AAAAAAAAAAaaaHHH!! Heeelllppp! PLEASE!!

[kay_dragonic99]

Hello can anybody help? My 2 dogs Syrius and Spirou fight almost everyday. They get jealous of each other whenever I approach and give some attention to one of them. If I approach Syrius and pat him, Spirou will come and show his teeth to Syrius... then the latter will also try to defend his "territory" (me) and they start to stare, growl and bark more and more, and a fierce fight begins... dunno what to do, because they do this by instinct. Once I even triggered the fight myself when they were growling and staring at each other by tapping Spirou's back, trying to tell him to stop. Even a small noise can trigger and start the fight! They're completely unaware of what's happening around them during this, unless there's a loud noise that scares them. They weren't like that when they were small. They just turned 1 year old recently, they are brothers, same race (crossbreds of Dachshund and Griffon) and arrived at our house at the same time, same day. And boy it was quite hard to train them both at the same time and now that they are becoming super possessive about me, it's getting impossible to take them for a walk together. At first I let them fight, thinking that one of them would eventually turn into the dominant dog, which would completely solve the problem but it's getting even worse!!! Neither Syrius nor Spirou seem to get dominated, they just keep "rivalling" ... it feels like they can't see each other's face when I'm present. When left alone, both remain calm and just occasionally fight and even play together, but once I appear before them, the staring and growling starts again... Today I started to take them separately for walks and training. That seemed to be the only thing to do for now and of course it works wonders but I'm afraid Syrius feels I like Spirou better than him when I take only Spirou for a walk and vice versa. And considering that Spirou is a velcro dog as you call it, he keeps barking when I take only Syrius for walks!! I don't know what to do!! I desperately need help! I really miss the harmony and happiness that were present when the 2 of them played together with me!

 

[Fuzz Puppy]

Is seperating one while you pet the other an option? That way neither of them need to worry about it. And they won't get into fights.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

You are finding out firsthand why we advise people NOT to get two puppies at the same time, and NOT to have dogs of the same sex if you can help it.

If they are not neutered, I would get that done immediately.

Otherwise, you need more help than we can give you here. Please consult a qualified professional in your area.

 

[Fuzz Puppy]

I agree. A trainer might help in this situation. Good luck. Oh, are they fighting to be the leader?

 

[Doberluv]

I agree with Redyre. In the meantime, I'd seperate them and spend time with each putting them through the NILIF program.http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/nothingfree.htm I think you have a leadership problem here.They need to know that you're the leader, not either one of them. That's just a start though. You need some help from a reputable, gentle behaviorist. Let us know how things go. I wish you all the best. This is not fun.

 

[Rubylove]

You have a definite dominance issue here, one that you will need to get some professional help about. These dogs can't decide which of them is boss, and clearly do not view you as boss either, or this would not be happening.

You are their caregiver, which they obviously realise, because of the fights over your attention, but if you were truly alpha dog they would not need to vy for your affections, they would accept what you do, when you do it, without question.

I would recommend a book on positive training - ie clicker training, or Jan Fennell's `The Dog Listener'. Have a look at www.clickertraining.com and please, please get a professional behaviourist to come and look at them. I don't mean psychologist, I mean behaviourist/trainer. You need to be shown what to do here, and how to handle your pups.

We were extremely lucky many years ago to get two GSD brothers from the same litter, at the same time. We didn't know what a bad idea that was, but we were lucky they were such good boys. However, I got bitten very badly once standing in between them, when they were pups, and they decided to get into a dominance struggle. I had to steak-sized, bleeding bruises on the insides of my thighs, where they got me instead of each other. Dogs can hurt each other in these struggles - they do not hold back - and they can hurt you. We had some trainers come in after this incident, and never looked back. I would not want this to happen to you or anyone else who comes into contact with your pups. Please get some help before this can happen!

 

[kay_dragonic99]

Thank You

Thank you all. It might take some time but I'll let you know how it goes. At least now I know the source of the problem, and it was me all this time. I've read the NILIF article. The thing is that I can separate them only when I take them for walks, will that be a problem? Because I'm not allowed to let them live in the house... Yeah that sucks so we built a large concrete house for them in the garden, so when I take one of them for a walk or training, the other one will stay in that house. Or should I separate them all the time? I'm afraid this will not be possible, and I hope it will not be a prob.

I live in Mauritius and finding a trainer and behaviour specialist is kinda hard, so for now I'll go for the NILIF program. We don't have much facilities here...

You know, I've got Syrius and Spirou from my Mom's friend, and I didn't even have to pay for them. I've always wanted only one dog, perhaps another one later, but my mom's friend told me the dog would cry if he's alone so she said she would give me 2 (yeah she kinda forced me...) That sounded real stupid to me... and I knew the probs I would face when having 2 dogs at the same time, but oh well, I've got 2 dogs now and I've already got attached to both of them.

Well, anyway, thank you so much, I'll start NILIFing right away! Hope their behaviour will get better. One last thing: will they stop to fight if they know I'm the leader? Won't they get jealous again?

 

[smkie]

You are finding out firsthand why we advise people NOT to get two puppies at the same time, and NOT to have dogs of the same sex if you can help it.

If they are not neutered, I would get that done immediately.

Otherwise, you need more help than we can give you here. Please consult a qualified professional in your area.

dittttooooooo

 

[Debi]

I wouldn't feel comfortable with them together unsupervised. you may think they have 'issues' just when you are around, but believe me....left alone they could get into a fight that will end up being a disaster. find a way to separate them at all times. I may have missed it, but you didn't mention yet if they are neutered. you really MUST have that done now.

 

[Barb04]

We use gates in our house to separate the dogs. This may be something you want to look into. It's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Doberluv]

You need to seperate these dogs or re-home one of them. Bottom line. They could have a very bad fight and get terribly injured. Taking walks is one place where they could go together if you have someone else to walk one of them. When the dogs are walking together in the same direction, often that is helpful to get them somewhat accepting of eachother, as long as you or any person is taking charge and leading. You need to read up on how to be a strong, fair leader to your dogs. But when unsupervised, they must be seperated or re-home one of them. I know that sounds awful, but the reality is that these dogs don't get along and probably never will without expert handling. I'm sorry you're having this difficulty.

 

[kay_dragonic99]

Wow, it's kinda impossible for now, I'll do my best. Thank you so much for your help. By the way, they are usually quite calm when they are alone together, sometimes they growl a little, but it never gets as fierce a fight as when I'm with them. I'm at home most of the time these days and if they engage in a fight I'll know it,and it doesn't happen. I also have a look at them from the window quite often and they seem to like each other, sleeping next to each other, playing together etc... sometimes they growl and have a short fight but it looks just like a mere quarrel to me... they quickly calm down and even lick each other. Well I dunno, you have much more experience than I do, I just want to give you the maximum details I have concerning their behaviour and body language. Thank you so much guys!

 

[Fuzz Puppy]

You need to seperate these dogs or re-home one of them. Bottom line. They could have a very bad fight and get terribly injured. Taking walks is one place where they could go together if you have someone else to walk one of them. When the dogs are walking together in the same direction, often that is helpful to get them somewhat accepting of eachother, as long as you or any person is taking charge and leading. You need to read up on how to be a strong, fair leader to your dogs. But when unsupervised, they must be seperated or re-home one of them. I know that sounds awful, but the reality is that these dogs don't get along and probably never will without expert handling. I'm sorry you're having this difficulty.

I'm soory, but I agree with this a lot. If they're separated or rehomed, it can't turn into anymore trouble for you. Good luck.

 

[Doberluv]

What about getting some professional help...where someone reputable can come into your home and observe and give you some tips in person? Would that be an option? I would definintely practice NILIF with each of them to let them know that you're the one who is in charge, not either one of them.

With my two boys, they occasionally almost have a spat over something. But I let them know way ahead of time that I won't tolerate it. I give them a stern, "eh, eh." And I'll move into one of them with my body....kind of sidle up to one. They don't get to decide which one of them is going to be head chef. I do. And it's not either of them. LOL. I have very little trouble like I said, but occasionally, Lyric will pester Jose because he wants to play and will get in Jose's face. Then I tell Lyric, "leave it!" (very firmly, but not loud, lots of T at the end. LOL)

I sure hope things can get turned around. I really think that basically, it's a leadership issue and you can find out more how to show those dogs who's in charge....not them. You. (but be calm while firm) LOL.

 

[bubbatd]

Many good suggestions.... I do feel if you can re-home one , it would be better for the pups and for you . Since all my dogs were ' family " ... I would have never been able to keep separated etc.

 

[Rubylove]

Ours have the occasional scuffle, too - usually when they're getting restless. And they're still trying to sort out their pecking order. Well, Chester is - Ruby knows exactly where she stands - on top!!

We clap our hands loudly, twice, and say `Too Rough!' in a stern deep voice. Stops them every time. However, they have no inkling of such aggression when it comes to us. Unfortunately I have to agree that if you can't find someone to come and sort this out for you, you may have to rehome one of your dogs.

Impossible decision - Sophie's Choice, in fact - however it may be best in the long run. Not only these dogs, but you, could get seriously hurt if they decide to have a scuffle that you can't stop.

 

[kay_dragonic99]

Like I said before, proffessional help is quite rare in my country... That sucks!! Well, I'll do my best to separate them, but it's not possible for the time being, it will take some time to think about the best way to separate them, let it be gates or something like that, but we can't do that immediately coz I told you before that we already built a large home for both of them in the garden... For the time being, I'll take your advice on NILIF that I already started individually with them. By the way, I rarely used the leash before I asked for help in this forum, could that be the reason why this dominance issue happened? It could be this excess of freedom I gave them that caused the problem? Well, thank you so much for sharing your experience with me! I'll let you know how it goes

 

[Doberluv]

I don't know about the leash part, but I think it's a leadership issue. You just can't leave it up to dogs to figure it out. A lot of people say that you should, but I don't buy it. The human needs to be the leader and the dogs need to comply with the expectations, as long as it is within their capability. And I think with more leadership skills you might be able to get them under control. However, since there is no professional help, I don't know what to tell you besides read, read, read. LOL. See what you can find out.

Give them plenty of exercise, obedience practice and take walks together, side by side with another person helping. If you can't seperate them at other times, it is not safe to keep them both. It is not in their best interest. It's not fair to risk injury to one or both dogs.