'Dog Whisperer' being sued for injury of dog!

[Dobiegurl]

You act like the fact that you have been bitten many times proves that you are a good trainer. You act like that should impress us. It doesn't.

Umm, its a fact. Why would I want to impress anyone. I am not one to gloat, unlike other members on this forum *cough* Animalbiz, *cough*Dr2little, *cough* doberluv, about my "experience". Please find a previous topic where I was bragging.

How does that prove I am a good trainer? That was a VERY stupid and immature remark. What did that have to do with anything. I am not going to get into an argument with you. Becuase no matter what you will ALWAYS be right on this forum because you, as Dr2little said, "know what you are doing". And just because everyone agrees with your ways they will always side with you.

You poeple on this forum make me laugh, for real.

 

[dr2little]

Its funny that you say that. The whole purpose to hang your dog is to show that you are in control of his life, not the other way around.

Not any dog will respond to "taking leadership". Some (on a very rare occasion) need to be SHOWN leadership.

I have dealt with many agressive dogs and have been biten MANY times. But the difference between most agressive dogs and the dogs I am reffering to is that most agressive dogs LACK self confidence or are fearful. These dogs I am talking about have TONS of self confidence, are powerful and have done bite work and protection training. These are NOT your average agressive dog. They, unlike most dogs, are TOO self confident, which needs to be toned down.

So sad, to be this cruel at such a young age and to believe that it's OK.

One can only hope that at 16, you still have time to grow and will eventually open your heart in mind. If not for your own sake, for the sake and safety of any dog you choose to hold hostage not and in the future. I first felt like I had to tone things down due to the fact that these posts are from a child, and although they clearly come from a very immature perspective, they can not be left undisputed, they're out here for everyone to read. If you're old enough to type this kind of garbage, you're old enough to hear the response you solicite.

 

[Dobiegurl]

So sad, to be this cruel at such a young age and to believe that it's OK.

One can only hope that at 16, you still have time to grow and will eventually open your heart in mind. If not for your own sake, for the sake and safety of any dog you choose to hold hostage not and in the future. I first felt like I had to tone things down due to the fact that these posts are from a child, and although they clearly come from a very immature perspective, they can not be left undisputed, they're out here for everyone to read. If you're old enough to type this kind of garbage, you're old enough to hear the response you solicite.

Umm, I thought you were done replying to me. Just because I don't agree with you, I'm wrong. Ok, I got it now. Its your way or the highway. Last time I checked I lived in the a democracy not a dictatorship.

So Ed who is 50+ is immature. Again, when you hold seminars around the world, THEN you can bash my opinion and stance on this issue. Until then, accept the fact that you are not God and not everyone is going to follow your lifestyle.

 

[tessa_s212]

Umm, its a fact. Why would I want to impress anyone. I am not one to gloat, unlike other members on this forum *cough* Animalbiz, *cough*Dr2little, *cough* doberluv, about my "experience". Please find a previous topic where I was bragging.

How does that prove I am a good trainer? That was a VERY stupid and immature remark. What did that have to do with anything. I am not going to get into an argument with you. Becuase no matter what you will ALWAYS be right on this forum because you, as Dr2little said, "know what you are doing". And just because everyone agrees with your ways they will always side with you.

You poeple on this forum make me laugh, for real.

Glad that we both can come to an agreement that being bitten many times does not prove or make you a good trainer, but the exact opposite.

If you have so many problems with so many respectable and knowledgable members on this forum, why stay? You obviously are not happy, and you obviously often get defensive. I can only determine that the reason you stay is because you like a good fight. You like the arguments. They are entertaining. That, or you are lacking of any self control to be kind to others or know how to keep civil. Or maybe both.

You must remember, it is not I that is going off spewing off rude remarks and name calling everywhere. And as I stated earlier, you obviously cannot show any respect to trainers and knowledgable dog owners(trainers) on this forum. That is the difference between you and I. I am not a person to go around bashing others. THAT and my training knowledge is what makes people treat me kindly, not just because I am some godly perfect, genius dog trainer. I am far from being a good trainer.

Remember, you cannot demand respect from others if you cannot even show that same due respect to others.

 

[whatszmatter]

Just remember (whatszmatter) you are the one who threw the question out there as if you and you alone had ever seen these rare cases or knew how to deal with them. These creatures, who have already experienced enough abuse by humans to get to where they are deserve better than what's been suggested by the ignorant

I've never hung a dog, or even come close to it. It would probably suprise you to know that I use marker training, I train motivational retrieves, prong collars are on my dogs for deconditioning purposes mostly just in case there's a day when I may need it.(this about the only thing you and I probably differ on) I rarely if every correct "my" dogs cause they've been brought up right.

I'm not even going to get into it again, what's the point. I could see a rare case that what ed described could be used. If I remember correctly he's used it exactly once in his lifetime, yet people on here will bash and bash and bash, without a clue as to what they're talking about themselves. next thing you know its like we're being accused of hanging dogs cause they won't sit because we happen to think Ed has pages and pages of good material on his web site.
but yet all people want to focus on is "hanging" dogs. As if that's a part of any training he actually does or even the basis for it

 

[RD]

Aw thank you Renee.

Its funny that you say that. The whole purpose to hang your dog is to show that you are in control of his life, not the other way around.

Not any dog will respond to "taking leadership". Some (on a very rare occasion) need to be SHOWN leadership.

I have dealt with many agressive dogs and have been biten MANY times. But the difference between most agressive dogs and the dogs I am reffering to is that most agressive dogs LACK self confidence or are fearful. These dogs I am talking about have TONS of self confidence, are powerful and have done bite work and protection training. These are NOT your average agressive dog. They, unlike most dogs, are TOO self confident, which needs to be toned down.

The prospect of starving to death or being completely isolated will "tone down" any dog, no matter how overinflated its ego may be. Loki ("my" wolf/sheppie mix, who would be living with me right now if he didn't try to kill small dogs) thinks he's the greatest thing in existance and he knows just how powerful he is. However, even the most powerful dogs get hungry. Even the most powerful dogs get lonely and bored. It actually took 48 hours without eating to get Loki to submit for the sake of survival and stop trying to attack me long enough to let me into his run to feed him. Once he realized that calm, submissive behavior would earn him his dinner and that I would NOT chicken out or be bulled into simply dropping the food and leaving, he started greeting me by pinning his ears back, licking his lips and averting his eyes - signs of submission. His confidence was "toned down" greatly because he acknowledged that I was in control of when he ate, and instinct told him that eating = survival. He was willing to give up his position as top dog in order to survive. I didn't need to choke him within an inch of his life to show him that I am the leader.

Hanging a dog is not leadership, it is abuse. Do you think the dog understands that you're in control of its life when you string it up by a chain and let it hang until it loses consciousness? A human may understand that, but a dog? C'mon now. Let's even say that dogs do understand that. WHY would you do such a thing when there is a better, less dangerous and less stressful option that is equally effective? Despite never hanging Loki, or throwing throw chains at him, or yanking him with a pinch collar, he is lavishly submissive to me. There is a 180 degree change in his attitude when I walk in the door. I'm 16 and have a high-pitched baby-talk voice, I crouch down and make kissy noises at dogs, and do all the things that people view as "submissive" yet this dog BOWS to me.

His last trainer used methods rather similar to Ed's. She had him on a choke chain at all times and would hang him if he tried to correct her for stepping out of line. Despite her borderline abuse, he did not view her as a leader and would not submit to her. To this day, if she takes his leash, it is apparent that Loki is the one in control. He's proof that force and pain do not equal respect.

If you could find a better, easier way to train, why wouldn't you try it? Surely it is a nicer alternative to hurting your dog...

 

[Dobiegurl]

I've never hung a dog, or even come close to it. It would probably suprise you to know that I use marker training, I train motivational retrieves, prong collars are on my dogs for deconditioning purposes mostly just in case there's a day when I may need it.(this about the only thing you and I probably differ on) I rarely if every correct "my" dogs cause they've been brought up right.

I'm not even going to get into it again, what's the point. I could see a rare case that what ed described could be used. If I remember correctly he's used it exactly once in his lifetime, yet people on here will bash and bash and bash, without a clue as to what they're talking about themselves. next thing you know its like we're being accused of hanging dogs cause they won't sit because we happen to think Ed has pages and pages of good material on his web site.
but yet all people want to focus on is "hanging" dogs. As if that's a part of any training he actually does or even the basis for it

These people are assuming that I actually hung my dog, get real. Just because I defend someone doesn;t mean that I follow ther advice, religiously. I too, can see a situation where a dog should be handled accordingly, but once in a blue moon.

I use treats and praise but poeple have a problem with me because i use a prong. Thats the real issue. I can defend whoever I want and I feel that Ed is a wonderful trainer. People can be so envious of other poeple who succeed in life. Always pick apart their bad qualities to make themselves feel better.

 

[Dobiegurl]

Glad that we both can come to an agreement that being bitten many times does not prove or make you a good trainer, but the exact opposite.

How many of you "true" trainers have been biten. Well, if you have, according to Tessa, you are BAD trainers.

If you have so many problems with so many respectable and knowledgable members on this forum, why stay? You obviously are not happy, and you obviously often get defensive. I can only determine that the reason you stay is because you like a good fight. You like the arguments. They are entertaining. That, or you are lacking of any self control to be kind to others or know how to keep civil. Or maybe both.

Lets see, I love arguing so thats one reason and not that I don't have self control, I have self pride and I have every right to defend myself, when someone tells me "what a bad person I am".

You must remember, it is not I that is going off spewing off rude remarks and name calling everywhere. And as I stated earlier, you obviously cannot show any respect to trainers and knowledgable dog owners(trainers) on this forum. That is the difference between you and I. I am not a person to go around bashing others. THAT and my training knowledge is what makes people treat me kindly, not just because I am some godly perfect, genius dog trainer. I am far from being a good trainer.

Remember, you cannot demand respect from others if you cannot even show that same due respect to others.

So no one else said anything rude but me, ok. Yeah, I can get a little rude when people are telling me that I am abusive and should not hold anymore animals "hostage". I am dieing laughing at these people.

I have lost ALL respect for the "experienced" trainers on this forum, but I have not lost respect for Ed Frawley. Again when you are flying across the world to hold seminars for thousands of people who want to follow in your footstep, THEN you can pick my opinion apart and tell me how wrong I am.

 

[tessa_s212]

How many of you "true" trainers have been biten. Well, if you have, according to Tessa, you are BAD trainers.

Lets see, I love arguing so thats one reason and not that I don't have self control, I have self pride and I have every right to defend myself, when someone tells me "what a bad person I am".

So no one else said anything rude but me, ok. Yeah, I can get a little rude when people are telling me that I am abusive and should not hold anymore animals "hostage". I am dieing laughing at these people.

I have lost ALL respect for the "experienced" trainers on this forum, but I have not lost respect for Ed Frawley. Again when you are flying across the world to hold seminars for thousands of people who want to follow in your footstep, THEN you can pick my opinion apart and tell me how wrong I am.

When a trainer is repeatedly bitten and bitten and bitten by a dog, or several different dogs, they are not what I would call "in tune" with dog behavior and being able to read their body language. A good trainer will be able to notice subtle signs, and prevent bites and attacks before they actually happen. With that said, a few bites will not automatically make a trainer "BAD".

Self control is exactly that; having control of one's self. You've stated many times that you were done with certain threads, yet you come back to post and reply rudely again. When you cannot control your words and the harsh tone they are typed in, and when you cannot control your own self from coming back to a thread that is making you very angry, I call that a lack of self control. I don't watch your behavior enough to tell you if you have a lack of self control, YOU will have to be the judge of that.

Hmm... Well, I for one, respect and admire many of the wonderful people on this board. Not to favor or pick out names, but dr2little, IlliamasQuest, and doberluv are so very intelligent and very helpful. When anyone can possess the intelligence, knowledge, and kind hearts that they do, they will have my respect.

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

President George W. Bush travels the world and speaks with people. Just because you travel the world does not make you a wonderful, perfect person.

 

[Dobiegurl]

When a trainer is repeatedly bitten and bitten and bitten by a dog, or several different dogs, they are not what I would call "in tune" with dog behavior and being able to read their body language. A good trainer will be able to notice subtle signs, and prevent bites and attacks before they actually happen. With that said, a few bites will not automatically make a trainer "BAD".

LOL, When did I say I was bitten while training. I recall two times that I was bit while actually training. I have also been attacked by two pitbulls, a rottweiler and a chow. Fortunately me knowing enough about dog behavior I knew the proper way to react to a dog attack and for that I had minor injuries.

Self control is exactly that; having control of one's self. You've stated many times that you were done with certain threads, yet you come back to post and reply rudely again. When you cannot control your words and the harsh tone they are typed in, and when you cannot control your own self from coming back to a thread that is making you very angry, I call that a lack of self control. I don't watch your behavior enough to tell you if you have a lack of self control, YOU will have to be the judge of that.

Your one of those passive-agressive people. Not directly p*ssing poeple off but you seem to get the job done. What in the hell does self control have to do with the topic. But whatever, as I said before I will not engage in an argument eith someone who does not have an argument on the topic. But wanting to post on this thread, you had to think of something.

Hmm... Well, I for one, respect and admire many of the wonderful people on this board. Not to favor or pick out names, but dr2little, IlliamasQuest, and doberluv are so very intelligent and very helpful. When anyone can possess the intelligence, knowledge, and kind hearts that they do, they will have my respect.

Good for you!!! You want a frigging gold star. I have lost total respect for you people (with the exeption of Melanie). Always bragging about your "experience", give me a break. And how ignorant I am. If that is all you people can say then thats pathetic.

 

[Dobiegurl]

President George W. Bush travels the world and speaks with people.

Oh so know were going to discredit President Bush. I don't like the man but he IS the president of the United States. Does everyone like him? No. Is everyone forced to like him? No, but Do some poeple like him? of course (me not being one of those). Not everyone is going to agree with one thing but what is rediculous is that I cannot have an opinion but everyone else can, PLEASE.

 

[tessa_s212]

President George W. Bush travels the world and speaks with people. Just because you travel the world does not make you a wonderful, perfect person.

Excellent point!

 

[Zoom]

Oh, how I wish CreatureTeacher was still posting... *sigh*

She works with dogs that have been deemed "untrainable" by EVERYONE and are usually slated to be pts; she's the last desperate resort. I believe her success rate at rehabilitation with those dogs is near or at 100%...and to my knowledge HAS NEVER BEEN BITTEN. And she's all positive.

I just have to share this story of mine. We have a Wheaten at work who has been showing severe gate aggression and that behavior had been escalating to the point that if you walked over to the leash cubby or he even heard the radio come on to page for a dog, he would flip out and start attacking dogs. He would go after the supervisor in the room as well if they tried to get him to go outside or into a crate. He snapped at me numerous times at first because I was using some harsh methods with him as I'd been taught by my old Koehler-style boss. He never actually got me, but boy did he try. His behavior was getting to the point that we were debating whether or not to ask his owners to not bring him back, and he's a regular.

To make a long story slightly shorter, I went home one night after fighting with this dog for a few hours over his behavior and decided I was going to try something totally different. I was going to try the "calm and quiet leader" like I'd been reading on here lately versus the "obey because I'm bigger" method. I started praising and petting everytime he went by the gate in a calm attitude. I called him to me often for petting, making him sit first. Over the course of the past two weeks, his attitude has done a 180. He will sit quietly at the gate and watch the dogs go out; no longer does he jump, snap and snarl. If he gets up from his sit, I tell him "ah-ah, sit" and he does, which earns him much praise.

I don't have to grab his scruff anymore, I don't yell at him anymore and I don't have to fight to crate him. I can now lead him by his collar if I need to and he will walk quietly and calmly with me.

 

[Amstaffer]

What is the record for most pages in a Chazhound thread? Just wondering

 

[Dobiegurl]

President George W. Bush travels the world and speaks with people. Just because you travel the world does not make you a wonderful, perfect person.

When did I say Ed Frawley was a "wonderful perfect person." That is so rediculous. I recall many times saying that he has his faults JUST LIKE EVERONE ELSE. He is HUMAN you know.

 

[Zoom]

I don't know for sure, but Saje's "The Person Below Me" thread is still going strong at like 5,000+ posts.

This might be the longest any TRAINING related thread has gone without getting locked though.

 

[Dobiegurl]

How many times do I have to say this. These are not your average agressive dogs. As, whatzmatter said earlier it was only used once, out of how many dogs Ed has trained (more than most of you). It doesn't seem to weigh in.

I would NEVER in a million years hang a dog but I will not let that one (tiny) fact ruin my respect for him. He has worked wonders with dogs and has produced and trained many of the dogs working with K9 handlers to keep our streets safe.

I can see a situation where that method must be used. These are not your average dog and if you guys think a working dog is the same as a pet, then you are mistaken. Yes, they can be treated as pets but they are NOT PETS.

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

I never said you called Mr. Frawley a "wonderful, perfect person" but you certainly have implied that you like Mr. Frawley quite a bit, getting your panties in a bunch when other people explain WHY they DON'T like him.

Oh, and since we're having hissy fits and being rude here, it's "ridiculous," not "rediculous".

 

[doberkim]

These people are assuming that I actually hung my dog, get real. Just because I defend someone doesn;t mean that I follow ther advice, religiously. I too, can see a situation where a dog should be handled accordingly, but once in a blue moon.

I use treats and praise but poeple have a problem with me because i use a prong. Thats the real issue. I can defend whoever I want and I feel that Ed is a wonderful trainer. People can be so envious of other poeple who succeed in life. Always pick apart their bad qualities to make themselves feel better.

no one has ap roblem with you using a prong. i own a prong, i use a prong. i also own an electronic collar. but my most used training tool is a clicker and a good bag of treats, a nice tug toy.

youre 16. your age is showing through. you see battles everywhere, you are rude and disrespectful. what exactly have you done in your 16 years, that has resulted in you getting bitten so many times?

none of us are envious of ed at all, and quite honestly youre grasping at straws and it shows for the rest of us.

no one has a problem with you, except for the ones you are creating yourself. i have a prong, i use it when necessary - but i use the least force possible for my dogs and try other methods BEFORE i resort to physically forcing them into something. THAT is training - having multiple tools in your pocket and understanding how to use ALL of them correctly.