Foster is crazy!

tara

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I've started doing some "fungility" with Foster at home, I don't think anytime in the near future he will actually be competing, but for fun we have one of those really cheap aglity starter kits but hey, it gets the job done! He's doing pretty well, but he is TOO food motivated. When I try to guide him through the weave poles, he doesn't watch where he's going,he just watches my hand (even if there is NO treat in it, because he knows that treats come from my pocket) and runs STRAIGHT through the poles, and he has broken 2 already because he runs straight into them, not around them. the tunnel is fine, it's his favourite because it's so easy. But the jump. Oh boy..most times he does it properly, but sometimes it's like he will do anything BUT jump over it for the treat. He'll go around sometimes, he'll go under it, even if it is 5 inches off the ground, he still wants to go UNDER IT! It's really funy to watch him crawl under it though.. and sometimes he just runs straight through the bar. The only time he'll go over the jumpw with 100% success is right after coming out of the tunnel...? Any suggestions at all will be greatly appreciated!
 

Owly

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Hi
I think that you should try to replace food with praise.When he does something right at first give him treats but also praise him.Then gradually try to replace treats with praise.It is not a short process because the dog needs to know that the praise is as good as the treat.At the end you will not need to give him treats,just praise.But keep giving him treats too untill he learned well to complete the agility course.And as for the jump.Try not to stay in front of the dog when he jumps but run near your dog and move your hand over the obstacle for the dog to see what is exactly what you expect from him and say the command you use.And if he tries to crawl under it or whatever he does,get back and try it again.It may be funny to watch the dog crawling under the obstacle,but this way he will be confused and will not know what you expect from him.Good luck
 

Doberluv

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Personally, I'd stick with the treats. It's what he LOVES and that's what you want to use to keep him motivated. When you take him through the weaves, slow down and hold your hand right in front of his nose and go very slowly, luring him. If he's running into them, you must be holding your hand too high or too far away from the poles. He shouldn't be running at all yet until he's got the idea of alternating the poles. So just walk through at a snails pace at first. Once he's going through slowly, methodically and getting all the weaves, stop luring with your hand in front of his nose and make your hand signal more subtle. Keep guiding him if needed for a while. By this time, he should know that he's to alternate every pole. Reward him often but stay low key. Gradually make your hand signal lighter, more subtle. Use a cue word, "go weave" or "weave" at the beginning of the exercise. And "yessss" as he's doing it right. If he misses one, stop and go back to the beginning. You can use a no reward marker, like...."nah"....no anger, but just to tell him, "nah...that wasn't it. Try this." But don't say it in a way that can discourage him at all. You want this to be nothing but fun. When he's good at this stage, you can then get a little behind him and "push" him through. Only when he's doing this well with you behind and with subtle hand signals should you start encouraging him to speed up.

Use a short piece of leash...a tab about 8" long if you need it to guide him....at first. Go through a few poles and pop him a (tiny, soft) treat before he has a chance to mess up. If he messes up, don't reward. Don't use any negative word or any type of punishment with this. Start over. Try to keep it just a tad lower key if you think he's getting too excited to slow down. You want to get the accuracy first, then later, the speed.

With the jumps...again, I think you might be trying to go too fast, maybe too high. Go along next to him and use your leash tab to guide him over. Then when he's jumping reliably and well, start getting a little behind him and "push" (herd) him from the rear. Use a marker word if you're not using a clicker. Everytime he does something right, use this word and then treat. You can prime him to this word you use by practicing with something he already knows well, like sit. Or...you can just say the word, treat, say the word, treat over and over in different places, different contexts. Anytime you use this word you must follow with a treat, even if you make a mistake and don't mean to say it. I use "yesssss!" When the dog jumps, while he's in mid air, "yessss!" and when he lands, treat. Just do one jump at first and when he gets it, add another. Start with them fairly low and guide him over.

I think your problems are probably coming from going too fast and trying to do too much at first. Break things down into parts and master the small steps first before going on. There are always parts to everything. In this stuff, there's accuracy and speed and then there are finer points yet...more bend in the body when weaving etc. Don't try to get speed before you get the accuracy down. One thing at a time.
 
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tara

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#4
The thing is, we DO go really slow. I go really slow through the weave poles, but he gets so eager to get the treat HE starts getting all excited and tries to speed up, and that's when he knocks them over. I also keep my hand right infront of his nose. I am doing exactly what you suggested, Doberluv, for the jump. and it is only about 4-5 inches off the ground, and he can walk over it easily, so that can't be too high, can it? I work on the jump with him so that we stop when he is starting to get a little frustrated, that's when I send him through the tunnel, then he's all confident again. Well, we'll keep trying, and I'll update on his progress!
 

Brattina88

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#5
For the jump you might want to rewind and teach him what the word "jump" - or whatever word you use - means.

Set up a board, log, jump whatever against your house or something so he can not go around it. Put him in a sit stay in front of the jump, but not too close to where he needs to spring straight up and over. Go to the other side of the jump and call him, urge him to come to you and plug in your word for "jump." He needs to understand what jump means before you can apply it successfully to agility... try focusing on one obstacle at a time. Ex. wait unil he's successful at jumping before moving onto the weave polls...

:) HTH
 

Doberluv

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How big is your dog? What breed? Is that her in the avatar? Maybe the jump is too low. LOL. Maybe she can't see it. (?) How about this: Does she like to fetch? Is there a favorite toy that she doesn't get all the time that you could use for this? You could try tossing it over the jump and see if she'll go over "go jump" to get it. Make it like a game...get her a little bit revved so she may feel more enthusiastic to jump.

With the weaves, what about if you put the treats in a fanny pack zipped up and don't hold any in your hand. If he makes it through two poles without knocking them down, click and treat...or say, "yesssss!" enthusiastically and then treat. Let him know that when he goes through nicely, he gets rewarded and when he gets too wound up and knocks them down, he doesn't get any reward. Patience. How long have you been doing this with him? The weaves are generally the hardest thing for the dogs. 5 or 10 minutes at a time is plenty. Don't worry about getting it all at once. You don't want him to go sour on you. It takes time. Just have fun and act like it's not a big deal. I think it will come in time.

Someone else may have a better idea how to do the weave poles. There are newer ways I think which I haven't learned. This is just how I taught Lyric.
 

tara

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Foster is 21" at the withers, but I think you may be right Doberluv, that he can't see it, afterall, it is really skinny and light yellow, which sort of blends in with the surroundings. I want to try to make it a lot bigger and more noticable. He will jump over it most of the time, even when it's fairly high, but not unless there is a treat or something else really good that he knows he will get at the end, that I show him at the beginning, so I will need to get him to work for praise too. I think for now we will just work on the jump (and working for praise), and put the weave poles away for a while, and newly introduce them after he has the jump down pat. He does know what jump means though, because I can sit on the floor and hold up my legs and say "Foster, jump!" and he'll jump right over. We'll keep working on it! I'll keep updates once he starts to get more consistent. Thanks everyone for the tips and such!
 

Doberluv

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He does know what jump means though, because I can sit on the floor and hold up my legs and say "Foster, jump!" and he'll jump right over
He knows what jump means in that context....over your legs, but does he know what jump means when you're asking him to jump over the jump equipment you have outside in the yard? You see, dogs don't generalize very well. So when a dog can do something in one place or in one type of situation, it can be completely foreign to him in another. Start with baby steps....reward for aproximations of the final skill you want. Then up the ante and don't reward for what he did last time. Ask for more, a little higher, a little closer...whatever the case may be and reward for that improvement. Then again, withhold. Ask for more. He'll try harder because he wants the reward. He'll figure that he got a reward before. "Now why am I not getting it this time. I'll try harder. Maybe I should go higher." He will very likely get it right if you shape the behavior this way. When he gets it really good, reward big time, extra treats. You don't have to get the entire behavior perfect on one shot.



He will jump over it most of the time, even when it's fairly high, but not unless there is a treat or something else really good that he knows he will get at the end, that I show him at the beginning, so I will need to get him to work for praise too.
Why wouldn't you want to give him something really good that he likes? Would you want to work for someone who didn't give you something you really like? LOL. Give him a good "paycheck" for doing a good job. That's how dogs learn. It's how we all tend to want to repeat something again and again. The trick here is not to be bribing him (showing him the treat first) but to be rewarding him. (giving him the treat when he does what you ask him) But he has to know what you mean first. You can help him over once or twice...keep him on a leash so he can't go around it. Encourage him, get him a little playful and he'll do it. If he does it even once, even if it's sloppy or he doesn't clear the jump, reward him with what HE likes....Use a high value treat. Later....down the road when he's jumping every time, you can switch to more random treating....not every single time. This will make it so he will do things even if you don't have a treat every time. That's because he knows he has gotten a treat before and so he'll try again several times. He'll even try harder. It strengthens behavior to treat randomly. But you don't skip treats while he's still learning a skill. He needs that reinforcement every time in order to let him know that what he's doing is what you want. At this point, he's still guessing and until he's had a lot of reinforcements (treats) he's going to still be guessing what behavior you mean. That's because there are other behaviors that he's doing at the same time. You may not notice them, but he's doing something else. You're focused on the jump. You know good and well that is what you're working on. But he doesn't. He may be standing with one foot forward. Or he may be looking at something. He may be running toward the outside of the jump. He doesn't know for sure what you mean yet. That's why a high value reward, a super yummy treat within a second or two of doing the skill needs to be given asap when he performs.

Praise is always good, but he probably gets lots of attention and praise anyhow, all the time. So it's much more effective to give him something out of this world good plus some praise. If you want him to try hard and learn, find what he likes the best and reward him with that. Don't worry about him only working for treats. That comes later when you start using a variable reward schedule.
 

tara

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#9
we've been working on the jump, and so far so good! He goes over at least 75% of the time so far. Now he jumps over random things in the house, like foot stools lol. I think he just likes jumping over things. When he was 10 weeks old we had him confined to the kitchen, and we had to have a 5 foot tall gate or else he would climb/jump over. I was so worried for his little puppy joints! But now that he's old enough I'm happy I can let him jump over things.
 

Doberluv

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Good. It sounds like he's coming along. Lyric loves to jump over things too. Sometimes when we're out in the woods, he'll see a log across the trail and he'll go flying over it and I'll talk in a happy, excited voice and he'll turn and jump over it again and then back again. It's like it's just such a thrill. He loves the tunnel too and once in a while, he'll go through and turn and go back the other way when he's suppose to be continuing on the course. LOL. It makes everyone in the class laugh. We just do it for fun too, not competition. (thank goodness.) LOL.
 

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