Hey, I just got back to reading some of the recent posts.
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@Ashley-hey i don't know if you'll even come back to see this, but let me start off by saying I can understand why you're reacting this way. That said, however, I also see where Dekka is coming from. The thing is, there's a lot not being said here, which is the info that Dekka is basing statements/opinions off of. The first thing is that turning a dog on their side/upside down is kinda a death threat, just scientifically. That is, to the dog, it is literally interepreted many times literally as a threat. There are exceptions probably, but I"m guessing most dogs will not interpret the roll kindly. In addition to not being effective for the most part, these strategies might get their owner in trouble!
The frustration/confusion regarding 'limit-setting' is another thing; people may have read your posts and taken it that you just don't know what you're doing. And the thing is: I am in the same boat! I would get FRUSTRATED UP THE WAZOO from my puppy! And I had no idea what I was doing wrong: no matter what I did (hence this THREAD), it just made her bite harder. And this is when I considered the alpha-roll ish type training as well. But the thing is, I'm starting to get convinced that I was mistaken at this junction, and that current science heavily frowns on these 'dominance training' stuffs.
And though my puppy stills bites (silly puppy), it doesn't mean I'm going to turn to the dominance tactics. The fact that the puppy struggles hard against the alpha roll is probably evidence of how threatening it is. But overall, thx for your attempt to help, but I hope you understand where your received comments are probably coming from, and won't take them as personal attack
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@Lizzy: about the vet comment, its so true. Vet's are geniuses, but they don't know everything. My vet knows tons about puppy health, but told us to throw toys at it when it chewed (HAD NO IDEA! about bite inhibition training). It was hopeless explaining what I meant by "I'm gonna let my puppy bite my hands!", lol, so I just gave up trying, and explained to my parents outside of the room why it was I was doing what I was doing and probably why the Vet seemingly was objecting (misinterpreting).
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Ooo yea. so phoebe. I can't believe I didn't mention this yet, I thought I did:
PHOEBE IS GREAT. She's like the most patient older sister I've ever seen. Wanta was 'acting in reverse' today: that is usually she was the one chasing the other dog making their life hell. Today she was running and growling whenever friendly Phoebe came close. And this time it WAS cute and funny b/c Phoebe would keep on coming closer to Wanta and sniffing with her tail wagging in full speed. Even when Wanta backed and growled, Phoebe came with tail wagging and patiently keeping a safe distance. And silly Wanta would growl/sneer, but when Phoebe turned around Wanta would chase at her a little and then growl while backing up when Phoebe cam eback. We were like "no one is going to take you seriously, who BACKS UP while growling". Lol 'make up your mind!'
I was curious why the role was reversed, but it was amazingly cute to interact with Phoebe b/c she was JUST LIKE my dog (genetics probably). The behavior was very similar; they had the same mannerisms, energy, and hyper-chase the other dog around friendliness. But I was curious to see that Wanta was the one growling/hiding this time. It seems at this point Wanta loves people (licked Phoebe's owner to death) but didn't trust dogs as much.
And this was weird since she was also chasing Dukie. I had two main hypotheses:
#1. this was Phoebe's territory, AKA not home, and foreign. This is the most likely answer
#2. Wanta didn't know dog's as infinitely patient/friendly as Phoebe existed. After having negative experiences with Ginger, Wanta has sworn off other dogs, especially those larger than her. This is not as likely.
And it's because Wanta has 0% of the time been confident outside of the home with other dogs. I don't think its a coincidence. It would also be kinda pessimistic/negative-nancy to blame Ginger for everything.
All in all, leaving Wanta with a family that loves dogs and has a dog that is both related to my puppy and also containing infinite patience/kindness is a huge plus for my SF trip with my family. I feel much more relieved; MUCH
I have faith that Wanta will eventually learn to trust Phoebe (hopefully warranted), and I have a feeling forumers would support this move as FINALLY being good for my dog as well (PROPER socialization). It should be noted that my conversation with Sarah (the owner) was a LOT less like with my Aunt. Phoebe has been to dog parks most of the time, although its been said she exhibits the same 'fraidy cat' behavior as my dog. They are so smiliar it looks like a mirror into the future when they play.
Which is yet another secuirty for me: Sarah probably already raised "wanta" once already. She wasn't phased at all to see my puppy rolling her lips up for a growl. the bluff wasn't called and Sarah became instant friends with Wanta like a hot knife through butter. Very unlike that..mm..interesting lady at the vet office...who voluntered herself to pluck at my puppy's mouth/teeth saying "open your mouth lemme see your cute teeth..lemme see..". I was like...um....lady...yeaaa....back awaaay.. [lol note it wasn't like she worked at the office, she was having her dog checked up on]
~
*biting update: puppy is still biting but I'm learning not to be so hasty with expectations. Puppies will be puppies, and I'll let those "little sharks" be for a while. But that doesn't mean I'm not continuing with my attempts to teach; for example, the time outs still continue. I can only hope she gets it eventually. At least she lets me rub the inside of her mouth/teeth without chomping on me; I consider this as better than nothing
~
@Ashley-hey i don't know if you'll even come back to see this, but let me start off by saying I can understand why you're reacting this way. That said, however, I also see where Dekka is coming from. The thing is, there's a lot not being said here, which is the info that Dekka is basing statements/opinions off of. The first thing is that turning a dog on their side/upside down is kinda a death threat, just scientifically. That is, to the dog, it is literally interepreted many times literally as a threat. There are exceptions probably, but I"m guessing most dogs will not interpret the roll kindly. In addition to not being effective for the most part, these strategies might get their owner in trouble!
The frustration/confusion regarding 'limit-setting' is another thing; people may have read your posts and taken it that you just don't know what you're doing. And the thing is: I am in the same boat! I would get FRUSTRATED UP THE WAZOO from my puppy! And I had no idea what I was doing wrong: no matter what I did (hence this THREAD), it just made her bite harder. And this is when I considered the alpha-roll ish type training as well. But the thing is, I'm starting to get convinced that I was mistaken at this junction, and that current science heavily frowns on these 'dominance training' stuffs.
And though my puppy stills bites (silly puppy), it doesn't mean I'm going to turn to the dominance tactics. The fact that the puppy struggles hard against the alpha roll is probably evidence of how threatening it is. But overall, thx for your attempt to help, but I hope you understand where your received comments are probably coming from, and won't take them as personal attack
~
@Lizzy: about the vet comment, its so true. Vet's are geniuses, but they don't know everything. My vet knows tons about puppy health, but told us to throw toys at it when it chewed (HAD NO IDEA! about bite inhibition training). It was hopeless explaining what I meant by "I'm gonna let my puppy bite my hands!", lol, so I just gave up trying, and explained to my parents outside of the room why it was I was doing what I was doing and probably why the Vet seemingly was objecting (misinterpreting).
~
Ooo yea. so phoebe. I can't believe I didn't mention this yet, I thought I did:
PHOEBE IS GREAT. She's like the most patient older sister I've ever seen. Wanta was 'acting in reverse' today: that is usually she was the one chasing the other dog making their life hell. Today she was running and growling whenever friendly Phoebe came close. And this time it WAS cute and funny b/c Phoebe would keep on coming closer to Wanta and sniffing with her tail wagging in full speed. Even when Wanta backed and growled, Phoebe came with tail wagging and patiently keeping a safe distance. And silly Wanta would growl/sneer, but when Phoebe turned around Wanta would chase at her a little and then growl while backing up when Phoebe cam eback. We were like "no one is going to take you seriously, who BACKS UP while growling". Lol 'make up your mind!'
I was curious why the role was reversed, but it was amazingly cute to interact with Phoebe b/c she was JUST LIKE my dog (genetics probably). The behavior was very similar; they had the same mannerisms, energy, and hyper-chase the other dog around friendliness. But I was curious to see that Wanta was the one growling/hiding this time. It seems at this point Wanta loves people (licked Phoebe's owner to death) but didn't trust dogs as much.
And this was weird since she was also chasing Dukie. I had two main hypotheses:
#1. this was Phoebe's territory, AKA not home, and foreign. This is the most likely answer
#2. Wanta didn't know dog's as infinitely patient/friendly as Phoebe existed. After having negative experiences with Ginger, Wanta has sworn off other dogs, especially those larger than her. This is not as likely.
And it's because Wanta has 0% of the time been confident outside of the home with other dogs. I don't think its a coincidence. It would also be kinda pessimistic/negative-nancy to blame Ginger for everything.
All in all, leaving Wanta with a family that loves dogs and has a dog that is both related to my puppy and also containing infinite patience/kindness is a huge plus for my SF trip with my family. I feel much more relieved; MUCH
I have faith that Wanta will eventually learn to trust Phoebe (hopefully warranted), and I have a feeling forumers would support this move as FINALLY being good for my dog as well (PROPER socialization). It should be noted that my conversation with Sarah (the owner) was a LOT less like with my Aunt. Phoebe has been to dog parks most of the time, although its been said she exhibits the same 'fraidy cat' behavior as my dog. They are so smiliar it looks like a mirror into the future when they play.
Which is yet another secuirty for me: Sarah probably already raised "wanta" once already. She wasn't phased at all to see my puppy rolling her lips up for a growl. the bluff wasn't called and Sarah became instant friends with Wanta like a hot knife through butter. Very unlike that..mm..interesting lady at the vet office...who voluntered herself to pluck at my puppy's mouth/teeth saying "open your mouth lemme see your cute teeth..lemme see..". I was like...um....lady...yeaaa....back awaaay.. [lol note it wasn't like she worked at the office, she was having her dog checked up on]
~
*biting update: puppy is still biting but I'm learning not to be so hasty with expectations. Puppies will be puppies, and I'll let those "little sharks" be for a while. But that doesn't mean I'm not continuing with my attempts to teach; for example, the time outs still continue. I can only hope she gets it eventually. At least she lets me rub the inside of her mouth/teeth without chomping on me; I consider this as better than nothing
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