Off on the wrong foot

[Ebony923]

It isnt true that if you get a dog spayed they will gain weight is it????

 

[Ebony923]

Ebony and Julie it's an expression, not to be taken so literally.

What do you mean????????? Whats an expression????

 

[Julie]

Ebony and Julie it's an expression, not to be taken so literally.

Well it sounded to me that you were accusing anyone using anything other than positive reinforcement were abusing their dogs, and it is equal to beating them to submission.

So, I would just like everyone to know I have never beat a dog, I have never struck a dog. But I have used a shock collar ( I won't even say e-collar cause I am just not a politically correct person) and I have used a prong collar, but here it is called a pinch collar. I have also used the shock collar on my husband. And I have actually put a pinch collar around my neck and hooked it to a leash to see the actual feel of what I would do to my dogs.

My dogs are happy, and not submissive in the least, but they do follow commands. Which for their safety is very important.

 

[Saje]

If a dog is getting enough exercise if won't get weight regardless of whether or not it is spayed. However, getting her spayed will probably help keep her in the yard since she won't have the same urge to stray. I assume you have a fence that she is jumping? I would strongly recommend that you find a better alternative to keeping her tied up. Tying a dog up leaves them vulenerable and I've found that it can make them more aggressive too since you are taking away their 'flight' option and leave them only with 'fight'. If that makes sense. If your only option is tying her be sure to supervise. It would be better for you to take her out and exercise her yourself. A tired dog is a good dog (and hopefully one that won't try to jump out of the yard!)

 

[Ebony923]

I wasnt sayin that and i use a "choker" chain to train my dog. Also I would never accussed anybody of abusing their dog if they werent accutually abusing them. Sorry. And I am very pleased that you have enough consideration to actually test the training tool pn yourself before using it on your dog, it's nifty and yes i have used the choker on myself to see what it feels like .

 

[Julie]

I wasnt sayin that and i use a "choker" chain to train my dog. Also I would never accussed anybody of abusing their dog if they werent accutually abusing them. Sorry. And I am very pleased that you have enough consideration to actually test the training tool pn yourself before using it on your dog, it's nifty and yes i have used the choker on myself to see what it feels like .

Ebony,
I was not referring to you in my post.

 

[Boxer*Mom]

Wow you got all that from me saying I think dogs should be cared for like anyone would a child?! I never even mentioned the positive reinforcement training or any other type. It was more a play on the o.p. sig. than anything else I responded to in the first place.

 

[Gallien Jacks]

If a dog is getting enough exercise if won't get weight regardless of whether or not it is spayed.

do you mean they wont put weight on?

 

[garyluer]

Maybe someone that competes in agility or obedience? Maybe the trial just happens to be held outdoors. Or maybe someone that has kids that let their dog out? Possibly someone that hunts? Or what about a dog park? Or, *gasp* your dog sitter was walking the dog, the dog starts pulling, and the leash slips from his/her hand?

Things happen. You cannot always be so judgemental of others and their choices and/or mistakes. Sometimes things aren't always just a lack of responsibility or supervision. And when those accidents happen, it is best to have a dog with a reliable recall.

If someone competes in agility or obedience then it's a prerequisite that the dog is trained. Have you ever seen a shock collar or prong collar on those dogs? Kids that let their dog out? Fenced yards and if the kids don't know any better then they shouldn't have a dog anyway. A dog park. They require leashes. Hunting dog? I raised a golden lab to point, flush, and retrieve and to obey only hand signals. I NEVER used prongs or shock to do so either.

You can posit all sorts of "What ifs." The bottom line is there's no guarantee in life.

And sorry if this sounds judgemental but I'm only stating my opinion in this debate. Don't take it personally.

 

[Julie]

Wow you got all that from me saying I think dogs should be cared for like anyone would a child?! I never even mentioned the positive reinforcement training or any other type. It was more a play on the o.p. sig. than anything else I responded to in the first place.

No, I got that from your post that said about beating a dog until submissive.
And I don't see anyone here ever doing that.

To me when you raise a question of someone beating a dog, it is not an Just an Expression.

 

[Boxer*Mom]

i did not say anyone was doing that or assume it. some people do spank, slap, whip, jerk their kids around, or beat them because that's how they discipline and they think it works. which is something i personally do not agree with. a lot of those like minded people do that to animals too. it went along with my statement that people should care for their pets like they would a child. i really don't see how this caused such a tizzy? guess it's not as self explanotory as i thought.

 

[tessa_s212]

Kids that let their dog out? Fenced yards and if the kids don't know any better then they shouldn't have a dog anyway.

Oh, so now persons that have children should never own a dog? Children make mistakes. You cannot expect them not to make mistakes.

 

[Gallien Jacks]

i did not say anyone was doing that or assume it. some people do spank, slap, whip, jerk their kids around, or beat them because that's how they discipline and they think it works. which is something i personally do not agree with. a lot of those like minded people do that to animals too. it went along with my statement that people should care for their pets like they would a child. i really don't see how this caused such a tizzy? guess it's not as self explanotory as i thought.

Yes I feel that dopgs should be treated like a mamber of the family because thats what they are

 

[Julie]

If someone competes in agility or obedience then it's a prerequisite that the dog is trained. Have you ever seen a shock collar or prong collar on those dogs? Kids that let their dog out? Fenced yards and if the kids don't know any better then they shouldn't have a dog anyway. A dog park. They require leashes. Hunting dog? I raised a golden lab to point, flush, and retrieve and to obey only hand signals. I NEVER used prongs or shock to do so either.

You can posit all sorts of "What ifs." The bottom line is there's no guarantee in life.

And sorry if this sounds judgemental but I'm only stating my opinion in this debate. Don't take it personally.

Dog Parks do not require leashes. At least none that I know of. That is the point.

Hunting dog? No such thing as a golden lab. Unless you are referring to a mix of golden retriever and labrador retriever.

 

[Gallien Jacks]

http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/ look at breed standered and then gundog and then all the different labd retriever etc

take a look at this, I think its called different things in different places

 

[garyluer]

Dog Parks do not require leashes. At least none that I know of. That is the point.

Hunting dog? No such thing as a golden lab. Unless you are referring to a mix of golden retriever and labrador retriever.

Golden lab - yellow lab. Same diff. Never took my dogs to a dog park. I stand corrected.

 

[Julie]

http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/ look at breed standered and then gundog and then all the different labd retriever etc

take a look at this, I think its called different things in different places

It might be called different things but this website classifies

Golden Retrievers.........okay
and
Labrador Retrievers colors are....yellow black and liver/chocolate.(In the states referred to as chocolate usually)

There is no golden labradors.

Only yellow, chocolate, and black.

 

[garyluer]

Well, whatever your opinion on "training" just the thought of using a e-collar or prong collar on my dog (below) is repugnant to me. And, as stated before, that's just my opinion.

 

[Gallien Jacks]

Oh a confusing breed lol, I have always herd them called golden here

 

[Julie]

Well, whatever your opinion on "training" just the thought of using a e-collar or prong collar on my dog (below) is repugnant to me. And, as stated before, that's just my opinion.

I understand your concern with shock collars and pinch collars.

I am going to explain a little about my dogs and my personal experiences.
I do not have only house dogs. All of them have other jobs to do too.
The GSD is a patrol dog. Although I have never used either of these on her. She has perfect manners, and great listening ability. She was already trained when we got her. I bet she already had at least one of these used during her training. She is the best.

My labs - hunting dogs. This is where I have seldomly used the shock collar and pinch collar. These dogs know all basic obedience and well. But when a sheep, cow, or other farm animal darts from a hunting spot, it is in their safety to be 100% sure they will not give chase. A farmer can shoot your dog on the spot for as little as "worrying" their livestock. In the past my labs have been shocked off of livestock. This is really in their best interest. I have not had a working shock collar for over a year now. And I still can be sure that they will not give chase.

And as far as I know, a dog cannot be trained to point....it is something that comes naturally that you can impress and hone.
And beware of breeders that catorgorize a seperate breed of "pointing labs".
There is not a seperate breed of "pointing labs".

And my dogs know hand signals too.

garyluer,
Did you train your hunting dog with FF? In my opinion this is worse than perfecting skills with a shock collar or pinch collar.

Neither of my labs were trained using FF. And I have no problems with them holding and caring a bird on a retrieve.
Maybe I will post some more hunting pics of them and the birds. But it just seems to repulse people.