Fertility Treatments....

[sillysally]

I noticed from other threads that a lot of people on here seem to have issues with fertility treatments. I have no desire for kids now and am currently putting energy into *not* getting pregnant, but I know people who have used them.

What is everyone's' thoughts on them--do you agree with them? Why or why not?

For myself, I don't know that I could even make a decision as to whether I'd do it or not. I haven't wanted a baby of my own more than anything else in the world, so I couldn't say what I would do should I begin to feel that way. I do think that this is an area where we need to pay very close attention to ethics--it seems like things could get out of hand quickly....

 

[Paige]

Personally, no. Not interested. Only because I dont want children. Beyond that go to town. If you want to get pregnant that badly and you've exhausted other options, don't want to go another route, <insert other reason here> then I say do what you will. It's none of my business what you choose to do with your body.

 

[BostonBanker]

I think it's probably easy to judge being someone who doesn't want children (like myself), but I think there should be some concern about the number of people using various fertility treatments. Are we slowly creating a species that will become less fertile over time? I mean, theoretically, if we had an animal that was extremely difficult to get pregnant, one would/should be inclined to stop trying to breed the animal - that would be a genetic trait you wouldn't want to continue into the next generation.

But as I said, it's probably too easy for me to say that, since I haven't been in a position of wanting a child and not being able to have one conventionally. Plus I'm sure there are tons of non-genetic reasons that people can't have children on their own.

But yes, it does concern me a bit from the 'what if' standpoint.

 

[Fran27]

I hope they're doing some study about it at some point... I'd be curious to see if babies born from fertility treatments are more likely to have fertility issues themselves or not... It's hard to tell so far if it's genetic or an environment issue...

Truth is, if our IVF had worked, and our kids had fertility issues down the road, I would probably have felt like crap about it. But until we know more, I don't really have an opinion on the subject... although I know how hard it is to want kids and not be able to have them.

 

[bubbatd]

Back when and we were " trying " it was either success or adoption . First Tom's sperms were tested ( scant and slow ) and then my tubes were blown . ( Ouch! ) Luckily we conceived 3 times when I felt trying was the last thing I wanted to do .... major cramps !

 

[zoe08]

I think if you haven't been in the situation it is pretty hard to decide what you would really do.

I had no idea how much I wanted to carry a baby until I lost 2. I used to think I would want to adopt if I couldn't have/carry my own naturally. But now I think that I would definitely have wanted to try IVF first.

I still think about possibly adopting in the future, but for many reasons posted in the other thread, it probably will not be possible. It is way too expensive, and such a hard process.

My husband however, would prefer to adopt over going through fertility treatments, so I am really not sure what we would have done.

HOWEVER, I do think there should be requirements/limits set on fertility treatments. I definitely don't think more than 2 embryos should be implanted at one time. And I don't think that you should have it done over and over til you have 6-15 kids (and ESPECIALLY not if you are on ANY kind of government aid). And you should really NEED it. Not because you want to pick girl or boy embryos. Or ones that have a higher chance of having blonde hair/blue eyes. That may be another thread all together, but I saw a family who had 4 girls naturally, but they still wanted a boy. So they went through IVF just so that they could have a boy (they ended up with twin boys). I think if you want a boy THAT bad after conceiving 4 girls naturally, then you should adopt.

This is kind of what I would like to do if I were to have 2 boys. Then I would maybe like to adopt a little girl in the future. But I would never go to IVF just so I can have a girl or boy. I don't agree with "designer" babies.

 

[Lilavati]

I don't particularly approve of fertility treatments, but:

1) I have never despirately wanted to get pregnant
2) It really isn't my business, and I believe that people have the right to have their own children if they wish.

That said, no, I don't really approve. Not because the kids might have issues themselves (whenever you have your own children they may have your genetic problems, and everyone has genetic problems.) but for several reasons.

One, there are the risks, such as multiple pregancies, low birth weight, and there is a small amount of evidence that the children may not be as healthy.

Two, with IVF, more embryos are created than can be used. I don't really have a problem with using them for reseach (or giving them to someone else), but I also don't like the idea of creating "disposable" life.

Three, there are millions of children that need parents. Adoption is expensive, though it is less so if you are willing to settle on a child other than a baby. Appearently, its also easier to adopt a black child than a white one.

Four, it is very expensive, insurance doesn't always pay (and if it does, then other people with than insurance are subsidizing the treatment in their rates . . . perhaps ok with cheaper options, but with the expensive ones I wonder if that's quite right). Moreover, it doesn't always work, and often results in heartbreak when it doesn't.

However, not particularly approving doesn't mean that I don't like people who do IVF, or that I think it should be banned. I just don't think its an especially good idea, and that people should think very carefully about doing it.

That said, I return to my statement above. I have never wanted to be pregant, and I don't think its my business. I will also say that if I was informed tomorrow that I needed medical treatment that would destroy my ovaries, I would very seriously consider banking eggs. I don't know if I would, I don't know if I did if I would use them. But I'd be strongly tempted to close that door.

Now, as for the octotuplet's mom, I think that's different . . . six children, all by IVF. No husband. From the interview with her mother, family issues. Eight embryos implanted. However despirately she wanted kids, she already had six of them . . . I think she had shown spectacularly bad judgement.

 

[mrose_s]

It easy for me to believe what I believe because I have no real desire to have a child.

I wouldn't use fertility treatment. For the reason BostonBanker stated, and because I think we have more than enough humans on this planet, the more sicknesses we cure and the more babies we have, the more we overpopulate the planet.

If I ever do decide to have a child, it will be 100% natural or adoption.

 

[boneyjean]

We tried to get pregnant for over 2 years on our own. I did numerous things on my own to try to predict ovulation but I have a somewhat irregular cycle and it obviously took awhile. At 1 year my Dr gave me the name of a fertility clinic and a sample cup but I REALLY wanted it to happen naturally for a lot of reasons so we kept trying. I called the fertility clinic finally on a Friday afternoon to set up an appt just to do the basic testing to see if either of us even had a fertility issue but knew that if we were both deemed OK we would keep trying on our own. I suppose if there was something wrong we would have looked into IVF but we never got there b/c the day after I called I FINALLY got a positive test.

We got really lucky but there are a lot of women who can't get pregnant on their own for various reasons. IVF is super expensive and not always succesful so I don't think multiples should necessarily be avoided but I do think it should be regulated both before and after the IVF is done. Adopting is a wonderful thing but it can be just as difficult as conceiving. Plus, carrying you child is something so incredibly special and wonderful as is child birth. It isn't something you could ever understand until you have done it and some women have a very strong desire to do it and should be given the options to have a best chance to do that if the circumstances are right and she so desires although there are no guarantees. I will leave my opinion at that.

 

[HoundedByHounds]

If I couldn't have had kids, I'd likely adopt. Of course this question is not as easy to answer, since I cannot answer from the perspective of "never had kids"..I have had them, without any major issue....who KNOWS how I might have reacted if I couldn't have?

 

[Saintgirl]

I am using fertility treatments. Maybe I shouldn't respond to this because I will take this personally, even though I shouldn't. (For the record, when I say YOU it does not mean a specific person, just a general you.)

It is easy for people who have no interest in ever having children to say that they do not agree with treatments. It is easy for teenage girls to say they do not agree with it when they are far from the place in their lives when family planning is taking place. It is easy for mothers with their own biological children to say they do not agree. In short, it is so easy for FERTILE women to look down on fertility treatments. And I say, lucky for you that you will never know what it is like.

As for genetic issues and fertility treatments, yes PCOS and endometriosis are genetically linked. I have thought long and hard about this. I can pass these traits on to my children, and yet here I am TTC. My husband and I are otherwise healthy. Is it fair that I risk this passing this on, no it isn't. I really hope that my girls (if I have girls) do not get these issues. And it will really hurt if they do. But how many women have children under optimal circumstances? Financially we are more than capable of providing for our children. We have great health. We have a loving and stable relationship to offer a family. We can say that we would not condone breeding practises of dogs where there are genetic issues, however we would not condone the breeding of dogs in homes that were not financially able to provide for them. So I ask, where do we draw the line?

One, there are the risks, such as multiple pregancies, low birth weight, and there is a small amount of evidence that the children may not be as healthy.

There are many forms of fertility treatments besides IVF. I am taking metformin for PCOS. I will be starting clomid in the next month if we are still TTC. Metformin, yes the same drug that is used for diabetics, is used to treat PCOS. It helps with getting hormone levels in check and once hormone levels are normal regualr menses and ovulation can occur. I am in no higher category of risk in having multiples, lower birth rate, etc. These drugs regualte my body making it normal. No different than if the metformin was working on a diabetic to make their sugar levels normal, in me it prevents insulin resistance and lowers certain levels of hormones. Making my reproductive hormones run at a normal level.

Now, clomid can run the risk of multiples. Clomid stimulates ovulation. A woman pregnant with multiples whether naturally or with the help of clomid run risks. Multiple pregancies are harder with risks of lower birth weights, etc. But this is a fact of multiples. Yes, IVF and several other procedures that are more invasive have higher risks of multiples. But if I personally have to resort to IVF I do want to have twins, because I will never put myself through this again.

Yes, there are millions of children that need to be adopted. So why should only those with fertiltiy problems be made to feel guilty about this. Why is this our burden? Are fertile couples exempt from having to worry about this problem that should be a world wide concern? Are fertile couples able to turn a blind eye because they can easily have their own children and not have to face how they will have a family? Yes, orphans around the world are a problem that the world has to embrace and find a resolution for. But let's not leave this problem to the infertile. My husband and I had decided long before our fertilty issues became a problem thatwe would like a biological child and one adopted. Now, I ask all the fertile men and women, will you adopt instead of adding to the over population of the world?

Now people keep using the excuse that fertilty treatments are so expensive as a reason that they are against them. What concern of this is yours??? You are not paying for my treatments. I am using my hard earned cash and savings. I am not asking for a hand out from you? I do not judge that perhaps you spent a little more on your nice car when you could have settled for an economy car that would have costs $10000 less. Or your home that really didn't need to be so big, or that vacation you took last year. Don't say that fertility treatments are wrong because they are expensive, don't buy them if you don't want them. But just because you think they are pricey, why should I not have the option. And FYI, IVF here in Nova Scotia is only $4950, way cheaper than the American prices I keep seeing being posted.

Fertility treatments are not a walk in the park. They are hard on the body both physically and emotionally. You do not wake up on day and decide out of the blue that you want to start treatment. It is a tough decision. It is a long road with many tough obstacles to over come. In the end, no child may ever come of it. Wanting to have a biological child is a primitive urge. Sure, some woman don't feel it, but others do.

To each their own I guess. We all have our own opinions, and we are entitled to them. What bothers me is that how does responsible fertility treatments even effect the general public? Why do people care if I chose to under go these procedures?

 

[tessa_s212]

It is not something that I personally agree with, or would ever personally do. If others want to do it, I'm not going to try to tell them they shouldn't.. I just don't agree with it personally. Even before I became pregnant, I've always wanted to adopt. If I ever found that I could not have children of my own, fertility treatments wouldn't even be a question in my mind. I'd begin exploring the ability to foster children, adopt my own, or continue working somehow with troubled kids in need.

I always knew Dustin wanted one of his own, and though we'd planned for that baby at a later date, it came a bit early. This will probably my first and last baby. I'll likely never have another of my own from my own body again. If we want another, I want to either foster or adopt. There is no point in me populating the earth any more when I could adopt an older child that would grow up in the system and never have a family of his/her own.

My sister takes on a bit more extreme view. She is not a baby person.. not even all that much of a kid person. If she wants children, she plans on adopting older kids or teenagers in the system. She is mostly of the mindset that less people (fertile or not) should be so selfishly producing more kids when there are so many needing homes.

 

[Tortilla]

It's not something that I can relate to (I'm seventeen and really have no desire for kids... ever), so I really don't have much of an opinion. If others want to use fertility treatments, then more power to them. Who am I to judge?

 

[noludoru]

I ditto what Paige said.

Basically - it's your body and who am I to judge what you do with it? I've never wanted to be pregnant and I never will, so I can't even imagine how that must feel.

 

[zoe08]

Yes, there are millions of children that need to be adopted. So why should only those with fertiltiy problems be made to feel guilty about this. Why is this our burden? Are fertile couples exempt from having to worry about this problem that should be a world wide concern? Are fertile couples able to turn a blind eye because they can easily have their own children and not have to face how they will have a family? Yes, orphans around the world are a problem that the world has to embrace and find a resolution for. But let's not leave this problem to the infertile. My husband and I had decided long before our fertility issues became a problem that we would like a biological child and one adopted. Now, I ask all the fertile men and women, will you adopt instead of adding to the over population of the world?

This is a very good point, one that I think should be read again.

 

[mojo-rizin]

First and foremost, I should mention that I am an embryologist, so IVF is what I do. I also supervise the clinical laboratory, so I see all of the other fertility treatments as well.

My husband and I had trouble conceiving. I don't have PCOS, but I just didn't ovulate regularly. I ended up taking Clomid alone, and then the second cycle Clomid and Metformin (the cycle I got pregnant). However, I think that if Clomid hadn't worked, I wouldn't have pursued further treatment. For one, I wanted children, but I wouldn't have been completely devestated if I couldn't have them. Two, I felt like it would have been a conflict of interest to pursue fertility treatment at my clinic, and would never have given business to the competition.

With that being said, I see the couples who come into the clinic every single day completely heartbroken that they are unable to conceive, and we give them that hope.

We offer lesser treatments prior to recommending IVF and like most every clinic in the nation, it is our goal to get these women pregnant, but to reduce the risk of multiples. Our multiple rate is less than 5% with IVF. There are guidelines that are followed when it comes to the number of embryos transferred back to the patient.

As far as creating "extra" life in the form of unused embryos, the patient can choose to limit the number that they cryopreserve. First of all, not all embryos make it to the blastocyst stage (the stage necessary to acheive pregnancy, and the stage at which the embryos are frozen). The ones that don't are not viable and are discarded. The ones that are cryopreserved have to be of sufficient quality before being frozen. Most people use those embryos for future children. Others DO choose to discard them, but that is a a personal choice. There is also the option of embryo adoption in which they can donate their embryos to another needful couple. And of course research.
Again, this is solely the choice of the parents, and I really don't believe that anyone has the right to tell them what is "right" and "wrong".

I always find it amazing when I tell people what I do, some of them are really supportive and talk about how it must make me feel. Others just look down their nose and say "oh" and then change the subject. Most of the time, those are the people who never struggled with infertility, and don't realize the pain that those couples feel.

 

[wcladymacbeth]

I would consider fertility treatments if I couldn't have kids. I would also consider adopting, but Justin wants kids who are OUR genetic material... and now that I found a man who I love more than anything, I have to agree. I want kids who will have some of his traits... his deep chocolatey eyes, his gorgeous curly hair, his musical talent, his sense of humor, etc.

 

[Miakoda]

Originally Posted by Saintgirl

Yes, there are millions of children that need to be adopted. So why should only those with fertiltiy problems be made to feel guilty about this. Why is this our burden? Are fertile couples exempt from having to worry about this problem that should be a world wide concern? Are fertile couples able to turn a blind eye because they can easily have their own children and not have to face how they will have a family? Yes, orphans around the world are a problem that the world has to embrace and find a resolution for. But let's not leave this problem to the infertile. My husband and I had decided long before our fertility issues became a problem that we would like a biological child and one adopted. Now, I ask all the fertile men and women, will you adopt instead of adding to the over population of the world?

This is a very good point, one that I think should be read again.

I second this.

To be honest, I never really thought about kids or having kids. I wasn't even sure that I did want them. And one day I woke up and that's ALL I wanted.

I can't even begin to put into words the emotions that roll through you, that take over you, when try and try and try for something that you want so bad only to never have it happen. The sadness, the anger, the frustration, the hope each month that gets crushed and feels as if your heart is crumbling apart, the feeling of being a failure......it's an emotional rollercoaster that literally destroys a part of you. To be honest, sex was a chore. I began to resent my husband. I began to resent myself and my body. I resented those who didn't want kids and had them and treated them like crap. I cried myself to sleep each and every night after watching a news report on a infant/young child abused, tortured, and/or beaten to death. I asked "Why me?" as if I had done something wrong. And the worst part is that over time I became indifferent. I pretended like I didn't care and yet each month when that test was negative, I silently cried by myself and kept my pain to myself because I didn't want people to think I still cared.

I cannot explain it. But one thing I can say is that while you may or may not agree with it, it's a whole lot easier to disagree with it when you were able and are able to conceive with no problems. It's easier to disagree with it when it does not affect you.

I am not ashamed of the fertility treatments. They cost me a small fortune and I worked primarily to pay for them as my insurance did not cover any of it at the time. My body, already a hormonal wreck due to imbalances and whatnot, became a walking guinea pig to those drugs. But I don't care. I knew the risks, I was educated about all the drugs and treatments, and my doctors were fantastic. And I now have 2 perfect little boys. So say what you will, but when I look at my boys, I refuse to regret my choices all because someone who had their own biological children disagreed with my choice of having my own.

 

[Laurelin]

I agree totally with Saintgirl.

I too have PCOS, and even though I'm 22 and not in a relationship and not even sure I want kids, fertility treatments have crossed my mind a lot. It's something I know I will most likely have to do if I want kids. Maybe not IVF, but metformin and clomid at least. I don't even cycle at all if not on some form of hormones and I obviously can't be on bc while I'm trying to get pregnant. For PCOS they typically pull you off bc and then put you on metformin and clomid when you're trying to conceive.

I like kids most the time, and I will admit even though I'm not in a place where I want them now (or maybe ever) I feel a lot different about fertility drugs than I did before. I used to say well, I'll just adopt if I have troubles. Now I'm older and I realize how hard it is to adopt and how that is many times not a viable option for people. For me right now it's just a 'what if?' It must be very hard for people who have a relationship and are stable and ready to have kids and can't. I hear a lot that if you're infertile, etc you just aren't meant to have kids and you are being selfish to not just adopt and I think that's very unfair. Most people saying this haven't really had to face the fact that you're not going to conceive on your own naturally. I don't understand why the world population problems get brought up just when dealing with people with fertility problems. I see a lot of people who say infertile people shouldn't have kids because of the population problem and yet they have kids. Why should that problem only fall to those that need a little help getting pregnant? I think adoption is wonderful and I'd love to if resources are willing in the future, but it's not always an option available. Fertility treatments are less expensive. Some women want to carry their own child. I don't really have that desire, honestly, I'd be okay with any kid. I also think if your belief is that there are too many people on the planet to make it okay to have kids then you should not have kids, not tell others that they shouldn't.

PCOS is genetic and its really a pain sometimes. However, as people have said who is completely free of genetic issues? PCOS is manageable, not curable. I'll feel bad certainly if my daughter had it, but I don't think it's a reason not to have kids. I think weighing the severity of genetic medical issues and the decision to have kids is a personal thing.

 

[Miakoda]

Also, to touch on the "more health problems" issue, this can be said of each and every child brought into this world.

I have a family history of heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, and GI problems (Celiac disease). We have various cancers in the family ranging from colorectal to skin to breast cancer. My brothers have ADD, one has ADHD, & I was actually diagnosed with an anxiety disorder when I had an IQ test done. My grandmother & her mother had glaucoma. I have astigmatism.

So should I have not had children? Does everyone else have a sqeaky clean family history? Are we really going to choose a patch similar to that Hitler tried to choose all in the name of "genetic perfection"? Because by some comments I've read, it's exactly what some feel should be done....well, them excluded.