. I probably will again one day. I had a shelter dog once. But I've had purebreds from breeders for quite a while. I was looking for specific traits, as RD described in her post. I wanted a dog with exceptional obedience aptitude, who tended to stay glued to his owner, who is highly intelligent, who is atheletic and good at agility, whose personality is indescribably lunatic, goof ball, big sense of humor. I wanted as a fringe benefit a dog who is known to be protective of his owner. I love the looks of a Doberman, short hair, not much mess, handsome. He's a pleasure to look at.

Dogs were selectively bred and domesticated to suit mankind. And in turn, they were provided for too and shared companionship, we both being a specie who forms strong social bonds. If mankind hadn't been selfish and created these dogs through artificial selective breeding (although natural selection played into it too) we would not have the domestic dog at all.

So, go with it.

LOL...we must have all been typing away at the same time.

Good post Melanie.
 

bubbatd

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#39
I believe I stated why I bred ! Also with all my health checks and insistence of the same for the sire or dam , we produced quality pups.
 

wolfsoul

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#40
I show/am going to breed my dog.

I show because it's TONS of fun. It's an awesome hobby. I get to meet lots of people and other dogs, I get to share stories with other dog owners, I get to enter raffles and buy cool things you don't normally find in stores. It's great socialisation for my dog, it's a healthy hobby for me (I have Borderline Personality Disorder and any hobby is an extremely healthy outlet for me). People think showing is dumb because it's a beauty contests, and beauty contests are becoming less appealing to today's society. Well to me, it's not just a beauty contest. It's just a hobby that I enjoy doing. I enjoy travelling to shows and getting to be there all day with my dog and meeting people that enjoy the same things I do.

My dog will be bred because she is an excellent representation of her breed and she can go on to better her breed. If people stopped breeding and all we had left were shelter dogs, once the shelter dogs were all adopted out, where would we start from? All we'd have left are dogs from unknown/unhealthy/mixed lines of completely unknown heritage. It is very rare that a dog from a reputable breeder ends up in a shelter, and it only does so without that breeder's knowing. It's the BYBs and puppy mills that need to stop breeding. They are the problem, not the reputable breeders.

I like to have a purebred dog, not just because I show, but because I do alot of other dog sports as well (once again, not because I'm vain, but because they are hobbies). Obviously you can't have a 100% guarantee that the dog you are getting is going to be healthy and well-tempered, but you have a higher chance for sure. I take advantage of that hightened chance. I want a dog that has a better possibility of being able to do agility and not have it's hip pop out of joint. I want a dog that has a better possiblity of being able to herd a sheep without killing it. I want a dog that has a better possibility of dock diving and not drowning; of catching a frisbee and not breaking an elbow; of doing schutzhund and not falling over from respiratory problems, etc etc etc. If it is selfish to have a hobby and a passion and something to dedicate your life to and be excited about, than I am guilty of being selfish. I have had way too many shelter/ BYB dogs that have died due to terrible health problems and I'd like to give myself time before doing it again. For now, I foster and adopt out animals myself. Lots of people don't see that as "giving back" because of the fact that my dog will be bred, but atleast I am doing something. I may show and I may breed but I do it responsibly and I care about animals as much as anyone.
 

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