Actually, we agree that the owners are one cause. Where we disagree is likely to be the solution, since I think rehoming the dog is not the answer. Although it's tragic that the owners created this mess, I don't think biting dogs neccessarily deserves a new start. Either enforce some of the dangerous dog laws that exist - owners required to contain and muzzle biters - or have the dog killed at the owner's expense.
Beautiful Pit on T.V.
- Thread starter bubbatd
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I agree that nature and nurture both have their place. I do however think that some dogs carry bad genetic personality traits that lead them to be more suceptible to this kind of behavior...especially if placed in the wrong hands. I will explain why I think this way. My husband and I purchased an 8 week old puppy years ago from a very nice man who's dog got pregnant accidentally (actually lack of owner responsibility, but that is another story 
) The mother of the pups was a Rottweiler and seemed to have a very nice temperament on the other hand, the father was an Aus. Shep. whom we never got to meet. When we met the puppies they seemed happy, active, and aloof so we picked the one out that we wanted and went on our way. Right off the bat in the car ride home I noticed that this pup was different then any other I had experienced. When taken out of her comfort zone she became very fearful...I was not to surprised as I expected a pup's first time away from mom and the litter to be somewhat traumatic. In the days to come she was VERY fearful and if we went to touch or pick her up she would scream!!! I did not know what to do, this was so strange to me. Eventually that behavior subsided with us, but if she ever met strangers she would continue on with this act of drama and extreme fearfullness. We got her to puppy classes and everyday she came to work with me at the vet clinic and met new people. I had strangers give her treats and attention. In puppy school we played pass the puppy where she could meet all kinds of different people and get a treat from them. We tried everything and she NEVER got better. She was always afraid and as she aged it turned into fear aggression. This was so hard to cope with after never having a fearful dog around. I truly believe that there was nothing that could have changed her. I believe that she was born that way and I can't imagine how she would have turned out if we did not do all the socializing that we did I am not saying the pitbull above was fearful, in fact, seems opposite, but I am saying that certain dogs are genetically pre-disposed to temperament problems. I know what some of you are thinking...what happened to my dog as a small puppy? Was she socialized at a very young age. After meeting and seeing her mother and the pups and meeting the owner, I truly believe that this dog was just born this way. Unfortunatley we lost her just before her second birthday to fear/stress induced gastric torsion "bloat" poor baby, but at least her last day was spent playing fetch at the park with her ball...her favorite
) The mother of the pups was a Rottweiler and seemed to have a very nice temperament on the other hand, the father was an Aus. Shep. whom we never got to meet. When we met the puppies they seemed happy, active, and aloof so we picked the one out that we wanted and went on our way. Right off the bat in the car ride home I noticed that this pup was different then any other I had experienced. When taken out of her comfort zone she became very fearful...I was not to surprised as I expected a pup's first time away from mom and the litter to be somewhat traumatic. In the days to come she was VERY fearful and if we went to touch or pick her up she would scream!!! I did not know what to do, this was so strange to me. Eventually that behavior subsided with us, but if she ever met strangers she would continue on with this act of drama and extreme fearfullness. We got her to puppy classes and everyday she came to work with me at the vet clinic and met new people. I had strangers give her treats and attention. In puppy school we played pass the puppy where she could meet all kinds of different people and get a treat from them. We tried everything and she NEVER got better. She was always afraid and as she aged it turned into fear aggression. This was so hard to cope with after never having a fearful dog around. I truly believe that there was nothing that could have changed her. I believe that she was born that way and I can't imagine how she would have turned out if we did not do all the socializing that we did I am not saying the pitbull above was fearful, in fact, seems opposite, but I am saying that certain dogs are genetically pre-disposed to temperament problems. I know what some of you are thinking...what happened to my dog as a small puppy? Was she socialized at a very young age. After meeting and seeing her mother and the pups and meeting the owner, I truly believe that this dog was just born this way. Unfortunatley we lost her just before her second birthday to fear/stress induced gastric torsion "bloat" poor baby, but at least her last day was spent playing fetch at the park with her ball...her favorite 
That's so sad Showpug. I agree that some dogs may just be pre-disposed to certain temperment problems. My dog shows a little fear to strangers, first he is really barky (not growly though) then he acts like he is abused or something and shies away for awhile. After like half an hour or so then he'll come around and love you. We put him in obedience classes and they just started, and I've been getting him out around new people a lot more.
The family where we boarded out horses years ago had a rescued Chow...he would go crazy when anyone showed up dressed in white......the family couldn't understand it, but when I asked questions I learned he had belonged to an elderly lady who suddenly died. People in white coats carried her away .... connection???
Showdog.....what the breeders put into a dog far surpasses the past breeding. Back years ago when I read in my "
Puppy Bible " that if I didn't spend 15 min a day with each puppy at a a certain age I could consider myself a BAD BREEDER......yes it was high lighted. !!! Needless to say, each pup got that individual attention !! And it paid off for wonderfully adjusted pups. With a litter of 8 to 12 it meant alot of time for me, but the results for the pups were well worth it !
Puppy Bible " that if I didn't spend 15 min a day with each puppy at a a certain age I could consider myself a BAD BREEDER......yes it was high lighted. !!! Needless to say, each pup got that individual attention !! And it paid off for wonderfully adjusted pups. With a litter of 8 to 12 it meant alot of time for me, but the results for the pups were well worth it !
Personal Story Segment
Pit bulls under attack
Guests: Actress Linda Blair & Lisa Lange, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals
A 12-year old San Francisco boy was recently mauled to death by his pit bull, a breed known for attacking people. The Factor was joined by actress and animal rights activist Linda Blair, herself the owner of a pit bull. "A pit bull followed me home," Blair recounted, "and I learned his personality was far different than portrayed in the press. I have done a lot of research about the breed and they were never meant to be human aggressors." But Lisa Lange of PETA disputed the notion that pit bulls are no different than other dogs. "Pit bulls were bred to fight and kill other animals for human sport, and you have a lot of people who use pit bulls as macho symbols. Many of them live on chains, many are abused, and are aggressive as a result." The Factor pointed out there are statistics showing "they are twice as likely as other dogs to hurt people. You've got to be very careful with any stray dog, but particularly with that breed."
The story was on Bill O'Reilly yesterday.
Pit bulls under attack
Guests: Actress Linda Blair & Lisa Lange, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals
A 12-year old San Francisco boy was recently mauled to death by his pit bull, a breed known for attacking people. The Factor was joined by actress and animal rights activist Linda Blair, herself the owner of a pit bull. "A pit bull followed me home," Blair recounted, "and I learned his personality was far different than portrayed in the press. I have done a lot of research about the breed and they were never meant to be human aggressors." But Lisa Lange of PETA disputed the notion that pit bulls are no different than other dogs. "Pit bulls were bred to fight and kill other animals for human sport, and you have a lot of people who use pit bulls as macho symbols. Many of them live on chains, many are abused, and are aggressive as a result." The Factor pointed out there are statistics showing "they are twice as likely as other dogs to hurt people. You've got to be very careful with any stray dog, but particularly with that breed."
The story was on Bill O'Reilly yesterday.
O'Reilly has been a Pitbull hater for years. He miss quoted stats and invented others, I was watching the show.There is not stat anywhere that says pitbulls are twice as likely to harm people....that is just a flat out lie. Makes you wonder what else he is lying about? He also said if he saw a pitbull he would run up a tree. Go place for him IMHO.
BUBBATD....I totally agree with the breeder issue, but I also believe that there are genetic traits in personality that make dogs who they are. There are some dogs that are completley broken and destroyed by abuse, while others continue to love humans no matter how babdly they are treated. Temperament is somewhat bred-in to dogs. That is what makes a pug so different than a terrier etc. They have different driving traits that make them capable of being who they are. If a pug had the personality and breeding of a terrier then it would not be a pug now would it?? I truly agree that it IS the breeders responsibility to select not only a genetically and conformationally sound pair for breeding, but they MUST have stable temperaments that represeant their breed as well. When you breed a litter, you breed for the WHOLE dog with every aspect in mind. As a breeder you also dedicate the whole rearing of the litter to making sure that they are socialized and handled a ton and raised as part of the family. I totally get that, but it would be silly to assume that nurture is the only part that plays a role in the outcome of a dogs personality and temperament and completely disregard the nature factor
showpug said:
I totally get that, but it would be silly to assume that nurture is the only part that plays a role in the outcome of a dogs personality and temperament and completely disregard the nature factor
i have an (abused and rescued) Am.Staff mix..i used to be afraid of pitbull, but when i saw him, i fell in love. i have 2 children..10,6 and 2(!!!) and he loves everyone in this family. hes the sweetest dog ive ever seen. he is so thankful that we rescused him. despite his cigarette burns, and no bottom canines (thanks to the previous owner, who tried to make him viscious!!!) i dont think he would ever harm anyone. ever. but then i have a (also rescued) Min. Pin, and he would rip a strangers arm out...so its not the breed....it's the owners!!!!!!
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Funny you say that it is not the breed...I have met SO MANY incredible loving pitbulls that I have fallen in love with. On the other hand I have met SO MANY min pins that I could have lived without I do agree that owners will make or break their dogs and the responsibility is in their hands. I hope you are not getting the wrong impression about me, I love pitbulls and if you read some of my other posts you will see that I am always sticking up for them....I am also 100% AGAINST breed banns. I just like to discuss nature vs. nurture and I think they both have their impact on the outcome of a dog
I do agree that owners will make or break their dogs and the responsibility is in their hands. I hope you are not getting the wrong impression about me, I love pitbulls and if you read some of my other posts you will see that I am always sticking up for them....I am also 100% AGAINST breed banns. I just like to discuss nature vs. nurture and I think they both have their impact on the outcome of a dog oh no. i totally understand, i was one of those people who wanted pitbulls dead, i am ashamed to say. it was just the impression the media gave me...everyone has their own opinions, but now that i own (part-of) one i see it with different eyes of course i think its also possible that the genetics play a role in it too....
of course i think its also possible that the genetics play a role in it too....Well you might not believe me if you are big Factor fan but I can tell you distorted and flat out lie about the CDC findings and other stats quoted on his show.
Being a fan of Ridgebacks, if they ever out law pitbulls I think your breed would be one of the next to be exploited by the Idiots who exploit pitbulls now. It would then be your breed on the Factor.
Please check out the following website and see if you still feel the way you do.
www.furryfriendsfoundation.com/Truth03/Truth03.htm
Being a fan of Ridgebacks, if they ever out law pitbulls I think your breed would be one of the next to be exploited by the Idiots who exploit pitbulls now. It would then be your breed on the Factor.
Please check out the following website and see if you still feel the way you do.
www.furryfriendsfoundation.com/Truth03/Truth03.htm
Siemens...I respect your feelings and thoughts, but I am surprised you would trust a ridgeback around children and not a pit That is strange to me???? I am not saying ridgebacks are bad by any means, but they need an experienced owner and like pits, if they fall into the wrong hands it can mean trouble
That is strange to me???? I am not saying ridgebacks are bad by any means, but they need an experienced owner and like pits, if they fall into the wrong hands it can mean trouble
showpug said:
Siemens...I respect your feelings and thoughts, but I am surprised you would trust a ridgeback around children and not a pit That is strange to me???? I am not saying ridgebacks are bad by any means, but they need an experienced owner and like pits, if they fall into the wrong hands it can mean trouble
That is strange to me???? I am not saying ridgebacks are bad by any means, but they need an experienced owner and like pits, if they fall into the wrong hands it can mean trouble
As far as I know, ridgebacks have not been phazed by such breeding practices as pit bulls. I, personally, would not let my child around pit bull as well simply for the fact that its like playing a Russian roullete. You dont know the history of the animal... It might be nice, it might not.
A pitbull is no more Russian Roullette than anyother breed. It is not safe to leave a small child alone with any dog.
Oriondw-- From what you have said about your breed and what I have read about them since you mention them to me....They seem a lot more human aggressive than Pitbulls. And at 120+ lbs just as, (if not more) dangerous.
What I don't think many people realize is that if the Pitbull is outlawed people will find another breed to exploit and abuse. Any big tough dog would be slipped into the pitbull spot and maulings would continue. Some people feel the need to have the meanest and toughest dog available. If these crazy people who abuse these dogs aren't stopped they would turn Clumber Spaniel into the next killer. In Milwaukee WI, I see guys breeding Rotts and Bull Mastiffs to get what they think is a bigger tougher dog than the pitbull.
There is a reason why you never heard of Pitbull attacks before the crack empedimic of the 80s. Back then it was Dobs or GSD etc....
Oriondw-- From what you have said about your breed and what I have read about them since you mention them to me....They seem a lot more human aggressive than Pitbulls. And at 120+ lbs just as, (if not more) dangerous.
What I don't think many people realize is that if the Pitbull is outlawed people will find another breed to exploit and abuse. Any big tough dog would be slipped into the pitbull spot and maulings would continue. Some people feel the need to have the meanest and toughest dog available. If these crazy people who abuse these dogs aren't stopped they would turn Clumber Spaniel into the next killer. In Milwaukee WI, I see guys breeding Rotts and Bull Mastiffs to get what they think is a bigger tougher dog than the pitbull.
There is a reason why you never heard of Pitbull attacks before the crack empedimic of the 80s. Back then it was Dobs or GSD etc....