Breeding/Showing Question

Dixie - I have to agree with ShowPug. I went to your breeders site and looked at the dogs on the website. Your breeder is what is referred to as a BYB - Back Yard Breeder. I am very sorry to say this to you but the odds are your pup will mature to look like the other adults on this site. Your breeder really doesn't seem to understand the standard as is indicated in the way she describes each dog - in particular - the color of each dog. There is only one correct color for Yorkies although differnet dogs are shaded ligher or darker than standard. So you will not see on a Yorkie show breeder's website such descriptions. Here are some examples of show breeder websites for comparison:

http://www.durreryorkies.com/
http://www.kendos.de/
http://www.northern-lites.com
http://www.pettiboneyorkies.com
http://www.tyava.com

These are JUST examples - I am not endorsing anyone here - just offering you a comparison between your kennel and a yorkie show kennel. Notice that each dam and sire has a pedigree which is spelled out and there are tons of win shots and info on how the dogs have done under certain judges? All the dogs are also impeccably groomed in the photos.

Many top kennels do not even have a website. I went looking for some kennels I know such as Rothby, Stratford, Wolpert, and came up without a link to give you! Get yourself a copy of the The Yorkshire Terrire Magazine - many of the kennels advertise there. You need to start with a dog from good lines in order to HAVE a good dog.

Again, you can certainly do juniors with your dog, you can do obedience, rallyO, flyball and possibly even agility or earthdog. So just because you can't show in breed does not mean that all your options are closed. I'm just sorry to say that having seen your breeder's website and the dogs yours is related to - as mature adults, the odds are you don't have a show dog.

Did you purchase this puppy with a show contract? What are the terms of that contract? I do hope you were not fooled into paying a high price for what the breeder knew to be a pet quality dog.

That said, you can expect to pay upwards of $1500 for a show potential puppy (notice I used the word "potential?"). It is very common to pay between 2 and 3 grand for a potential show dog among Yorkies. Some breeders charge more for the females and will include in their contract a stipulation to get a puppy back.

i know what your talking about and i noticed it way back in the thread,

i wasnt going to say anything but you said
Its highly unlikely she will get anywhere near a title, mainly because she is from a puppymill and you only have half of the pedigree.
Keeping breeder her in mind should not be an option, she is of poor quality and it will benifit her ALOT if you had her spayed now rather than later.

Shes a pretty puppy, but just as a pet, by all means get experience with her, but wait until you have a higher quality yorkie before you consider breeding

You wont be able to wrap until her coat is signficantly longer than it is now anyway - all you are going to be able to do for the time being is put her coat in oil. You do have the choice of banding (using small dentist bands where you would put wraps) or putting her in wraps and then putting a wrap jacket on over the wraps to protect them from being rubbed out. You will also need to put an end to some of the horseplay between the dogs. If you need to - you can spray some bitter apple on the wraps to keep both Dixie and your other dog from chewing on them. Wraps need to be checked daily and fixed reguarly between baths because hair can matt up under the wrap and if a wrap is dangling, it can actually cause the hair to break off at the point where the coat meets the wrap - thereby causing more harm than good. Banding will not result in a floor length coat as the hair that hits the floor will most probably break off.

I wouldn't breed her because even if her hips/eyes etc. come back as being "clean", there's a high risk of her having a recessive gene for bad hips/eyes etc. due to her background. I doubt if the breeder did any genetic testing on her dogs, therefore there's a greater chance of Dixie passing along problems than there would be with a breeder who health checks and diligently keeps track of which relatives of her breeding stock are having problems, and retiring dogs from breeding if they have too many relations with problems.

Thanks everyone!!!

All this info is really great. I do think I'm going to still do juniors with her to get a feel for it. Also, I've always been very interested in competing in an earthdog competition because Dixie has EXTREMELY high drive, and will do anything it takes to get to our gerbils. We have to keep them in a separate room from her because she will JUMP up onto my computer desk (from the floor!) and knock the cage down to try to get to Pepper, my Gerbil. I think she'd be very good at something like that. Also, I know this is getting pretty off-topic from the original subject, but I'd hate to have to make another thread. Does anyone know about training a Therapy Dog? Dixie is a very calm natured dog, and she loves people, and I've been thinking of doing Therapy work with her, but I don't know where to start. I talked with my mom, and we don't think we're going to breed her. I agree about her lineage, and THANK YOU, RD for your explaination, because it helped me understand alot. Everyone's been a great help. I'm probably not going to get another Yorkie for a while, because of course while only Dixie is really mine, we do have 3 dogs, and I want to be able to work with these guys, and then think about another addition. Also to MightyMite, we paid $1500 for Dixie....I'd gladly have paid more than that because even though she didn't turn out as planned, she's my baby, and I love her so much. If anyone could help me to find a good show breeder, I'd be very appreciative because I'd like to do my research now. Thanks again guys!!!

Hey Dixie's Mom, I was looking for a reputable yorkie breeder online the other day and boy, I wasn't having any luck. My usual technique is to google the breed's name with by common genetic tests . . . for example, "dalmation ofa cerf baer agility". (I like breeders who participate in dog sports.) Anyway, this is the best I could come up with:

http://www.shooterdog.com/eastus.htm

Not all of these breeders have websites, so it's hard to know the specifics of their breeding programs, but the list does have useful information like the percentage of litters who are champion sired, whether they sell pups on spay/neuter contracts, etc.

Hope that helps!

Thank you BOEMY!!! I'll check out that site!

Unfortunatly it is seldom done in Yorkies - including the so called "good" breeders.

Oh man, showing...breeding....which dogs are worthy of breeding and which aren't. There's so much to discuss, but let me just say a few things. A lot depends on the breed..... there are many breeds who divide into working and show lines. Now I have to say that with most of those breeds I much prefer the working lines who actually represent the pure and "unspoiled" features and are still capable of doing what they were made to do. Here is a perfect example of that kind of division.... a German Shepphard:
Show lines:


Working lines:


You can see that the difference is massive and they look like a completely different breed all together. Both come from responsible breeders that health check all their breeding stock...... quite frankly I would want to have a working Husky any day, but I can't that about some show lines whose dogs can hardly run around the ring and already feel exhausted.


My point was that not all good dogs come from show parents.... it all depends on the breeds and the breeder himself .

Not all bad dogs come from show parents either.

I for one refuse to settle for less. I want a dog that looks like it should who has a brain and some courage.

Top show dogs are not exhausted after "hardly running around a show ring". Top show dogs in almost ALL breeds are highly conditioned.

It does not have to be one or the other, even in GSDs these days you are seeing dogs with more moderate rears.

JMO as always.

You would think that, wouldn't you?! .... Well let me tell you that that's not the case at all. I visit loads of dog shows in Europe and when I find a bit more time I shall start showing my boy again. I have met so many breeders from all over Europe and some really do take care of their dogs the way they should, but many too many don't Not everything that shines is gold and I realized that it's so much more than just finding a litter of pups that home from a show breeder. There are some I know what practically live on the road traveling from one show to another and their faces are well recognized in the world of European cinology but no way i'd ever buy a dog from them. They have beautiful dogs, very healthy but unfortunately not my coup of tea.
My friend bought a Whippet from show lines and he comes from one of the most reputable and well known Italian breeders. his pups are sold for 200Euro and more, but you should have seen the state of that dog when she got him!! :yikes: He was 10 months old and has never seen a road in his life! Never been outside kennels, the only place his dogs know is the ring. They have a massive field but where the dogs run, get the best grooming, best premium food, but no individual attention. She spent another year socializing that dog and the amount of injuries he got when running outside and playing with other dogs.... he had on sense of direction at all. I remember one of the first walks in the street.... a disaster.

What i am trying to say is that show breeders do not guarantee a perfect pup. Visit each and every breeder individually and make sure that you feel comfortable about how he treats his dogs. If they have to many and if there are always some adults available and if they don't get to spend time with each individual dog, run away!!!

Dixie, as far as getting a therapy dog, check out local training facilities that offer a Canine Good Citizen class. That's the first step. Get Dixie her CGC cert and then that instructor should be able to direct you to a TDI test or even be able to do it themselves. Google both of those terms and you should get an idea of what you need to pass. TDI is a pretty demanding test, so be prepared.

There's actually a Yorkie in my CGC class right now...adorable little guy!

Thanks Zoom! I'll go google that right now.

I definately agree. If I was going to breed Dixie I would've shown her, and competed in Earthdog. Yorkies were originally bred to hunt, and kill small vermin, and Dixie definately has the drive for it!

earthdog is one of the most complex dog sports out there and the most missunderstood
its way more than just sending a dog down a hole and getting it to cum back up, thats the easy part and even that can be very difficult

I agree with you there. Most top show dogs are superbly conditioned. Sure some breeds have splits, but honestly, we're talking about a toy breed in the United States. There's not a 'working v showing' split in the breed. Toys are so swept up in the small dog fad that a breeder without titles is very suspicious looking imo. You need to look at the individual breeds. Sure, if she was looking for a GSD I wouldn't be saying conformation titles are needed absolutely to get a nice GSD, I'm a fan of the working strains myself too. But I would if she was interested in conformation, which is what the post was about.

Toys are in enough trouble as it is that we don't need more pet litters born.

Mighty- that's bad that they don't do CERF testing. Maybe luck with smaller kennels? I know some of the top kennels in paps don't either. But the smaller breeders do.

Good luck with Dixie again!

Thank you Laurelin!

Zoom, when looking up TDI and CGC I got these:

http://www.dogplay.com/Activities/Therapy/cgc.html

http://www.tdi-dog.org/tditesting.html

Are those correct sources?

I agree, if was going to breed Dixie I would've had her OFA and CERF, and when I do get my next Yorkie she'll be tested. I think breeding a dog with health issues/genetic disorders is awful.

Thank you!

Yeah, those are good sources, though I would get the CGC requirements directly from the AKC website instead of a secondary. You already found the TDI website, so that's good.

But that does outline what it entails. Every class is a little different though...our CGC program has the owners actually leave the room for the 3 minutes and the dogs are in a down-stay. Not everyone does this, but some do.

Thanks! I'll check out the one on the AKC site!