A question about what your kids read *warning mild religious content*

[M&M's Mommy]

I have to answer this from the prospective that I was one of those kids dragged into mass every darn Sunday and I am talking about late 50's early 60's and whose mom thought that the high mass was of course the best one so it was all in Latin a and I hated every minute of it. I went to a Catholic school and Saturday Catiscism as well. I was forced to make my first communion and confession an act that scared the crap out of me then later on when I begged to no longer attend because I found it so hypocritical I was forced to be confirmed. I would go on girl scout camp outs that were started on Friday night and have to bring an egg sandwich or other non meat type of eats as the rest were roasting hot dogs and having a great time but we were not at that time allowed to eat meat on Fridays. They have since changed that but it makes me angry that I had to do penance for something that is now ok . I could never join my friends on weekends because they were to be devoted to a church I never intended to follow once I grew up. I missed a great deal of life because of religion. My parents and grandparents were devout Catholics and funny thing is that all my cousins and brothers and I are all non believers. The crap that went on in Catholic schools when I attended I would not wish on my worst enemy. Talk about abuse man you have no idea and let me say it made it very hard to believe in a loving kind God when you got the S!it beaten out of you by his so called followers. Years later my father cried and asked us kids to forgive him because he put us through that because of his beliefs. Beliefs he later abandoned as well after realizing that he passed on to us what horrors were done to him as a child as well. He recounted horror stories of being strapped by the Franciscan sisters and later on getting more of it when he got home. It took my youngest brother having an ulcer at the age of 7 to get it through my parents thick skulls that this is nothing you do to a child. I will never set foot inside a church again not even to get buried.

My goodness. I'm sorry you had to suffer through all that! It must have changed a lot since then! The Mass is now in English (or whatever local language where the church is located), and we only abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent. Catholic schools are often ranked very high compared to puplic schools in both academic & spirituality/morality performance. Nowaday, spanking/threathening is no longer considered a good mean of discipline by most parents, let alone educators. I think a lot have changed through the years... It's just too sad that you can't get pass the bad experiences you have had with the Church as a kid to give Her a second chance. I'm sure if you'll ever find it in your heart to forgive those who have hurt you, and get to know/experience God's healing touch, you'll feel better & less cricticize of the Church.

 

[Aussie Red]

My goodness. I'm sorry you had to suffer through all that! It must have changed a lot since then! The Mass is now in English (or whatever local language where the church is located), and we only abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent. Catholic schools are often ranked very high compared to puplic schools in both academic & spirituality/morality performance. Nowaday, spanking/threathening is no longer considered a good mean of discipline by most parents, let alone educators. I think a lot have changed through the years... It's just too sad that you can't get pass the bad experiences you have had with the Church as a kid to give Her a second chance. I'm sure if you'll ever find it in your heart to forgive those who have hurt you, and get to know/experience God's healing touch, you'll feel better & less cricticize of the Church.

I have been back in to one and have seen the changes. Things that as I said I had to do penance for and get the crap slapped out of me for doing is now ok so how the heck can I follow such hypocritical things ? What about all the good souls in purgatory who died with a venial sin on their souls for eating meat on Friday's are they now absolved ?

 

[ToscasMom]

Aussie, they got exonerated and Limbo got cancelled too.

 

[Boemy]

I'm with Hobbes . . .

Do you think babies are born sinful, that they come into the world as sinners?

No, I think they're just quick studies.

 

[Aussie Red]

Aussie, they got exonerated and Limbo got cancelled too.

Oh yea and I just bet they were more then happy to now go to heaven right ? I would have sued the crap out of God at that point lmao

 

[sparks19]

I understand that you are upset by what you experienced and what your father experienced and it's horrible and no one should have to be forced into a religion like that. it's sickening.

But You still seem so angry about it. It must be hard to carry that much anger around with you for so many years. I wish there was a way you could find peace with your past and move passed it.

Faith or no faith..... life is far too short to live it being angry at things we can't change

 

[sparks19]

I just wanted to tell you about these books that I am referring to.....

Someone mentioned that it would be bad for a faily to read a book about God creating things if they didn't believe in that but..... Here is an example of one of the books.

It is called

"Dear God Can we always come back- The Prodigal Son"

I can't recite it word for word but the story basically says:

There once was a man with two sons. He had lots of land and one day would leave that land to his sons. One son decided one day that he didn't want to wait for what was his and asked his father for his land now becuase he did not want to live by the rules at home anymore. The father decided to give him the land and let his son go out on his own.

The son was loving life. Spending his money, enjoying his land and just having a good time. But soon he ran out of money, food and shelter. he had to find a job. The only job he could find was cleaning pig pens. It was terrible. He wanted to go home but he didn't know if his father would let him back.

He finally decided to go home and ask his father if he could come back. To his surprise his father was already waiting for him. Everyday the father watched the hill hoping his son would come back to him. And when he finally did the father was so happy to have his son back home. The son apologized for hurting his fathers feelings and leaving home and the father said "I forgive you"

End of story

Now.... not one mention of God or creation. Other than in the title. Is this not a great story? It's a shame that the story is cast aside just because the title has the word God in it

 

[Aussie Red]

Sparks I am not angry about it. Far from it in fact rarely do I even think about it until someone trys to spread their faith into me. For those who choose to have a God and faith I say go for it. If it brings you peace and makes you feel good that is never a bad thing but for me I just can not get into the idea of something always being you know as in always was , is , and ever shall be and seeing man has only been here how long ? I can not find in the bible anywhere what happened to Dinosaurs that we know existed but no mention of them instead the Adam and Eve theory. I can not see how a woman see things as good when the bible treated woman so badly and why they would choose to follow. I can not see how this God killed the ones he loved or asked others to do so to prove their faith if he knows all then he should have known if they had it or not. Far too many inconsistencies for me to be a believer and it only leads me to one conclusion that this is something man made up because he is afraid to die and find that there is nothing after you die.

 

[milos_mommy]

^^^^ understand .... my best friend in Canada doesn't go to Church anymore either . She married a Protestant and her daughter was not brought up as a Catholic . I remember once when she come over to dinner on a Friday and Mom forgot and we had beef . She said , no worry , I'll confess it next week .

this is what i find very strange. you can KNOWINGLY sin, and assume it'll be okay because you'll apologize to God? I know so many Catholics who sit there and think about doing something wrong, and then say "oh, it's okay, i'll just confess." yet they believe people who struggle every day to avoid making mistakes or "sinning", but are not catholic and do not confess when they accidentally make a mistake, are going to hell? totally backwards IMO.

edited to say that by " you can knowingly sin" i mean catholics who do so repeatedly, not you or your friend.

 

[Aussie Red]

Yes Milo I have to agree. I would go to Sunday mass and see so many people there suffering from hang overs etc. I found it quite amusing really. It seems to me that I remember in the reading of Noah this was not acceptable.
How many women walk through the doors of a Catholic church knowing they are using birth control ? Knowing they have had their tubes tied to prevent pregnancy ? Yet this is against the church and the faiths teachings is it not ? This is why I opted to leave it not because of what happened to me as a child it was because to me almost all who walk through her doors are hypocrites as are the ones who serve her ie the priests. This is of course my opinion but that is the reason I can not nor will I ever step foot in a church again as I have tried many and they all seem to be filled with hypocrites. I can sin today and be forgiven later policy instead of just doing the right thing to begin with weather or not there is a God.

 

[M&M's Mommy]

but for me I just can not get into the idea of something always being you know as in always was , is , and ever shall be and seeing man has only been here how long ?

I can not see how this God killed the ones he loved or asked others to do so to prove their faith if he knows all then he should have known if they had it or not.

Aussie, When you disect the Bible to pieces like that, you missed the bigger picture. God challenged Abraham's faith (by asking Him to sacrifice His only son, but then stopped him just in time) - so that we may learn God is always with us, even when we're faced with great challenges. Another lesson I learn from that story is only ones with great faith in God can sacrifice something of great value for God, and they will received 10 folds. Abraham is called "Father of all those who believe" because he believed, even when he didn't understand.

I can not find in the bible anywhere what happened to Dinosaurs that we know existed but no mention of them instead the Adam and Eve theory

The Bible was not written to be a history book, nor anthropology, nor political book, so you'll never be able to use it for that purpose. From the story of Adam & Eve, what I learned is that God exists before & beyond everything, and that He brought everything into being. As for the dinosaur, God created them when He said "Let the earth bring forth all kinds of living creatures: cattle, creeping things, and wild animals of all kinds." And so it happened". Gen 1:24

I look to the Bible as a guide for living life to the fullest. It gives me a road map for the perilous journey of life. Or to put it another way, on the voyage through life's ocean, I find my anchor right here. It is a treasury of insight as to who we are: we are not meaningless robots, but we are magnificent creatures of a God who loves us and gives us a purpose and a destiny. Last but not least, it is a sourcebook for everyday living. In the Bible, we find standards for our conduct, guidelines for knowing right from wrong, principles to help us in a confused society where so often "anything goes."

There are still a lot of things we don't understand about God, simply because our mind is limited, we are limited in our time, and our world, yet God is unlimited, just like you can never contain all the water in the oceans into one small hole... it is not possible for us to "understand" God, only to believe. Jesus said so himself, "Bless are those who have not seen and yet believe" (Jn 20:29)

After all, we don’t believe in God because of what we see with our eyes, but because of what we feel in our hearts.

I can not see how a woman see things as good when the bible treated woman so badly and why they would choose to follow

Where in the Bible were woman treated badly?? There is no recorded instance where Jesus disgraces, belittles, reproaches, or stereotypes a woman. Jesus treats each of them with dignity and respect. In deed, Jesus's best friends Martha & Maria were woman . He healed many women including Peter's mother, Mary Magdalene, the woman who touched his cloak.. He forgave the woman who commited adultery while everyone else wanted to stone her.. He talked to the Samaritan woman at the well... He commanded that "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her." "So husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. "For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." (Ephesians 5:25, 28 -31)

Quite contrary to what you thought... I thought the way Jesus treated women was revolutionary. He liberated them.

 

[ToscasMom]

 

[Aussie Red]

See that is how you read it. I have long asked why and all knowing, all loving being ( GOD) had to even test ones faith should he have not known it ? Does he not know all ? Why would he put Job through so much as a test of faith ? Why test Abraham's faith did he forget he knew it all along ? Why do women suffer pain in child bearing because of Eve ? Why must we go forth and populate when we are being punished for what the first woman did ? It seemed to me that I read thou shalt not EAT not thou shalt not pick. Eve picked ! Adam ate. Anyway you read into it what you will that I have seen for years that all people get something different from each story or proverb.

 

[M&M's Mommy]

I can sin today and be forgiven later policy

Ah.. Confession is one of the least understood sacraments in the Catholic Church. In reconciling us to God, it is a great source of grace, and Catholics are encouraged to take advantage of it often. But, what is it?

First and formost, it is one of the seven sacraments recognized by the Catholic Church. Catholics believe that all of the sacraments were instituted by Jesus Christ himself. In the case of Confession, that institution occurred on Easter Sunday, when Christ first appeared to the apostles after his Resurrection. Breathing on them, he said: “Receive the Holy Spirit. For those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven; for those whose sins you retain, they are retained†(John 20:22-23).

Catholics also believe that the sacraments are an outward sign of an inward grace. In this case, the outward sign is the absolution, or forgiveness of sins, that the priest grants to the penitent (the person confessing his sins); the inward grace is the reconciliation of the penitent to God (which is why the sacrament is also sometimes called the Sacrament of Reconciliation).

Therefore, reconciling of man to God is the purpose of Confession. When we sin, we deprive ourselves of God’s grace. And by doing so, we make it even easier to sin some more. The only way out of this downward cycle is to acknowledge our sins, to repent of them, and to ask God’s forgiveness. Then, in the Sacrament of Confession, grace can be restored to our souls, and we can once again resist sin.

What Is Required?:
Three things are required of a person in order to receive the sacrament worthily:

He must be sorry for his sins and has a firm intention to no longer commit such sins.
He must confess those sins fully, in kind and in number.
He must be willing to do penance and make amends for his sins.

So, if a person merrily "sins anyway" just because he can confess it later is not what Confession is about.

Why Is Confession Necessary?:
Non-Catholics, and even many Catholics, often ask whether they can confess their sins directly to God, and whether God can forgive them without going through a priest. On the most basic level, of course, the answer is yes, and Catholics should make frequent acts of contrition, which are prayers in which we tell God that we are sorry for our sins and ask for His forgiveness.

But the question misses the point of the Sacrament of Confession. The sacrament, by its very nature, confers graces that help us to live a Christian life, which is why the Church requires us to receive it at least once per year. Moreover, it was instituted by Christ as the proper form for the forgiveness of our sins.

 

[Aussie Red]

Did you forget I was a baptized Catholic ? I believe me know all about what it is. It was well beaten into my head. I just never agreed with it. I was taught all there is to be taught 7 days a week and we had 2 family members who are priests, and 7 nuns trust me you can not teach me anything about Catholicism I do not know . I just say it is another organized religion I chose to get out of. I do however enjoy a good discussion on why one chooses to believe as why one chooses not to without name calling or preaching. I say I find it hard to understand why a all knowing all loving all forgiving entity needs to test our faith and never get a good answer. How much is a cubit ? No one has ever answered that either so in reality no one knows how large the ark really was.

 

[M&M's Mommy]

How much is a cubit?

What is a cubit?

 

[Boemy]

Some general facts about Cubits: Cubit means elbow or forearm. A cubit is an ancient unit of measure used throughout the Old Testament. The Cubit originates as early as 3000 BC (about 5000 years ago), and is the distance from the elbow to the end of the middle finger, approx. 17"-22", or 45.4 - 55.5cm. Because everyone's cubit is different, a leader or foreman would have all of the workers use his standardized cubit rod (measuring reed) at construction sites.

Boy, you can find anything on the internet.

 

[M&M's Mommy]

Boy, you can find anything on the internet.

:lol-sign:

 

[ToscasMom]

What is a cubit?

It's in the actual Bible as a measurement of the ark.

 

[Melissa_W]

I haven't read this whole thread yet, but I'm really impressed with what Sparks had to say. I'm not a Christian, but I feel the same way she does about letting your kids choose their own path.