Omg Guess What!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gaddylovesdogs]

Manchester you are probably one of the rudest, most ignorant people I've met on this board. You act as if you know everything and everybody else knows nothing. You treat everybody but yourself like dirt.

Puppy mills and BYBs will sell their puppies before EIGHT weeks. EIGHT weeks is an appropriate time for many breeds to go to their new homes.

 

[Doberluv]

Anyone educated about dogs knows that 8 weeks is a very appropriate time to get the pups to their new homes. They are starting their first fear period and that's when the optimum bonding to their new owner takes place. Socialization too, is best started early, of course taking care about exposure to parvo and the like.

My Doberman breeder has had the #1 Doberman in the country a few times over, has recently been awarded breeder of the year award, not only for Dobermans, but for all breeds. She gives her pups up between 8-10 weeks, depending on the ear healing. Reputable breeders don't sell through the newspaper and do take care about genetic health testing, among other things.

Anyhow, congratulations on your new puppy. I can see you're thrilled. There are some things that are good to learn when getting a pup. Now it's up to you to socialize the dickens out of this puppy, get him a check up by the vet and start some basic obedience skills. Lots of love and patience and positive methods for training (not to be mistaken for permissiveness) and you'll have yourself a fine dog, I'm sure.

Don't listen to doomsdayers. If you want good, accurate, educated and friendly, upbeat information, go on the AKC and/or your parent breed club websites and there's all kinds of neat stuff. A crate is a great thing to assist with housebreaking and to use when you can't watch the pup. They are like little toddlers who get into everything. But, I've had dogs for over 40 years and we didn't use to use crates. I don't know how I did it, but did it. LOL.They are helpful, but shouldn't be used excessively. I don't like a dog being locked up all day long. Four hours in a day is quite enough. They need exercise and companionship.

Good luck. Actually, you won't need luck. You'll be a fine puppy owner.

 

[bubbatd]

I don't mess with Manchester anymore ......I placed my babies as close as I could the 8th week..it always had to be a Friday evening or Saturday morning to spend their 1st days with all members of the family. I would have loved to keep them longer...BUT this was the best for them , as Doberluv said .

 

[Doberluv]

Gaddy, Big Dog, ....example: when your dog does something you don't like, all you have to do is remove the payoff and not give any attention and eventually the behavior extinguishes itself. Attention perpetuates it, even negative attention. And when that behavior continues to simmer there, it tends to be a risk that the dog will forever exibit and feed off of or self reward from that behavior, which isn't healthy for the dog or for those who are around the dog.

 

[showpug]

Manchesters....I agree and see where you are coming from and although others may take it as "harsh" I can read between the lines and see the passion you have for your dogs and preserving the breed.

I would like to mention in manchester's defense that she breeds and shows fairly small dogs. Smaller breeds, along with toy breeds should be held on to longer because they mature slower than bigger dogs. I never take a pug home that is younger than 10-11 weeks, they adjust better and seem to settle in nicely at this age.

I don't think manchester's intent was to put down the pet owners. I think she is just protective over her dogs and sick of hearing of people who breed dogs for all the wrong reasons. If you read one of the posts on this thread from the original poster it stated that if the "breeder" did not sell the dog in a week it was going to the pound. When I read stuff like that it makes me livid too!!!!

 

[EliNHunter]

Manchesters....I agree and see where you are coming from and although others may take it as "harsh" I can read between the lines and see the passion you have for your dogs and preserving the breed.

I would like to mention in manchester's defense that she breeds and shows fairly small dogs. Smaller breeds, along with toy breeds should be held on to longer because they mature slower than bigger dogs. I never take a pug home that is younger than 10-11 weeks, they adjust better and seem to settle in nicely at this age.

I don't think manchester's intent was to put down the pet owners. I think she is just protective over her dogs and sick of hearing of people who breed dogs for all the wrong reasons. If you read one of the posts on this thread from the original poster it stated that if the "breeder" did not sell the dog in a week it was going to the pound. When I read stuff like that it makes me livid too!!!!

That could all be very true and accurate (hell, I don't know about the "little" breeds). But the comment about breeders foisting off their substandard puppies to us evil "pet owners" because the purebred isn't show or breeding material in their eyes and they just wanted to "make a buck" is totally insane. Guess all us horrid "pet owners" should only get a purebred from a "breeder" if we are going to breed or show. Guess we're supposed to go to a petstore in a mall and buy a cute little, sick puppy for $1500 and subsidize puppy mills .

 

[showpug]

That could all be very true and accurate (hell, I don't know about the "little" breeds). But the comment about breeders foisting off their substandard puppies to us evil "pet owners" because the purebred isn't show or breeding material in their eyes and they just wanted to "make a buck" is totally insane. Guess all us horrid "pet owners" should only get a purebred from a "breeder" if we are going to breed or show. Guess we're supposed to go to a petstore in a mall and buy a cute little, sick puppy for $1500 and subsidize puppy mills .

I am not trying to upset you by agreeing with manchesters, I am just saying that I see her point as well. I think that "show" breeders should sell to the responsible public and if more did, then we wouldn't have so many backyard breeders and puppy mills because good quality puppies would be more readily available to pet owners. You must understand that when someone shows dogs they are usually whole heartedly in it for the betterment of the breed and you do that by improving on each generation and showing your dogs. If a "show" breeder breeds a litter and the puppy has faults are disqualifications then they place them in a pet home. That isn't calling pet owners evil, it's just a fact and there is nothing wrong with that. Please understand that the majority of show people have their dogs as pets first and foremost. I guess I just read her post differently and didn't take offense.

 

[EliNHunter]

Ok, then how about taking the stance of rescues and have the breeders foisting off substandard puppies can only do it if they have been spayed/neutered? If it's such an epidemic, than I would say that would stop it pretty quick in its tracks...

 

[showpug]

Ok, then how about taking the stance of rescues and have the breeders foisting off substandard puppies can only do it if they have been spayed/neutered? If it's such an epidemic, than I would say that would stop it pretty quick in its tracks...

I don't know if I quite follow? Responsible reputable breeders DO require their pet puppies to go out on spay and neuter contracts. That is what manchesters said in her post...that was part of her point in the first or second paragraph, that no reputable breeder allows their pets to leave their homes without a spay/neuter contract AND any reputable breeder would have you sign a document stating that if you can't keep the pup it MUST be returned to them. If all breeders did this then there wouldn't be many dogs in rescues now would there? I guess if you want to argue the specifics of what manchesters had to say, you will have to speak with her about it. Oh, and when puppies were referred to as sub-standard, that isn't a derogatory remark, it just means that they didn't meet the standard needed to be shown or kept in a breeding program. No one said that they were any less lovable or worthy. My male pug in my siggy is far from a show dog and in fact, he is a rescue....I love him just the same as my show dogs.

 

[EliNHunter]

I don't know if I quite follow? Responsible reputable breeders DO require their pet puppies to go out on spay and neuter contracts. That is what manchesters said in her post...that was part of her point in the first or second paragraph, that no reputable breeder allows their pets to leave their homes without a spay/neuter contract AND any reputable breeder would have you sign a document stating that if you can't keep the pup it MUST be returned to them. If all breeders did this then there wouldn't be many dogs in rescues now would there? I guess if you want to argue the specifics of what manchesters had to say, you will have to speak with her about it. Oh, and when puppies were referred to as sub-standard, that isn't a derogatory remark, it just means that they didn't meet the standard needed to be shown or kept in a breeding program. No one said that they were any less lovable or worthy. My male pug in my siggy is far from a show dog and in fact, he is a rescue....I love him just the same as my show dogs.

My apologies if I didn't read Man's posts accordingly. And if what you post is true, than I did read it wrong. I am glad there are clauses (although in the honesty-pot-kind-of-way) that a dog not going to be bred to further the breed (by another KNOWLEDGEABLE owner) or showed (by a KNOWLEDGEABLE show-er), than there's no reason for this new owner not to spay/neuter. And the clause that they must come back to the breeder is a must. That's how Chip came back to bubbatd... he was her "offspring" and when she found out they couldn't handle having a dog, she got him back in a heartbeat. I understand, now...

 

[showpug]

My apologies if I didn't read Man's posts accordingly. And if what you post is true, than I did read it wrong. I am glad there are clauses (although in the honesty-pot-kind-of-way) that a dog not going to be bred to further the breed (by another KNOWLEDGEABLE owner) or showed (by a KNOWLEDGEABLE show-er), than there's no reason for this new owner not to spay/neuter. And the clause that they must come back to the breeder is a must. That's how Chip came back to bubbatd... he was her "offspring" and when she found out they couldn't handle having a dog, she got him back in a heartbeat. I understand, now...

Glad I finally managed to speak clearly...have trouble with that sometimes. I know how passionate you are about your dogs and I think that is awesome. I consider myself a "show" person, but my dogs will always be first and foremost my best friends and lap warmers of course!!!!

 

[EliNHunter]

Glad I finally managed to speak clearly...have trouble with that sometimes. I know how passionate you are about your dogs and I think that is awesome. I consider myself a "show" person, but my dogs will always be first and foremost my best friends and lap warmers of course!!!!

Showpug... just curious... did you find a plethora of people want pugs after the movie "As Good As It Gets"? Wasn't that a pug in that movie? Sooo cute. But having the "cute and sweet all breed dog" in movies usually ends up with so many in rescue a year later... just wondering...

 

[stirder]

the point is that no matter what manchesters was trying to say, he/she didnt say it correctly, generalized WAY too much, and every post Ive read of Manchesters is extremely rude, and the vast majority have been very innacurate. you say toy breeds mature slowly? are you aware that nearly all of the medium-large breeds of dogs arent physically mature untill 12-18 months old? and very few of them are mentally mature untill 2-4 years old??? okay, maybe they do...be specific next time manchesters, say that a responsible breeders of TOY breeds dont allow pups to go to new homes untill 10 weeks of age. just saying responsible breeders period dont let their pups go home before 10 weeks is completely wrong. and why dont you try being nice next time.

that was a brussels griffon in as good as it gets. pugs were in milo and otis though...did that influence people wanting pugs?

 

[showpug]

Showpug... just curious... did you find a plethora of people want pugs after the movie "As Good As It Gets"? Wasn't that a pug in that movie? Sooo cute. But having the "cute and sweet all breed dog" in movies usually ends up with so many in rescue a year later... just wondering...

Don't get me started!!!!!!! Okay, you started it! No, the dog in the movie "Men in Black" was a Brussles Griffon, but close to a pug. Doesn't matter though because "Men in Black" REALLY did our breed in! Years ago when I was hunting for my first pug, they were rare and seldom seen. Today, after the many movies they have been in they are climbing the AKC charts in popularity with a vengence! You can't go anywhere without seeing them and there are a ton in rescue groups. People are breeding them so incorrectly that it is sad and I am so sorry to see it. They have come up with the "rare brindle pug" which is not an acceptible color and a result of mixed breeding...now they sell it to make money. I guess my mission is to take time to talk with the public that approaches me at dog shows. I always try to set aside time to answer questions about the breed and give them the honest truth. Yes, I get angry when people ask me about brindle pugs, but I never get mad at the people. I just simply try to explain to them how that is not a true pug. I want people who are interested in the breed to hear the good and the bad and the truth and the lies. I feel like it is my job as an exhibitor to help educate people and stop them from purchasing pugs without thinking it through first. I can't stand the show people that are unwilling to speak with the public or give the cold shoulder. That is so rotten

 

[stirder]

nobody mentioned men in black...men in black WAS a pug, as good as it gets was a brussels griffon. not trying to step on any toes, but its true.

 

[BigDog2191]

nobody mentioned men in black...men in black WAS a pug, as good as it gets was a brussels griffon. not trying to step on any toes, but its true.

You beat me to it.

But speaking of movies that really killed certain breeds, take a look at 101 Dalmations... wow... Dalmations were in shelters like crazy.

 

[EliNHunter]

I know about a year or so after 101 Dalmations was out, the Dalmation Rescue Groups all over the nation had to be forced closed due to too many dogs

 

[becca_4321]

I'm sorry, I dont mean to change the subject or take over this, but I just have to say this, I feel so sorry for the pugs! I look at Kokomo, listen to him breath and wonder what the heck was they thinking! Dont get me wrong, I love that little guy, I just feel so bad for them.

 

[bubbatd]

You are all on the right track !!! Of the over 100 pups bred by me or chosen mates in 40 yrs. everyone was spayed or neutered. I only sold to responsible owners, and after they saw what I put into breeding , they rather come back to me than do it on their own. It's all in education and contracts .

 

[Adrienne]

Manchester said:
How many here have gotten puppies that MUST be spayed and neutered or the papers will not be furnished? How many have bought puppies from people who have completely health tested the parent dogs? Not many, huh? Very sad.

Just wanted to add that Katya came spayed to us from N.J. flew all the way to MN at 10 weeks, could have been a showdog but was the only pup from the litter with the right trigger response level so the breeder was willing to let her go due to a contract with us. She is one of the top breeders of CO's in the U.S. and would rather have a dog go to a good pet home than become yet another showdog which she had enough of already.

Now while it is nice to be able to get a dog with that kind of background it is just not very realistic. There are too many ignorant people out there that will continue to BYB, develop "new" breeds, sell to labratories, etc. and thank God for all the good people who give these dogs good loving homes regardless of their history.