i dont get some of you ...

[yuckaduck]

You have laws about crating , do the animal control officers have warrents to check every ones homes while they are at work! . They also must sit with a stop watch and observe every ones dogs in the yard. That is outlandish and ridiculous to even think that animal control would ever have this much time to oversee any laws like this.
I have a friend in Holland who can tell me what the animal control laws are. I am definately going to forward this post on to him and inquire if this is true. It's a little outlandish.

I do not know if it is true or not but I have heard it before on another forum. Not by the OP here either so I suspect it is a law but how it is enforced I have no earthly clue!

I just found a Swedish forum for dogs.. and I could not help asking them about crates as I have never had it or seen it in Sweden.
They do Agree (most) that it is handy if the dog is "naughty" alone, And in shows and maybe in the cat, BUT the Swedish dog law says they are only aloud to be in the crate MAX 1 hour or less, not aloud to be left alone in the crate at home at any time.

That is Swedish Animal/dog protection law..
I did not even know that lol...

Here is the link to where that quote came from:

http://lovinggsd.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2040&highlight=crate+training#2040

 

[Angelique]

Over the years I have seen changes in people's attitudes from "I am right, and you are wrong!" to "What can I do to help?" and "Here are some other options...". Yet, I doubt anyone here would hesitate to get tougher on someone, if a dog was being abused or someone's child was being put in danger.

Unfortunately, working is a fact of life, and I would rather see a dog owner looking for advice and better options here, than just "settling" for their current situation.

I am glad to see more and more dog owners, trainers, and behaviorists getting together on the dog boards, and discussing all of these issues. There is so much good information, it's FREE, and people can make up their own minds as to what works best for them and their dog.

Those who just come to argue, twist other people's words, or insist that "their way" is the only way...don't usually stick around long.

I sincerely hope you stick around!

 

[kitcatak]

My puppy is currently 13 weeks old and I have had him since he was 8 weeks old. I am away from the house from 7:30 every morning until 5 every evening. Leo is in his kennel the whole time. He is always dry when we let him out. I know I am a good pet owner, and I know that Leo is a happy dog. He wants for nothing and is truely loved. He is out of his kennel, with the family and outside most of the evening until 10 when he goes back into his kennel for the night. Yes, he is in there for a long time. No, he doesn't hate his kennel and he hasn't ever had an accident. I would love nothing better then to be home with him all day (and with my 2 yr old daughter), but financially, that is never going to happen. (Darn it all!) People have to do the best that they can. I don't believe the man in the post you are refering to was being inhumane or cruel. They wanted a puppy to love and didn't realize how much work it would be. Instead of bringing the pup to the pound, like so many others would do, he is looking for help and came here for it. I have to commend him for that! As he found out, this isn't always the most "welcoming" forum.

 

[Payge]

Yesterday I saw a homeless man with a german shepherd as a pet. The dog looked very well taken care of, and as I sat in traffic it brought a smile to my face to see the GSD holding his leash in his mouth and following this man with adoration in his eyes. The man would lean down and pet the dog and the dog would get this look like "You are my world". Good pet ownership knows no hard and straight rules, there are guidelines yes, and obviously wrong ways, but no one rule will fit for everyone or every dog.

 

[Mordy]

kitcatak, so you are saying your puppy is barely 3 1/2 months old and crated for about 17 hours out of 24 every day? (5 pm to 10 pm is 5 hours and i assumed you'd get up about 2 hours before leaving home in the morning...)

that's very sad. i hope he won't have any developmental issue in the long run.

 

[kitcatak]

Well, I guess if you do the math it does come out that way. I don't find it sad. He won't be crated when he gets older, just as a puppy. I would think that a lot of people on here do the same with their puppies. Winter is coming so my husband will be home more and he won't be in his kennel as much, but for now that is my only option. I thought about this a great deal before I got him and researched it. He is well loved, we socialize him a great deal and he gets to romp & play with my children and the neighbor kids as well as their puppies (they are all about the same age). He will start puppy class in 2 weeks and I will continue with that as long as I can (or he advances to a point where I don't feel we need to go further). I think a lot of dogs could do a lot worse then Leo.

 

[Mordy]

the puppy stage is the most important time in a dog's life, not only is it the time where they go through critical mental development, but also the most important physical changes are taking place.

your puppy is spending over 70% of it's life in a crate right now and if that isn't sad, i don't know what is.

if you search through my previous posts, you will find that i am a strong advocate for crate training, but what you are doing is definitely not healthy for that poor puppy.

to begin with, during the day a puppy should not be crated consecutively for more hours than its age in months plus one without a chance to relieve itself. in your case that would be 4 to 4 1/2 hours. you are already expecting the behavior and capabilities of an adult dog.

you don't expect that your 2 year old daughter behaves like a 12-year old, but you make the same kind of demand on your puppy. have you ever thought about that?

 

[kitcatak]

No, I don't expect it. He DOES it. I put him in their the first day to see what he would do. He was dry all day. If he hadn't been, I would have tried to think of something else to do. His crate is very large and he has a lot of room. It is way bigger then you should have for a dog his size, so I expected accidents. He doesn't. I understand that socialization is important, but puppies also sleep a lot when they are little. We bring him out when we go shopping, run errands etc. Thanks for your concern, but Leo's situation is neither sad nor hindering him. He is a well adjusted puppy and well loved as well.

 

[Irish]

Yesterday I saw a homeless man with a german shepherd as a pet. The dog looked very well taken care of, and as I sat in traffic it brought a smile to my face to see the GSD holding his leash in his mouth and following this man with adoration in his eyes. The man would lean down and pet the dog and the dog would get this look like "You are my world". Good pet ownership knows no hard and straight rules, there are guidelines yes, and obviously wrong ways, but no one rule will fit for everyone or every dog.

I agree totally. It so easy for everyone to sit in judgement of others, if what they do is different from what we do. "hmmm, my dogs are never left alone for more than 4 hours at a time, therefore, anyone who leaves their dogs for longer than 4 hours is abusing their dog" or "I have a large fenced in yard for my dogs to play in, therefore, anyone who doesn't is cruel". There are thousands of dogs in shelters right now, dreaming of a home, not a utopia, just a home with someone who cares about them and treats them well.

 

[Gallien Jacks]

I think that it all starts with the breeder, personally i wont sell a pup to someone that works long hours but that is just me

 

[poeluvr]

some guy leaves his 9 w old puppy alone for upto 9 hours a day ( mostly "just" 3-4, I question this and ppl get upset with me..???

call me crazy but to me that is messed up.
when you buy a dog your bying the responsibility for a life !
some one even suggested getting a litterbox for the dog cuz " it´s such a small dog !!
the only right thing in that statement is that it´s a DOG..
just because it´s a small one it doesnt mean it wont need fresh air and to run around OUTSIDE !
getting some exercice......

ppl who get dogs just to " have em " must not care to much about them..
so instead of getting defensive.. take a min to think about it, and hopefully you´ll have a lightbolb moment and see the freakin light !

i´m not saying that you should never leave your dog home alone, but hope fully that dog is much older then 9 w. and properly trained to be left.

maria

sorry ´bout the spelling errors.

i beleive if you do work, but get summer off the best time to get a pup is summer, so he'll be about 4 months when summer is over. Thats what we did with my dog, he only gets left home the most 3 hours a day though, , cuz we have so many people in my house!

 

[devinecanine]

To say that someone who has to work long hours should be deprived of having, loving and being loved by a dog is just wrong. Obviously Tracy makes time for her dog, it isn't peeing on itself and she isn't having any problems. So why the need to pass judgement?

Jessie

 

[poeluvr]

To say that someone who has to work long hours should be deprived of having, loving and being loved by a dog is just wrong. Obviously Tracy makes time for her dog, it isn't peeing on itself and she isn't having any problems. So why the need to pass judgement?

Jessie

i didnt say it was wrong i said summer would be the best time. Though i do object to people leaving a puppy home alone for 9 hours (which is what some people work), gotta think about the dog too

 

[rocco&quiras mama]

i agree that the summer is the best time to get a puppy if you use that time well meaning you train your dog to be alone taking it slow..

i personally dont know anyone who crates their dog.. and none of ´em have a problem being left alone for a few hours ( i belive a dog shouldt be left alone for more then 4 hours tops )
is it a culturall thing or are you just not willing to take the time to do it the " hard way"
cuz really.. what is easier than putting the dog in a cage , giving it no chance to mess up ?

As LEA said.. you gotta think about the dog.

i understand how it can feel unfair that ppl who work long hours or cant afford a dog sitter shoulndt have dogs, but really... Life aint fair.

 

[devinecanine]

Hey Lea...I don't think it was you that I was directing my comment towards.
I don't agree with keeping dogs crated for 8-9 hours either and esp. not a puppy but some people do have dogs that get into things and are destructive when left alone so a crate is the safest place for them.
No matter what anyones opinion is on having a dog and working long hours, people DO it all the time and there is nothing wrong with it at all. Anyone who is arguing about this must not be an adult that works 40 hrs or more a week. And let me stress that I am not nec. talking about crating dogs that long but having one at all and being gone for 8-10 hrs a day. If it was so horrible, nobody would have a dog because working 40 or more hours a week is how most of us manage to eat and keep a roof over our heads!

Jessie

 

[rocco&quiras mama]

as i have said, i dont care if ppl work 100 hours / w
but get a freakin sitter for the dog.
and no i dont work, but when i do start working again i wont even think of leaving them alone all day..
and my dogs can if they must, hold it.
and they dont tear the house apart , aint that strange ?? never been crated and still dont destroy or crap all over the house.
bored dogs suck to be around and i dont think they like it much either.

on crating; the fact that a dog accepts or has gotten used to somthing doesnt automaticlly make it a good idea.. sure you can say your dog is happy to be in the crate 17 hours a day but really .. say that out loud and listen to how ... crazy it sounds. ( this is not directed to devinecanine )

 

[devinecanine]

Roccos....funny you should say that about getting a dog sitter. My mom IS a pet sitter and you would be surprised how cheap some people can be...OR, they just plain can't afford it. MY dog and many dogs we had when I was growing up were alone all day (not crated) and didn't destroy things or have accidents in the house. They just tended to adjust to our schedule and slept most of the day and were active when we got home.

Jessie

 

[Mordy]

i don't think there's anything wrong with people working a full time job and having a dog, i've been in that situation too. of all my life, only the past 5 years i've been fortunate enough to work from home, before that i worked 4 different shifts, weekends and holidays on an ever-changing schedule and managed to have my pets well taken care of.

no matter which way you look at it, it's not humane to confine a dog in a crate for 17 hours a day, especially not a puppy of barely 3 1/2 months.

if you (generic "you" here, i'm not addressing anyone in particular) work and you have to leave your dog alone for 8+ hours on a daily basis, it should still have enough space to move around, play and get mental stimulation. this can be an exercise pen or a puppy proofed bathroom, a bay-gated kitchen, laundry/utility room or a securely fenced outdoor run. there are many possibilities that are much better, healthier solutions than crating a dog for excessive amounts of time.

 

[rocco&quiras mama]

I bet alot of ppl whould even be happy to sit with dogs for free..
ppl who are athome with kids ( if they love dogs but dont have one ) or older ppl who are sick of going to bingo.
there are better selutions(?) than just leaving them all day .. not to mention the fact that the risc of the dog getting bladder infections are much higher if they have to hold it all day .. or was it somn else ?? well somn bout the bladder. it´s recomended that a dog gets to pee atleast every 4 hours.. if they first have to hold it all day while your at work and then all night ... hey.. glad it aint me is all i can say.

 

[kitcatak]

So, I should bring Leo to the pound because I can't be with him the amount of time YOU people feel I should? I would love to be home all day, but I can't afford to. I am not going to hire someone to come into my home because I don't KNOW anyone that can do that and I don't trust a total stranger to be with my dog unattended. I don't even leave my KIDS with people I don't know. I guess I should tell Leo that he is abused and in the same category as the dog I hear whining all day long that obviously IS abused. (No, I haven't turned them in, because I can't figure out WHICH house it is coming from, but I will when I figure it out). Leo is happy, in good health and well loved. What more do you people want for a dog? You are right, life is NOT fair and never will be, otherwise I would be a millionaire with a huge estate and 6 Chow's and be home with them all day everyday and a tutor would come to my home so the kids could be home with me and get a GOOD education. BUT, like you said, life is not fair.