Just curious, how many of you believe in a higher power?

[sparks19]

True, but you can still do something that's illogical even though you recognize that it's so. That's just going against your sense.

And some day it may not even be a case of going against logic. Our understanding of the brain is very fledgling right now, but down the road you may just get hooked up to a machine and they essentially go "this is who you're compatible with, pick one".

Takes the thrill out of the hunt but I wouldn't doubt for an instant that it'd be possible to do.


Until then, we're stuck with having faith in our choice. Illogical as it may be. Thing is, it's not entirely illogical because no one picks a person off the street and goes "I'm marrying you". Primarily because it kinda requires consent but let's say that both parties consent to that. Very few would do that and expect it to work out. You're still basing your decision on past interactions, experiences, and knowledge of that person.

So it's not an entirely illogical process. You have to have faith in your relationship but it's faith grounded in fact.

No one just comes to a church or what have you and says "Ok I choose you"... well actually I'm sure SOME people do that just as I'm sure some people say "let's go to vegas and get married" after knowing the person a week lol. But people of real faith in God don't just say OK I'm going to believe in God now. they do A LOT of soul searching and what not... sort of like MOST responsible people do before they choose to marry someone.

Of course.. I say most because we all know that a lot of people just give in to impulse no matter how silly it is lol.

 

[a.baker]

Sorry for the wall of text; my silly ol' enter bar is not working. Where's my computer brain husband? Now for atheists I don't understand why they pick Christianity to prove wrong. Why not pick all religion with gods wrong and try to prove them all wrong. Now an agnostic I can understand because they know there is a god but they are trying to find out who the real god is. So they question and test to try to better sort things for themselves. I see agnostics as wise in there search. But who am I to judge. But hey if your an Atheist than why even bother or waste your time? Or do you bother because God has put it in every person a space that cannot be filled without Him. Even though people try to fill it with something Hes always calling you. You may reject Him but hes still calling you. If He wasn't calling you than why would you waste your time even thinking about Him or talking about Him. Thats something I don't understand about Atheists. If they are so very certain there is no god than why do they not find peace. What are they debating for? You will always be running in circles to find peace and you will never be settled until you find Him and He fulfills you. Thats the way He made people and how it works. You know there is all sorts of proof of things that were discovered to prove writings or things that happened in the bible. I am not well studied on this stuff but I know someone who is and can direct you to their reliable resources. So if you do want at least some proof than I can give you the forums website. You know it is wise to make sure before you decide something. Yes it does boil down to faith but I am not sold you have researched all proof we do have on earth. I know many who were once dead stuck on being an Atheist and are now devote Christians. Many scientific things that are taught you know are some peoples opinions because they don't really have the proof either. I am sure you recently heard about for example that one dinosaur. Exactly we humans are just discovering so what does that make proof of ; that one still needs faith. Thats all; you have a choice.

 

[GlassOnion]

No one just comes to a church or what have you and says "Ok I choose you"... well actually I'm sure SOME people do that just as I'm sure some people say "let's go to vegas and get married" after knowing the person a week lol. But people of real faith in God don't just say OK I'm going to believe in God now. they do A LOT of soul searching and what not... sort of like MOST responsible people do before they choose to marry someone.

I'd agree with that other than most people are introduced to religion the day they're born. They're inundated with it. I know some people aren't but the majority were born that way and that's the way it's been. If they came to religion of their own volition then that'd count for something.

I am a hypocrite in that regard, though, because I would raise my children as being religious most like and have them decide later on. It's not because I believe that you can't teach moral guide lines without religion or that it's necessary to instill good behavior or anything like that. It's the social factor really.

Kids are cruel. They find out one doesn't believe in god and that kid is laughed at. In third grade I was told that Santa wasn't real and later we had a gift giving in the class room (back when that was still PC). Something brought up the topic of santa and I had to share the big news, that he wasn't real. Of course everyone laughed at me. Even the teacher got mad at me.

Just think of that, but on the scale of God, whom even the adults believe in. It would be the same concept. Kids would be too young to understand the difference.

Anyhow that's straying a bit off topic. But yes, a lot of people are religious just because that's how they've been raised, what they've been taught their whole life. And sure they don't HAVE to stay with religion, but eh, it's ingrained from day one. It's a fact to them. Kind of like brainwashing, really. I wish there was a less negative term for it but that's essentially what it is.

Now for atheists I don't understand why they pick Christianity to prove wrong. Why not pick all religion with gods wrong and try to prove them all wrong.

We don't. Or I don't. I distrust all religions equally, it's just that Christianity is the largest so it's the one most people want to talk about and reference.

If He wasn't calling you than why would you waste your time even thinking about Him or talking about Him.

Because it's an interesting subject?

If they are so very certain there is no god than why do they not find peace.

I'm actually very peaceful and content with my scientific view. It's a lot more interesting, too. So much to learn.

You know there is all sorts of proof of things that were discovered to prove writings or things that happened in the bible

Such as? I welcome any proof, as long as it's actually proof. Something that can be seen, tested, confirmed.

You know it is wise to make sure before you decide something.

Well the only way to be sure, is to die. And since I have to do that anyways some day, I don't really feel the need to expedite the process. There's other things to content myself with in the mean time.

Yes it does boil down to faith but I am not sold you have researched all proof we do have on earth.

No, of course not. No one has. Probably no one will.

I know many who were once dead stuck on being an Atheist and are now devote Christians.

Cool, but there's a lot of people who were stuck on being religious that are now Atheist. Yo.

Many scientific things that are taught you know are some peoples opinions because they don't really have the proof either.

Such as?

I am sure you recently heard about for example that one dinosaur.

Nope. What dinosaur? What about it?

 

[sparks19]

I'd agree with that other than most people are introduced to religion the day they're born. They're inundated with it. I know some people aren't but the majority were born that way and that's the way it's been. If they came to religion of their own volition then that'd count for something.

I am a hypocrite in that regard, though, because I would raise my children as being religious most like and have them decide later on. It's not because I believe that you can't teach moral guide lines without religion or that it's necessary to instill good behavior or anything like that. It's the social factor really.

Kids are cruel. They find out one doesn't believe in god and that kid is laughed at. In third grade I was told that Santa wasn't real and later we had a gift giving in the class room (back when that was still PC). Something brought up the topic of santa and I had to share the big news, that he wasn't real. Of course everyone laughed at me. Even the teacher got mad at me.

Just think of that, but on the scale of God, whom even the adults believe in. It would be the same concept. Kids would be too young to understand the difference.

Anyhow that's straying a bit off topic. But yes, a lot of people are religious just because that's how they've been raised, what they've been taught their whole life. And sure they don't HAVE to stay with religion, but eh, it's ingrained from day one. It's a fact to them. Kind of like brainwashing, really. I wish there was a less negative term for it but that's essentially what it is.

Well... I didn't come to faith until well after I was out of school. My highschool was predominantly muslims... Yes believe it or not my school in Canada had a higher population of muslims than... heck... even more than any RACE. But maybe I was one of the lu cky ones. My faith... or lack of at the time was never ever EVER ONCE an issue... not once. I don't even know if people KNEW what most people believed or didn't believe. some of the Muslims were very vocal about their belief but never once was my lack of faith brought into it. I think everyone was too busy with the "racism" issue... even when there wasn't racism in the particular event being questioned to worry about anyones faith lol.

My best friend was catholic and even she never questioned my lack of belief... again I can't even recall it ever being brought up.. .not even by her parents

So I am biased because I never saw such a thing occur... I have NEVER seen a kid picked on in school because of their faith.

But perhaps the difference here is religion vs faith. I classify myself as Christian but I wouldn't say that I am part of an organized religion persay.

 

[eddieq]

I'd agree with that other than most people are introduced to religion the day they're born. They're inundated with it. I know some people aren't but the majority were born that way and that's the way it's been. If they came to religion of their own volition then that'd count for something.

Anyhow that's straying a bit off topic. But yes, a lot of people are religious just because that's how they've been raised, what they've been taught their whole life. And sure they don't HAVE to stay with religion, but eh, it's ingrained from day one. It's a fact to them. Kind of like brainwashing, really. I wish there was a less negative term for it but that's essentially what it is.

I'm probably reading too much in to it, but GO's choice of words above bothers me a little. I was raised in a Christian home. I was brought to Sunday School and church from an early age. It sounds like you're saying that because of this, I'm brainwashed and my faith "doesn't count". Perhaps I'm just tired, but I did find it insulting, and I'm not easily offended.

Just because someone is raised in a Christian home and chooses to continue to believe as an adult, doesn't make their faith any less valid than a person who was not raised in a religious home and came to the faith later in life.

 

[sparks19]

I'm probably reading too much in to it, but GO's choice of words above bothers me a little. I was raised in a Christian home. I was brought to Sunday School and church from an early age. It sounds like you're saying that because of this, I'm brainwashed and my faith "doesn't count". Perhaps I'm just tired, but I did find it insulting, and I'm not easily offended.

Just because someone is raised in a Christian home and chooses to continue to believe as an adult, doesn't make their faith any less valid than a person who was not raised in a religious home and came to the faith later in life.

I have to agree with this.

I didn't think of it from that point of view.. i think I was focusing more on the actual "brainwashing" part of it rather than the just being raised with God in your life.

We are going to raise Hannah with God... go to Sunday school etc etc. But it's not going to be a "YOu have to believe in god or you will go to hell" sort of thing. she will still be free to choose but she will NEVER EVER be bullied (by us or anyone we know) into believing. I believe that is when it is brainwashing. not just the simple act of going to church and reading bible stories. There is a huge difference.

people can go to church all their lives and still find their own path with God.

 

[mrose_s]

I was raied kind of odd when it came to religion. My mum wasn't religious so we wern't baptised/christined.
My father was raised very religious and so I attended Religious Education at school for the first few years, i wasn't interested in it at all.
Then I started going to church with my dad, i just remember it being a terribly confusing place to be.
I decided to be baptised. We had it all planned out, the day before it I was shopping for clothes with my mum. All I wanted was black clothes, eventually I ended up crying int he change room telling her I didn't understand what was going on and what it was about. SHe called straight away and got it cancelled. I'm so so glad.

Then I remember in year 5, I had the choice to do an assignment on either a political leader or a religion. I picked Buddhism because it interested me and went home and told my muma nd stepdad. First thing he said was something about me not being allowed to do an assignment on that because it was religion. My mum told him to bugger off and I loved the assignment, some of the stuff amazed me.

I have one side of the family that would love me to accept God, but thankfully they don't push it on me. Another side of the family that would just love it if I started eating meat again.

The other thingthat I always think of when I think of religion is a group of boys at school we called the "Christian Boys" (not in a teasing way, they were just all close friends) and omg they always amazed me. They were so stable and balanced, they were so so nice, you could tell how important their faith was to them but not once ever did they say anything about us not having the same faith like they though we should share they're beliefs. They are just such a good group of boys.


Sorry this post didn't have a lot of reference to anythign here maybe, just kinda popped into my head so there you go.

 

[AndrewF]

Now for atheists I don't understand why they pick Christianity to prove wrong. Why not pick all religion with gods wrong and try to prove them all wrong.

There's a couple of reasons:
1) There are a number of Christians who feel the need to convert the non-believers to their way of belief, including those who really aren't interested.

2) How may Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Bhuddists, etc... get wrapped up in theological debates? (To my experience, the vast majority of debates involve Christians)

....But hey if your an Atheist than why even bother or waste your time? Or do you bother because God has put it in every person a space that cannot be filled without Him. Even though people try to fill it with something Hes always calling you. You may reject Him but hes still calling you. If He wasn't calling you than why would you waste your time even thinking about Him or talking about Him. Thats something I don't understand about Atheists. If they are so very certain there is no god than why do they not find peace. What are they debating for?....

I didn't bother until now and it's only to answer your specific questions as opposed to attempting to un-convert people (keep in mind I'm far too lazy to go through the 38 previous pages to find someone else to "pick on").

That said, I've been in these 'debates' before speaking from an athiests standpoint. I've also made reference to the bible/christian material in a few other posts. I'm sure if I bothered to read other religious texts I could toss in little gems of wisdom from them as well.

I think what I find most troubling about a vast minority of christians is the door-to-door sales-person crap I see....it gets tiring and down right offensive. The majority of christians I speak with on a daily basis don't preach and generally show nothing but respect for the beliefs of others.

....You will always be running in circles to find peace and you will never be settled until you find Him and He fulfills you. Thats the way He made people and how it works.....

On the contrary, I've found that you won't find peace in the world around you until you find it in yourself. Mind you, this is my experience. YMMV.

....You know there is all sorts of proof of things that were discovered to prove writings or things that happened in the bible. I am not well studied on this stuff but I know someone who is and can direct you to their reliable resources. So if you do want at least some proof than I can give you the forums website.....

Proof is always welcome. However I'm curious if the 'proof' is of an historical nature (the bible's a book, afterall and contains relevant history) or if it's of the devine type.

....You know it is wise to make sure before you decide something. Yes it does boil down to faith but I am not sold you have researched all proof we do have on earth. I know many who were once dead stuck on being an Atheist and are now devote Christians.....

As GO mentioned, the opposite is also true. At the end of the day, it's whether we're at peace with ourselves, our family and our faith/lack of it that matters.....not whether someone else is at peace with yours/our faith.

....Many scientific things that are taught you know are some peoples opinions because they don't really have the proof either. I am sure you recently heard about for example that one dinosaur. Exactly we humans are just discovering so what does that make proof of ; that one still needs faith. Thats all; you have a choice.

Haven't heard about the 'dinosaur'. I'm also perfectly fine not having absolute proof where none can exist. I'm not in this life to prove whether I'm right or wrong to someone else....it's a sad sort of pi$$ing contest when you look at it objectively. You have your faith and I'm honestly happy for you. I have mine and it works better for me than anything thing else out there.

 

[ihartgonzo]

There's a couple of reasons:
1) There are a number of Christians who feel the need to convert the non-believers to their way of belief, including those who really aren't interested.

2) How may Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Bhuddists, etc... get wrapped up in theological debates? (To my experience, the vast majority of debates involve Christians)

1) That is called spreading the word of God. Of course, I'm sure some people are annoyed by it. And I'm sure some Christians are pushy, or condescending, in the way that they go about spreading the word. I'm visited by Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses at least a few times a year... and it isn't that hard to say, "Thank you, I'm not interested."

Unless the "converters" are harassing or threatening, what is the harm? Honestly. I can agree that it can be a slight annoyance... but if you really think about it... these people (for the most part) want to talk to you because they TRULY want to help people, and inspire people, and they TRULY want to save people, based on the beliefs that they live by. Even if it's annoying, you have to respect that, at least a little bit.

I don't preach to anyone... I do let them know that I'm there for them, if they're ever interested. A lot of Christians do go about spreading the word in a pushy way, but, that's just human flaws. The religion itself shouldn't be blamed for that, IMHO.

2) The vast majority of religious people, particularly in the US, are of a Christian denomination. So that makes sense.

 

[Nechochwen]

I'm always confused when people try to convert others in the states, as if they had never heard of Christianity or the bible before and needed someone asking them "Have you found Jesus?" in a southern drawl to make them want to convert.

 

[puppydog]

I'm always confused when people try to convert others in the states, as if they had never heard of Christianity or the bible before and needed someone asking them "Have you found Jesus?" in a southern drawl to make them want to convert.

My all time favorite answer to that question was Forrest Gumps, "I didn't know he was lost sir". :rofl1:

 

[Lilavati]

My all time favorite answer to that question was Forrest Gumps, "I didn't know he was lost sir". :rofl1:

That tends to be my response . . .

 

[ACooper]

That tends to be my response . . .

Mine too

And there are only 2 groups that have ever come to me door to door, or tried to be pushy in general. WE ALL KNOW ONE OF THEM

I don't agree with trying to force my beliefs on anyone, no matter what subject it is. If someone has a question and/or wants to know, learn, compare notes then I am happy to oblige.

EVEN when it comes to dogs/pets. There are people at work that drive me up the wall about animals. The things they say, their total disregard, how they are treated...........but I don't butt in unless I am asked because it would just go in one ear and right out the other anyway.

 

[Laurelin]

There's a couple of reasons:
1) There are a number of Christians who feel the need to convert the non-believers to their way of belief, including those who really aren't interested.

2) How may Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Bhuddists, etc... get wrapped up in theological debates? (To my experience, the vast majority of debates involve Christians)

Actually the most disrespectful person I have met in regards to others' faith has been Hindu... Long story that really pissed me off, but that's the truth.

I also know many many hard core atheists that will preach at you if they find out you're Christian especially.

The people that really get me are the fundamentalists that come to our school and start railing against us.

 

[puppydog]

Actually the most disrespectful person I have met in regards to others' faith has been Hindu... Long story that really pissed me off, but that's the truth.

I also know many many hard core atheists that will preach at you if they find out you're Christian especially.

The people that really get me are the fundamentalists that come to our school and start railing against us.

It is rather sad. I have come to the point in my life where I truly believe in leaving people alone about thier beliefs. I mean, what does it hurt you to just smile and privately disagree?

 

[a.baker]

I also agree to not push. Pushing just does the opposite and pushes more away. Thats why my husband is an Agnostic but his ever so pushy controlling mother is a Christian youth group leader; different subject.

And I think that God speaks loudly enough that He doesn't need anyone to defend Him. And I agree that ALL humans have flaws.

LOL this isn't a debate game or contest.

But I love my Lord so much and I know that He loves all of us and so out of love I want everyone to at least consider before they just throw Him out the door. I know what He has to offer beyond words; no words for it. This is how I see people that don't know Him yet; now tell me whats so bad about the way I see this? Please don't get offended either thats just silly. Don't read too much into it, its just a made up metaphor.

You have people every where around you starving and hungry. There is nothing but leaves and bugs around. You have found this restaurant that has free steak, fruit, milk, potatoes, you name it its there! You run back to tell everyone what you have found shouting with joy. But they scoff and grumble and go on to eating their bugs and leaves. You look around and you see many suffering. A couple may listen but they still don't believe its true because they don't see the restaurant. You know its right around the corner. So you say "please get up and follow me and you will see". But they all just sit there.

So you think o.k. maybe if I can go back and bring something to show them. So you go and pick a food choice and bring it back. "See look its real. Here it is in my hand". But many don't even look your way and some that do might decide to try it and after trying it might decide to go to the restaurant with you. But most won't consider what you have found, most won't look up from their own meals they have found that think is getting them by, most just mock you.

So you go back to the restaurant to sit and be with your family there and eat. But you can't get those others out of your mind. The ones you see needing and pushing what you have found away. Its hard to relax because many are missing. The cook seems saddened his restaurant isn't as full as can be. He turns to you after you have eaten and says "Please will you go out again and try to see if anyone will listen. Please don't sit there and say nothing. "

 

[Nechochwen]

baker, the person in the story sounds awful pushy.

It also sounds like you're trying to say that everyone who doesn't believe has never believed or refuses to try.

 

[a.baker]

Hey I don't know if I am allowed to put a website up of people I know that are very well studied and can tell you of proof that they know of concerning books of the bible and such. But if I can; if someone could let me know I will put it up in a heart beat. Or I can PM anyone with the website address thats interested. Just ask me and I will. Sorry but I am new to Christianity so I am not super well studied. I am not going to teach algebra if I am still learning how to add and subtract; you know what I mean? But the invite is there.

 

[a.baker]

I am sorry and apologize but if we keep quiet and everyone is super sensitive than how does the word get out; how does the joy get shared?

 

[Nechochwen]

What sort of proof? Proof of the historical things mentioned, or 'proof' of the religious things mentioned?