garyluer said:
If someone competes in agility or obedience then it's a prerequisite that the dog is trained. Have you ever seen a shock collar or prong collar on those dogs? Kids that let their dog out? Fenced yards and if the kids don't know any better then they shouldn't have a dog anyway. A dog park. They require leashes. Hunting dog? I raised a golden lab to point, flush, and retrieve and to obey only hand signals. I NEVER used prongs or shock to do so either.
You can posit all sorts of "What ifs." The bottom line is there's no guarantee in life.
And sorry if this sounds judgemental but I'm only stating my opinion in this debate. Don't take it personally.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. However the statement regarding kids and the fenced yard makes me believe that you don't have kids. I have 3 1/2 and 1 1/2 y/o daughters and accidents do happen. When their dad comes home and one of them rushes to the door to greet him for example and I'm making dinner and don't get there before they do (opportunity for the dog to run out unless in a crate or something), fenced yard is in the back, not the front so it's not going to do much good in this situation. I personally haven't used shock collar or pinch collars on my dogs but I would if I thought it would protect and save their life.
My parents house is on a corner lot near a very busy street. They got a puppy about 3 wks ago and take him out at all times on a regular collar/leash. However, they have a shock collar for him as well in case he gets free from the leash somehow, or one of the grandkids opens the door etc... When the dog has it on and is approaching the line (invisible fence) the collar beeps to warn. The dog can learn from the beep and never have to be shocked.
In life there are consequences for actions, they may be positive and sometimes the may need to be negative. If my daughter runs toward the road when I have told her to stop, ABSOLUTELY she will get spanked and disciplined, because she needs to learn that one way or another, when you make the wrong choice it's going to hurt. I would rather hurt her behind from a spanking (so she will remember and think twice to prevent getting it again) than not have my child around b/c she didn't know better and I didn't care enough to enforce my rule/guidelines! My point is, that it is similar w/ dogs in that they have to be taught for their well being and the well being of others. In extreme situations, to actually protect the dog and others, I would use a shock collar/choke collar.
I am in no way trying to "convince" you or anyone else one way or another. I guess I'm just trying to tell you that it's one thing to say you don't agree and that you never will, and it's another to basically say if you have kids around that don't know any better you shouldn't have dogs. We all aren't in the same situations, with the same families, lifestyles, animals etc..... so there are a lot of "what ifs" to be taken into consideration if you want to be a responsible owner. I took into consideration a ton of what if's b/f deciding to get our puppy. Now I at least have some what of a plan of action before he even gets here.
Jamie
Watcj how the militaryh K-9 units train their dogs. They use positive reinforcement.
