Biting !!!

TeaNSadie

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#1
HI everyone... this may sound completley out of the normal.. however.. Im new to this :) I just got a shitzu/pom puppy.. she is 9 weeks now.. and I just cant seem to get her to stop biting.. I take her outside.. she gets excited.. and bites and bites.. I take my hands away and say No firmly.. and it just eggs her on more and she then gets really upset.. and keeps trying to jump and bite.. she eventually calms down.. and is fine.. its just everytime we play it seems as though all seh wants to do is bite... am I doing something wrong?? Im consitantly trying to get her to stop and say no no.. over and over.. and nothing else seems to work.. please advise if you have any suggestions... much appreciated!!
 

bubbatd

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#2
I hope someone can help you ...... I've only had Goldens and could distract them easily and say " No bite " . Rough play = rough biting . I don't stir up puppies to that point . If they want to play , give them something to play with other than a hand or an arm .
 

Maxy24

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#3
you seem to be doing things right, Keep in mind she is just a baby. Continue stopping play every time she bites and wait until she calms down. Make sure she has toys to play with, bite,chew and attack. As soon as she stops trying to bite you can start playing with her again. Expect to stop playing almost immediately since she will most likely start biting right away. Don't encourage her to attack and bite you hands, some people like to teach bite inhibition but I am not sure if you do that as a puppy or once they are a little older. Bite inhibition is taught by letting the dog bite as long as it does not cause pain. As soon as it hurts you stop playing. This teaches the dog to control his bite and jaw pressure.

Biting is normal and natural so it will take a while to go away. just make sure you stop playing every time she bites or sh will think it is OK sometimes which it is not. She needs to know it is wrong EVERY time. You don't even have to say no, just pay no attention to her at all when she starts to bite.

Good Luck and remember not to get frustrated ;)
 
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#4
mine does the exact same thing the threadstarter is stating

he will bite you and when you ignore him he will run after you to bite your pants. and if u continue walkin and he stops bitin, when you sit down to give him toys to play with, he will look at the toy in ur hand and bite your hand instead. there is no way of stopping this!
 

Kiwii

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#5
Yeah! I'm finally back with MORE problems with my pup! Tiger's almost a year old now. And he's still constantly biting my clothes, housing equipments, WOODEN FLOOR, or anything that would catch his interest! What could I do to stop him?

He also bites on my skin too++ others :( and it mostly hurts !!
 

Dekka

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#6
Redirect to a toy. So if the pup is trying to bite you, get a really good toy, and play for a few seconds. The other thing I have clients do is to have the pup (under close supervision obviously) drag a really light leash, like a conformation one. As soon as the pup is in bitey bite mode, slip the handle of the leash over the nearest door knob and ignore the pup for 30 seconds to a min. Then unslip the leash and still ignoring the pup, continue what you were doing.

The other thing that I have heard that works is to yelp and act really hurt, make a big production of having a 'hurt paw' I have seen a video of this and amazingly it seemed to work well.

The pup should have lots of good toys/bones/chewies to chew on. My dogs love bully sticks, beef tendons, and stuffed cow hoves (merricks makes them, they are the whole foot of the cow thats been dried)
 

Fran27

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#7
I don't like the redirection thing, it would seem that the dog is rewarded for biting. What worked for me is just getting up and turning my back, and ignoring the dog totally until he stops.
 

Dekka

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#8
Fran, its not rewarding. Think of a baby human goes to gum the car keys, mommy says, opps, takes them away and gives them the baby's own toys. Same principle, you are teaching the dog what is apropriate to chew on, and what is not. Puppies NEED to chew, its up to the owner to teach them what is to be chewed on, and what isn't. Also the pup is looking for interaction. So you teach them HOW to interact with a human, is with a toy, not directly on the human's skin.

I have done it with all my puppies, and my clients do this. It works, and the behavior of chewing on people diminishes. And that is the end goal, right? So even if you think its rewarding, but the behaviour stops, then the dog/pup obviously doesn't see it as rewarding, or the behaviour would increase. Rewards and punishments are what the dog finds rewarding or punishing, not what the owner things SHOULD be rewarding or punishing.
 
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#9
I have a shih tzu as well, but its really not about the breed. I was very strict about this, there was 100% no bitting.

First make sure there is no one encouraging the behavior. The dog is NOT allowed to use your hands, clothes etc as play things. It is completely unacceptable and all fun stops when they misbehave.

If you are playing with them always use a toy, not your hands, if they bite you on purpose yelp and then walk away and all play stops. The yelping is supposed to let the dog know in dog language they hurt you and you stopping playing that it is not acceptable.

Then you can work on redirecting the behavior. I suggest the hard white nylabones for a chew toy, they last a really long time and do not cause a mess. You can say "no biting", hand them the bone, and praise them
when they chew on it.
Have many bones around the house so you can grab one whenever needed to redirect the dog. Praise your dog whenever it chews on their bone until their behavior is fixed.

This should let the dog know what is appropriate to chew on and not appropriate, it may also save you the damage of furniture... Though shih tzus are not known to be destructive dogs for that.
 

Doberluv

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#10
Fran, its not rewarding. Think of a baby human goes to gum the car keys, mommy says, opps, takes them away and gives them the baby's own toys. Same principle, you are teaching the dog what is apropriate to chew on, and what is not. Puppies NEED to chew, its up to the owner to teach them what is to be chewed on, and what isn't. Also the pup is looking for interaction. So you teach them HOW to interact with a human, is with a toy, not directly on the human's skin.

I have done it with all my puppies, and my clients do this. It works, and the behavior of chewing on people diminishes. And that is the end goal, right? So even if you think its rewarding, but the behaviour stops, then the dog/pup obviously doesn't see it as rewarding, or the behaviour would increase. Rewards and punishments are what the dog finds rewarding or punishing, not what the owner things SHOULD be rewarding or punishing.
Exactly.:hail:

Rewards and punishments are what the dog finds rewarding or punishing, not what the owner things SHOULD be rewarding or punishing
So important.

In this case, up to now, puppy thinks chewing on you is the best thing, it's more valuable than chewing on a toy because he has been getting what he wants.....attention, affection etc. When that ceases to work, the toy is going to become better (because you're going to make it better) than chewing on you and chewing on you will extinguish.

When you redirect the dog to a chew toy, let him take a couple of chomps on that, you then tell him how wonderful he is and maybe even give him a bonus of a tiny treat. That is the reward for chewing on the appropriate toy. By the time he's chewing on the toy and rewarded for that, enough time has elapsed since he was biting on you and his attention has completely shifted from biting on you to this new activity. Puppies have very short attention spans. If chewing on the toy is better than chewing on you, he's going to learn to chew on the toy. Chewing on you mustn't work for the dog. Attention/affection and playtime, teething relief (his motivators) stops completely and immediately. Chewing on a teething toy does work because he not only gets his chewing needs met, but he gets attention/affection and treats from you. Dogs do what works. Period.

I've done this with every puppy I've ever had and I've had plenty. They bite me too hard, shove toy in mouth, walk away. Then turn, looking over my shoulder and praise. Then come right back and pat/treat quietly and briefly so he can get back to chewing his toy. If puppy sinks his teeth into me, I repeat....over and over until he makes a connection.

In the thread called something like Puppy is showing a mean streak in the training forum there is lots of advice and Shirley Chong's article (a link to click) on bite inhibition. I think that is the best thing I've ever read on the subject. I highly recommend it. Puppy needs to learn to regulate the pressure of his bite, not to completely never touch your skin with his teeth. He can learn to have a soft mouth this way and that can come in very handy in certain situations.

If your puppy is chasing after you and biting, is he getting enough romping and running outside in the yard? (make sure it's safe....fenced or he's on a long line) Get him tired out. Work on teaching him some basic obedience skills. Give him alternatives. Get him in a class with a good positive method trainer) Keep at it, be consistant and let him mature. It takes a little while.
 

Herschel

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#11
Category: Puppy Stuff ¤
Author: Shirley Chong ¤
Title: Bite Inhibition ¤

Well, the people have spoken!
Following is the article about bite inhibition I wrote for a
magazine article. It will also be incorporated into my (almost done)
seminar workbook.

M. Shirley Chong
The Well Mannered Dog

I was the kid who always tried to color inside the lines and obey
all the rules, so of course I wasn't about to allow my brand new
puppy, Fergie (another German Shepherd) bite. But when I watched her
with Sheba, most of their play was mouth play. They played tug of war,
they wrestled, and most fun of all, they laid face to face and jaw
wrestled while making a singsong wrestling growl. I wanted in on it,
too. I didn't get a puppy just so Sheba could have all the fun!
I noticed that Fergie had bitten Sheba a little too hard a few times
and Sheba had somehow taught her to keep her bite soft. I thought
that I could probably figure out how to do it as well.
The books said that if I let Fergie bite me or play tug of war, she
would think of me as a littermate and try to dominate me. However, I
could see that Sheba had no trouble at all maintaining her position
as Fergie's superior. In fact, sometimes Sheba had to encourage
Fergie to play by rolling over on her back and waving her front feet
at Fergie. Sheba didn't make a big show out of being superior; as far
as I could see, she simply assumed she was and Fergie went along with
that. So did every other dog that Sheba met, even when Sheba was a
dignified old lady of fifteen. Well, I could do that, too.
For years it was my secret: I played with my dogs by letting them
mouth wrestle with my hands. They never tried to dominate me and they
only did it in play. I continued reading and found something
startling: there were actual experts who talked about bite inhibition.
When I read the description of bite inhibition it was exactly what I
called "biting nice" to myself.
So now I'm out of the closet. Not only do I play mouth games with
all my dogs, I actually teach them to play mouth games and tug of
war! This is all about how I do it and why I do it.
From watching puppies and from talking to experienced breeders, I
learned that its normal for puppies between about six and sixteen
weeks old to be obsessed with playfighting. When two puppies of this
age meet, they want to wrestle. At this age, Mother Nature has given
them needle sharp puppy teeth, so they can really sting each other
but they can't cause serious damage. I believe that the lesson that
puppies learn at this age is the most important one a puppy can
learn: how much bite is enough and how much bite is too much.
Any dog, no matter how stable of temperament, can be pushed into a
position where they feel they must bite to defend themselves. The
difference between the dog that administers a good hard pinch to the
tormenting six year old human and the dog that rips the six year
old's face off is bite inhibition.
The traditional methods of teaching puppies never to bite include
things like scruff shakes, cuffing the puppy under the chin or the
infamous "alpha wolf rollover." A very common complaint by people who
use these methods is that the puppy turns around and bites harder.
Two puppies playing together egg each other on by jumping on each
other, poking at each other with their feet, and wrestling! No wonder
many puppies come back and bite harder--their human is giving them
every indication they should.
How do puppies learn bite inhibition? By biting! Trying to teach a
puppy bite inhibition without allowing them to bite is like trying to
teach a child to ride a bike without ever letting them get on the
bike. It just can't be done.
How do puppies learn when they've bitten too hard? They give each
other feedback. Just enough bite is rewarded with more play. Too much
bite and the other puppy yelps and stops playing. It works for humans
too: let the puppy bite and give a very high pitched yelp if there's
too much pressure. A normal puppy will back off for an instant. If
the human is a good actor, the puppy will do some self calming by
shaking or sitting down to scratch or else apologize by giving a lick.
It's often best to rehearse your high pitched IPE! or OUCH! in
private before trying it out on your puppy.
If the puppy comes right back and bites harder, give another high
pitched yelp and walk away. Go somewhere the puppy can't reach you.
The message: puppies that can't play nice play alone.
Some people roll the puppy's lip over their teeth either to prevent
biting or to promote bite inhibition. This is not as effective
because the puppy has to learn to moderate their bite without the
feedback of pain from their own nervous system.
Very quickly, the puppy learns how much bite is enough to make the
game fun and how much bite stops the game altogether. They bite and
mouth but they do it in such a way that it doesn't hurt at all.
Figure out how to initiate mouthplay with your puppy. It's usually
pretty obvious--certain body postures, hand gestures, etc, will get
the puppy to playing.
There are times, though, when you'd really rather not be covered
with puppy slime (hard to imagine but true). What you need is a
signal to let your puppy know when not to bite. I teach this in a
very methodical way, so that it becomes absolutely clear to the puppy.

Get a nice, smelly, really high on the delicious scale treat, let
the puppy know you have it and then close your hand over it. Let the
puppy lick, snuffle, poke, nudge, delicately nibble and try to get
that treat out of your hand. Eventually the puppy will give up and
back away or turn their head away--CLICK and open your hand so they
can get the treat.
This is what I call Doggie Zen: to get the treat, you must give up
the treat. It's the basis for most training--the foundation of "do
what I want and then we'll do what you want." Learning Doggie Zen is
the beginning of learning emotional control.
If your puppy bites harder than is acceptable, yelp and pull your
hand up out of their reach for a minute.
The first few times you do this, it may take quite a while for the
puppy to give up. Just be patient, smile and say NOTHING. The puppy
will eventually give up. Practice this exercise several times a day
and in as many different places (at home, in the yard, at the park,
in other people's houses, etc) as you can find.
Very quickly, the puppy will start to back away when they see you
hold out your closed hand. Voila! You have a signal! However, you
might prefer a verbal command. When the puppy is predictably backing
up when you present your closed hand, it's time to insert the verbal
command. Say "Leave It!" sweetly, hold out your closed hand, click
(when the puppy backs away) and open your hand. Anticipation (which
dogs excel at) will take over and the puppy will realize that the
words "Leave It!" mean you're about to hold out your closed hand.
When the puppy backs up well on the words "Leave It!" it's time to
incorporate this command into new situations. When you go into a new
situation, though, you have to go all the way back to kindergarten.
The easiest way to do it is to sit down and SILENTLY place the treat
on a chair next to you (assuming your puppy is large enough to reach
the seat of that chair). Let the puppy try to pry the treat out from
under your hand until the puppy gives up. When the puppy backs up or
turns their head away, click and move your hand so the puppy can get
the treat.
The puppy will learn to back off a bit quicker than they did the
first time. When the puppy is backing off when your hand goes over
the treat, it's time to add in the verbal "Leave It!" to this
situation.
Then start a new situation by dropping the treat on the floor and
covering it with your foot. Again, you'll have to go back to
kindergarten and re-teach it. This time, it should all go just a bit
quicker.
Keep figuring out new situations. Keep going back to kindergarten to
re-teach the "Leave It!" It will go just a little faster each time.
By the time your puppy reliably backs away from you when you say
"Leave It!" no matter what the circumstances are or where you are,
your puppy will be about four months old. Now it's time to start
incorporating "Leave It!" when your puppy wants to mouthplay. Start
off gradually, using "Leave It!" to stop mouthplay once every ten
times the puppy initiates mouthplay. Click and treat when the puppy
backs off. If the puppy doesn't back off, walk away and give the
puppy a time out. Over time, use "Leave It!" when your puppy
initiates mouthplay more and more often.
When your puppy is about six to seven months old, use "Leave It!"
whenever your puppy initiates mouthplay. Don't give up mouthplay
altogether, though! You worked hard to develop that soft mouth and
it's like any skill that depends in part on muscle memory--it needs
to be practiced to keep it fresh.

Copyright 1997 Meesoon Shirley Chong
 

CrusMomma

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#12
Biting is very instrumental to a puppy, during both periods of teething. Be sure you always have plenty of toys on hand. All you can really do is redirect her when she begins biting you. Scold her gently and then give her one of her toys to chew on. It took Cruiser a couple weeks to realize that his toys are what he needs to be chewing on, not my hand, shoes, couch, bedspread or anything else that he happens to come across. If you train her well now, then when she begins getting her adult teeth (as Cruiser is now) and starts that teething again, she will already know what she can and cannot have.

Also, try ice cubes. Cruiser loves them and they really soothe his teeth. I also freeze one of his toys and old dish rags. All of this helps to calm him by minimizing the pain in his gums.
 

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