Fading treats

[mojo-rizin]

We started Tres in puppy class a few weeks ago and so far he is doing okay. He is VERY hyper in class (the most rambunctious by far, he is the biggest puppy and about the same age as everyone else - 6 months), and he has trouble focusing. We are learning the sit command using no treats and the sit/stay command with no treats as well. I want him to drop his butt as soon as I say sit, and he does do that when he feels like it. He will do it every time for a treat. When he doesn't do it immediately, I place him in sit, and praise him. He knows that even if he doesn't sit on his own, I will do it for him and then he still gets praises. He is MUCH more consistant on this at home, but he REFUSES to do it in class. I find myself putting him in sit everytime I give the command, and it feels like I am the only one that has to do this.

I don't know if it is his age, or if it is the way that he is being trained, but it frustrates me. He is extremely smart, just stubborn as heck!! Can anyone give suggestions?

 

[Sweet72947]

I feel your pain. I have a terrier mix that is similar, except at training class he wasn't hyper, he just wouldn't move at all. I was so happy when he finally started to "lay down" reliably!

One thing I can reccomend for your puppy is to exercise him before class. Don't run him ragged or anything, because then he might not want to do commands because he's too tired, just exercise him enough that he's not bouncing off the walls.

One other thing that has helped me with my terrier is repetition. Several times during the day, do quick 10-min training sessions with sit, lay down, stay, etc. If you do little training sessions throughout the day instead of one big session once a day, the dog is less likely to get bored and will actually pay attention and learn the commands! Plus, the the other dogs in the class are probably a lot of distraction for him. Is there a way you can slowly work in distraction at home once he's doing commands reliably in a distraction-free area? Other dogs on your street? Kids yelling, etc? If you can work on distractions at home, he's more likely to behave around distractions in class.

Good luck!

 

[fillyone]

We are learning the sit command using no treats .... He will do it every time for a treat.

He's not motivated to plant his butt so fast it makes your head spin.

 

[Dekka]

How does he know if you have treats? If seeing the treat pouch or the treat itslef, that can become part of the cue. Or it could be he doesn't know it as well as you think. Dogs don't automatically transfer behaviours from one location to another. (known as generalization)

 

[Lilavati]

We use treats in our class, but it still took a week or two for Sarama to transfer the behaviors . . . there were a lot of distractions, different place, etc . . . one thing I did was to show up early and do some training by myself at the location . . . is that an option?

 

[houndlove]

It really feels to me like this dog is getting some mixed messages. You say at your training class you do not use treats. But sometimes at home you do? And sometimes you place the dog into the sit (that's called "molding")? Do you do anything else when he doesn't sit, use a collar correction or anything? What dose your trainer say to do?

That's a lot of different training methods all kind of mixed up, but none done consistently. Consistency is the key to dog training.

My personal preference is to not use molding. When you mold a dog into a position, your hands on his body become part of the cue. Dogs don't automatically know that the only thing you're wanting to be his cue to "sit" is the word "sit". At first the dog is looking at all the other circumstances as well--the way you were sitting or standing, the tone of your voice, the other things in the room, and how you are touching him, and what sequence all those things are in. If you say "Sit, sit, sit...." and then push his butt down, and do that a couple times the dog will begin to think the cue is "Sit, sit, sit..." and a push on his rear. In your mind, your cue is "sit". In his mind, the cue is everything that was going on right before he got his reward. Molding is like luring with a treat into a position--it can be helpful for a dog to understand what position you want to be in but if you have to do it more than a few times, you're no longer being helpful, you're turning all those other things you're doing into part of the whole behavior and the dog begins to expect them. And that includes showing him a treat before asking for the behavior. That's a bribe, not a reward if he can see it and knows he's going to get it before he performs, and the treat too can become part of the cue in the dog's mind.

He just sounds confused. Talk to your trainer about how you can be absolutely 100% consistent in your training. Pick one way you're going to train and go with it. Right now you're doing a little bit of molding, a little bit of lure/reward, and probably a good bit of bribing.