Crate Rant!

[Emily]

I think for me (and again, no, I really have never seen or even heard of the issue), I can see where it may be a concern, but it is so far down my list of worries about how people raise dogs that it quite simply takes a back seat. I worry about people who are alpha rolling their puppies. I worry about people who make their puppies suffer the rude onslaught of every dog at the dog park because they were told to "socialize" it. I worry about people who think rewarding their young dog's nervousness around strangers is "teaching him to be protective". I worry about people who don't take their puppies out at all until they are older because they worry about vaccinations, and I worry about people who don't vaccinate at all because they heard the hype and went overboard without researching. I worry about people who get the wrong dog because it is cool or it is popular or it is pretty, and you just know both the people and dogs are going to suffer. I worry, like Fran mentioned, about the people who get a dog and it lives outside with minimal contact. I worry about people who get dogs for sports and then rotate through them every year because they aren't up to snuff. I worry about people who hear "neutering is bad" and won't do it, but are completely unprepared for owning an intact dog.

It isn't that I think anyone should keep a puppy in a crate all the time with no contact for the sake of ease. If that person shows up in my life, I'd absolutely work to change how they lived with their dog. I just can't get myself very wound up about it when I personally don't see it happening. Especially when I do definitely see the opposite problem happening, with people not properly confining their dogs for their own safety.

This. I work with "average dog owners" 5 days a week and I just don't see this problem.

The only people I see guilty of this behavior are, frankly, "dog people" who've convinced themselves that it's ok, for their convenience, to keep dogs kenneled all the time so they can own more for sports, breeding, etc without having to live with them all or deal with them.

I don't see well-meaning people doing this. I just... don't. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying that I literally never see it. When people keep dogs in crates extensively for convenience, frankly I find that they're either people who don't care about their dogs to begin with (like commercially oriented BYBs), or "dog people" who've become... warped, and are convinced they should have all these dogs they can't actually live with (or just can't be bothered with), and start piling dogs into kennels for the majority of the day.

I really, truly do NOT see well-meaning members of the dog owning public being sucked into excessive crating. A educational campaign would be meaningless because as I said, IME, the people guilty of warehousing dogs in crates for convenience know exactly what they're doing and just don't care.

 

[SizzleDog]

I'm one of those bad people.... Tab spends 12-16 hours in his crate daily. It's too cold for him to be outside for hours, and he isn't trustworthy loose while I'm working and can't supervise him.

BUT.... his time outside the crate isn't idle time. He gets more socialization, training, and enrichment activities than most dogs, regardless of age. That's what makes his crate time okay.

And once he's housetrained, guess what... he won't be crated unless we leave the house for a few hours for dinner and a movie. Otherwise, he'll be loose. This method has worked very well for us, and has allowed our dogs to be loose in the house by the time they're 6 months old or so.

 

[Opal]

This. I work with "average dog owners" 5 days a week and I just don't see this problem.

The only people I see guilty of this behavior are, frankly, "dog people" who've convinced themselves that it's ok, for their convenience, to keep dogs kenneled all the time so they can own more for sports, breeding, etc without having to live with them all or deal with them.

I don't see well-meaning people doing this. I just... don't. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying that I literally never see it. When people keep dogs in crates extensively for convenience, frankly I find that they're either people who don't care about their dogs to begin with (like commercially oriented BYBs), or "dog people" who've become... warped, and are convinced they should have all these dogs they can't actually live with (or just can't be bothered with), and start piling dogs into kennels for the majority of the day.

I really, truly do NOT see well-meaning members of the dog owning public being sucked into excessive crating. A educational campaign would be meaningless because as I said, IME, the people guilty of warehousing dogs in crates for convenience know exactly what they're doing and just don't care.

Wow this is very spot on.
Perhaps you're right. I'm probably speaking to the wrong demographic here.
I do see a lot of "dog people" and these days, I see them a lot more then I do pet owners. The pet owners I'm use to seeing are usually getting their feet wet in the dog world and I suppose, obviously invested and carefully watching and listening to the people who've come before them. Perhaps it's these people, the ones trying so hard to listen to "the dog people", that are more inclined to misinterpret information, or even straight up take rotten advice.
Still, as someone who also works with pet owners, more of them are quite proud to tell me that they've already crate trained their puppy (but he screams and pees all over!...or something) and only a small amount of them are actually using it correctly. As has been previously mentioned, some of these pet owners are not even aware that closing the door is part of using a crate as it's intended. IMO, this tells me we need to help educate our clients on how and why to use a crate.

Reading your post makes me cringe. I do very much agree that their are more pertinent threats to the average puppy then being left in a crate all day. Where does one even begin?

 

[Opal]

I'm one of those bad people.... Tab spends 12-16 hours in his crate daily. It's too cold for him to be outside for hours, and he isn't trustworthy loose while I'm working and can't supervise him.

BUT.... his time outside the crate isn't idle time. He gets more socialization, training, and enrichment activities than most dogs, regardless of age. That's what makes his crate time okay.

And once he's housetrained, guess what... he won't be crated unless we leave the house for a few hours for dinner and a movie. Otherwise, he'll be loose. This method has worked very well for us, and has allowed our dogs to be loose in the house by the time they're 6 months old or so.

This sounds like a wonderful example of how to use a crate to help enhance your ability to safely care for and train your puppy! I wish they had like buttons on this site, I would like this a million times

 

[Fran101]

Honestly, now that I think of it.. most regular pet owners from my experience find the crate (used AT ALL) a rather cruel thing.
I mean, for me even, it took a WHILE of being immersed in the dog world to see a crate as anything more than keeping your dog in a tiny cage.

Now, I'll never raise a puppy or have a dog without one. But it's just not something I see that is COMMON

 

[Dizzy]

I don't see the necessity of adult dogs being crated during the day... Unless the dog is actually going to injure itself or is on crate rest.

We've used crates as training tools, and as hospital wards, but I couldn't leave them crated all day as a regular occurrence whilst I worked. They mooch about, they look out the window, they sniff stuff. Just... Not for me at all. I've shared my views before on this many years ago and it wasn't a popular opinion then

If you work 10 hours a day then I see it as being even more restrictive..... I think if you're out the house that long then you should be working to make that time you're away as enriched as possible, with opportunities to move around if they want to. There are laws here how livestock are kept, never mind pets (who probably aren't even covered by such laws, which is sort of mind boggling).

I 'get' that there are always special cases and it's either that or a terrible outcome, but I see what is being said, completely.

If your dog doesn't NEED a crate, or can be trained, or can be confined in a proofed room with space to move, why crate all day every day?

It's not about a few hours here, or overnight whilst you and they sleep... It's those dogs who are crated 10 hours a day, have a few hours on an evening then are crated 8 hours again overnight. What a dull life. Even if the hours out are packed with none stop treats and games, 18 hours plus in a box is worse than some livestock get. I sometimes think just because a dog doesn't show signs of stress or bother then it's seen as ok. But we have a duty to offer some quality of life, not just those hours they are with you.

*and let the barrage begin*

Remember, it's just an opinion, you don't have to agree with it.

I WOULD rather see a dog in a home, loved, trained and cared for well that is crated than one in a horrid abusive home. I just think people should aim to offer more than crating if they can.

 

[Laurelin]

I don't see the necessity of adult dogs being crated during the day... Unless the dog is actually going to injure itself or is on crate rest.

I didn't think you'd need to keep crating adult dogs... until I got mia. All my past dogs became trustworthy as adults and were left loose after about 12 months. There's no way you could do that with Mia.

That said, I personally leave her in a pen while I'm out so she can have toys and room to move around plus her beds, water, etc. I work fairly long hours and I personally feel much better with her in a pen than a crate. But that's just what works for us. I still sometimes feel bad but on weekends her activity level is similar. She sleeps through the time she is left in the pen while I'm at work then has active hours right after waking up and in the evening/late afternoon.

 

[Opal]

I don't see the necessity of adult dogs being crated during the day... Unless the dog is actually going to injure itself or is on crate rest.

We've used crates as training tools, and as hospital wards, but I couldn't leave them crated all day as a regular occurrence whilst I worked. They mooch about, they look out the window, they sniff stuff. Just... Not for me at all. I've shared my views before on this many years ago and it wasn't a popular opinion then

If you work 10 hours a day then I see it as being even more restrictive..... I think if you're out the house that long then you should be working to make that time you're away as enriched as possible, with opportunities to move around if they want to. There are laws here how livestock are kept, never mind pets (who probably aren't even covered by such laws, which is sort of mind boggling).

I 'get' that there are always special cases and it's either that or a terrible outcome, but I see what is being said, completely.

If your dog doesn't NEED a crate, or can be trained, or can be confined in a proofed room with space to move, why crate all day every day?

It's not about a few hours here, or overnight whilst you and they sleep... It's those dogs who are crated 10 hours a day, have a few hours on an evening then are crated 8 hours again overnight. What a dull life. Even if the hours out are packed with none stop treats and games, 18 hours plus in a box is worse than some livestock get. I sometimes think just because a dog doesn't show signs of stress or bother then it's seen as ok. But we have a duty to offer some quality of life, not just those hours they are with you.

*and let the barrage begin*

Remember, it's just an opinion, you don't have to agree with it.

I WOULD rather see a dog in a home, loved, trained and cared for well that is crated than one in a horrid abusive home. I just think people should aim to offer more than crating if they can.

Ha!
I like you. Right on target.

 

[Southpaw]

I don't see the necessity of adult dogs being crated during the day... Unless the dog is actually going to injure itself or is on crate rest.

Some dogs are just never trustworthy. I don't like leaving dogs crated all day either, but if the alternative would be coming home to my house destroyed or my dog needing foreign body surgery because he ate the rug or something.... well, I would rather crate.

None of my adult dogs need to be crated. And I wouldn't want to. Juno was probably 18-24 months old when I could finally trust her and I was so worried she would never transition out of her crate. But sometimes that's just the way it is.

 

[Laurelin]

Yeah Mia is not trustworthy still at almost 5. /fine when you are there to keep an eye on her but she is not fine when left to her own devices.

 

[Fran101]

I'm having the hard time with Merlin and this issue.
because some days he is FINE, ALL DAY, NOTHING

and others it's like.. REALLY?? THE REMOTE?? WHY???

He has toys, we do kongs, he is exercised extensively in the morning before I leave, I try to put things away but ugh... it's the most random ridiculous things

 

[Finkie_Mom]

Honestly, now that I think of it.. most regular pet owners from my experience find the crate (used AT ALL) a rather cruel thing.
I mean, for me even, it took a WHILE of being immersed in the dog world to see a crate as anything more than keeping your dog in a tiny cage.

I actually had a woman during the first week of a training class I was teaching talk about how crates were cruel, as Jari was sitting there in his crate peacefully waiting to work as a demo dog LOL.

 

[Finkie_Mom]

I'm having the hard time with Merlin and this issue.
because some days he is FINE, ALL DAY, NOTHING

and others it's like.. REALLY?? THE REMOTE?? WHY???

He has toys, we do kongs, he is exercised extensively in the morning before I leave, I try to put things away but ugh... it's the most random ridiculous things

That's why Jari is still not given all day free roam at all LOL. He's housebroken and all of that, but I will go to, say, take a shower, and he somehow gets hold of a sock from somewhere unknown to me, or a piece of plastic, or a pen.... All things that I was not aware were even in his vicinity.

 

[Southpaw]

I'm having the hard time with Merlin and this issue.
because some days he is FINE, ALL DAY, NOTHING

and others it's like.. REALLY?? THE REMOTE?? WHY???

He has toys, we do kongs, he is exercised extensively in the morning before I leave, I try to put things away but ugh... it's the most random ridiculous things

Lol yeah with Juno she never got into anything while we were home, so I thought cool once you're housebroken you shouldn't need a crate. Right??? Wrong. Anytime I attempted it she would SHRED ALL THE THINGS. She was a couple years old when it finally stopped! Hell even now she still isn't 100%, case in point last week she ate like 3 bags of treats and 12 months of Heartgard, and I just came home to the shredded packaging thrown everywhere. So random because it's been a LONG time since she's done anything like that.

 

[*blackrose]

Abrams is often crated for 10-12 hours during the day (plus bedtime crating). Which really sucks, but unfortunately....I work full time and am currently by myself, so that's what has to happen. He's out for 40mins in the AM, same time frame over lunch when my friend stops by to let them out to potty, and then when I get home he normally has about 4-6 hours before it's bedtime and then he goes back into the crate.

I've tried having him loose at night before, and he was miserable. Paced and whined and barked at noises and just was completely unsettled. As soon as I put him back into his crate he was out like a light.

I do feel bad that he is crated so much...but there isn't anything I can do about it. Luckily, my really long days are only three days a week now, so Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Saturdays and Sundays he's may be crated for only 6 hours during the day (and then again at bedtime).

I crate Cynder now, too. There is no way for me to secure the trashcans in this apartment and she raids them every time she's left loose and alone. So she's crated when I'm gone, because I got sick and tired of picking up trash everywhere all the time. If there was a way for me to have all of the trashcans non-accessible to her, she'd be left loose 24/7.

On a similar note, Chloe is never crated. If she needs to be contained, she's shut up in a room or kenneled outside. Gracie and Cooper are crated when no one is there to supervise or they'll poop/pee in the house.

 

[Katem]

I have no problem with crating my adult dog while I'm gone. In fact, I just downgraded Pig from a 36" to a 30" purely because the 30" looks better in my living room. And you know what? She couldn't care less about being "stuck in a box" her cue is actually go to your box/pig in a box.

She could probably be left out now and not get into trouble, but she doesn't mind being confined, so why risk it? I know she's safe. Don't have to worry that she'll annoy Bear and start a fight. She can't ingest things she's not supposed to. Can't spend the day barking at people passing the house.

I don't think there is necessarily a connection between how well adjusted/physically developed a dog is and how much time that dog spends in a crate. There are just so many other factors to consider that blanket statements about over-crating really don't address anything.

 

[sassafras]

Yeah Mia is not trustworthy still at almost 5. /fine when you are there to keep an eye on her but she is not fine when left to her own devices.

Yea Squash is really not trustworthy yet, either, and he can be an ass to the cats (hasn't been dangerous but just overbearing). I have concerns about my dogs being loose together unsupervised, as well.

I'm lucky in that my dogs really only have two long days a week right now, and one of them I can usually come home at lunch. My hours will change after the first of the year so that they only have one long day. But even having said that, they frequently just sleep all day on my days off anyway. They get enough work and play when I am home that I don't worry about one or two long days in the crate for Squash. I'm a pretty terrible person, though.

 

[Emily]

Yeah... Blossom is only around 20 months old so not quite "adult" but honestly I don't foresee her being lose in the house alone very often... or like ever. Because fires, destruction, plagues etc will ensue. No exaggeration, she starts fires and breaks doors WHEN WE'RE WATCHING HER. Like HELL I'm ever leaving her lose ALONE. :lol-sign:

Plus Keeva is lose when I'm gone, and while they're really good together 90% of the time, the size disparity, Keeva's scrappy nature, Blossom's willingness to engage in a fight just because, and the power of her jaws - it just doesn't add up to a "good idea" to me.

 

[Saeleofu]

I'm having the hard time with Merlin and this issue.
because some days he is FINE, ALL DAY, NOTHING

and others it's like.. REALLY?? THE REMOTE?? WHY???

He has toys, we do kongs, he is exercised extensively in the morning before I leave, I try to put things away but ugh... it's the most random ridiculous things

And that's why Logan is 4 1/2 and STILL crated when I'm gone lol

 

[Babyblue5290]

I usually crate Talon when I'm gone to let Art have a respite. Talon likes to "play" with art and beg him constantly and if I'm not there to tell Talon to leave Art alone, he doesn't want to play, Talon keeps at it despite Art's warnings/refusal. Plus, Talon is twice Arts size so I feel safer that way. I have no problem putting Talon in his crate when we need a rest from him, especially if he's having a particularly annoying day. He enjoys his crate a lot. He even barked at me, went to his crate, whined and pawed the door until I opened it for him so he could go in and sleep.

I guess I heart a lot more "but crates are so cruel!" when the dogs getting into trouble and not safe home alone than I do people leaving the dogs in there too long.