De-Barking your dog..

[SummerRiot]

I USED to think it was cruel.. as Manchester says you will never understand until you are put in someone elses position, read the facts and KNOW everything about it BEFORE anything happens.

Of course de-barking wouldn't be the first option, but when you have exercised others it does look rather nice. Its not only for our hearings sake, it is for Jadas sake.. we wouldn't want her empounded by the police because we couldn't shut her up..

Manchester makes a very good point, and from what I have heard as well it is painless for the dog minus the mild sore throat for maybe a day afterwards.

and out of ALL of the de-barked dogs I've seen..none have grown back, and none have died from the simple procedure lol

If anyone has see my "Sheltie visit" picture thread.. all of those Shelties except for our two in there and Riot have been de-barked.. do they seriously look like they have been lacking something in life? They carry on like nothing had ever happened to them.
Also, coudl you imagine the amount of noise ALL of them barking would make?! lol they'd never be allowed outside in the backyard if they weren't de-barked! lol

 

[sharpeilover]

no still would never, i would never ever use a shock collar how cruel can people go and i am sorry if i affend anyone, but these dogs have a life to, would u want to be de-talked NO would u like to be shocked -NO so y should dogs

 

[sharpeilover]

Also, coudl you imagine the amount of noise ALL of them barking would make?! lol they'd never be allowed outside in the backyard if they weren't de-barked! lol[/QUOTE]

sorry, but if u want to complain about the noise u dont get that many dogs do u

 

[Twilight]

Go check in your dog pounds, and see how many dogs are there for barking problems. And I hope to heaven none of you ever have kids that need their tonsils out.

If people would just spend time actually training there dogs with a decent behaviourist then there wouldnt be dogs in the pound for barking problems

Absolutely disgusting

i am so glad i dont live in the USA

 

[RD]

If people would just spend time actually training there dogs with a decent behaviourist then there wouldnt be dogs in the pound for barking problems

Absolutely disgusting

i am so glad i dont live in the USA

.. Because the U.S. government isn't so heavily involved with what we can and cannot do with our dogs?? Sheesh, and I thought breed bans were oppressive. I don't want the government, which knows close to NOTHING about dogs, telling me what I have to do with mine. JMO, of course.

You do realize that there are not great trainers everywhere, who can properly educate dog owners. I personally would rather a fairly inexperienced owner humanely debark their dog than take it to a "trainer" who said the best way to cure the barking was to shock the dog every time it made a sound. I can guarantee you that the debarked dog would be much happier than the "trained" dog. Not being able to bark loudly is not cruelty - hurting a dog for barking IS.

I find it ridiculous that so much attention is given to things like docking, cropping, and debarking.. Especially when there are people who terribly abuse their dogs. At the shelter I volunteer at, the manager has a Yorkie that she rescued years ago from a puppymill that had been shut down. She was debarked by having a metal rod rammed into her throat, it broke her jaw in the process and she wound up having to have the entire lower jaw removed and reconstructed.
Now.. I find it DISGUSTING that people have the nerve to say how cruel RESPONSIBLE dog owners are, and how the humane surgeries done in vet clinics should be outlawed, when there are things like that happening to poor dogs all over the place and hardly ANY attention is being given to that by the government.

</rant>

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

.. Because the U.S. government isn't so heavily involved with what we can and cannot do with our dogs?? Sheesh, and I thought breed bans were oppressive. I don't want the government, which knows close to NOTHING about dogs, telling me what I have to do with mine. JMO, of course.

You do realize that there are not great trainers everywhere, who can properly educate dog owners. I personally would rather a fairly inexperienced owner humanely debark their dog than take it to a "trainer" who said the best way to cure the barking was to shock the dog every time it made a sound. I can guarantee you that the debarked dog would be much happier than the "trained" dog. Not being able to bark loudly is not cruelty - hurting a dog for barking IS.

I find it ridiculous that so much attention is given to things like docking, cropping, and debarking.. Especially when there are people who terribly abuse their dogs. At the shelter I volunteer at, the manager has a Yorkie that she rescued years ago from a puppymill that had been shut down. She was debarked by having a metal rod rammed into her throat, it broke her jaw in the process and she wound up having to have the entire lower jaw removed and reconstructed.
Now.. I find it DISGUSTING that people have the nerve to say how cruel RESPONSIBLE dog owners are, and how the humane surgeries done in vet clinics should be outlawed, when there are things like that happening to poor dogs all over the place and hardly ANY attention is being given to that by the government.

</rant>

I agree.

 

[Twilight]

just goes to show how different we are then doesnt it

 

[RD]

It certainly does.

 

[g00ber]

I have owned one dog in the past that was de-barked (who had already had the procedure when I got her). I agree with what a lot of the other have said, I would use debarking if all other avenues had been exhausted and I was left with only the options to either debark or rehome. The one suggestion I do have on the topic (after finding out the hard way from the dog I had who had previously been de barked) is that not all vets have a lot of experience/knowledge when it comes to performing this surgury. The dog I had, had terrible problems beathing when it got even remotely hot and my vet had a lot of problems trying to anethetise (sp?) this dog. All this was due to the fact that the vet (not sure of whom it was) that performed this de-barking had done a terrible job which had left this dog with a huge amount of scar tissue. Cases like this are not that common but they can happen so if you decide to go through with the surgury make sure that you find a vet that has successfully performed this surgury on numerous dogs.

 

[SummerRiot]

Very well said RD and Goober a very good thought on this as well

 

[jmsamr]

How much is the surgery?

I'm not looking for an ethical debate, just curious

 

[blue]

How much is the surgery?

I'm not looking for an ethical debate, just curious

I hope you arent asking to solve this problem? As it will only solve a symptom not the problem.

We have two Beagles one is pure breed and very easy going, but the other is not AKC purebreed and has some aggression issues. He is four years old and has been neutered for 3 years.

The aggression comes most often when he is in the backyard barking at a squirrel, not wanting to annoy the neighbors we try to remove him from the situation. He does not challenge me but he will challenge anybody else. He has and will bite if not left alone.

He becomes very aggressive anytime somebody tries to put him in a dog crate or shut him in a room.

We have a 16 month old and he has not been aggressive with him but we are afraid he will.

Do bark/training collars work well? Does anybody know of a collar that performs the automatic bark correction of a bark collar and also has a remote for training functions?

Thank You for your help

 

[Zoom]

They CAN be taught not to bark when training. Alot of the breeds proficient in agility seem to do this because of the excitement of getting caught up in the moment. Most trainers discourage it but do not try to break the habit all together.

I'm trying to do that right now because my Aussie just won't shut up when it's not his turn. So far the best results have come from breaking eye contact with a treat and then getting him to do an about-face so his back is to the action and then I tell him "eyes on me" and move the treat back and forth between his nose and mine. Otherwise, it's a losing battle...maybe a squirt bottle? He just won't take to the "No bark!" command.

 

[bogolove]

Give me strength!!!!!! Yep, it sure is cruel to try to change a dog!!!! So let them sh!t all over the house, chew up all the electrical wires (or as many as it takes to electrocute themselves!) eat the sofa, chew thru the door frames, eat the kitchen wooden cabinets, dig holes all over the yard, and for doG sake DON'T PUT UP A FENCE!!!! Dogs are meant to run free, not be confined.

And if it communicates its anger by sh!ting in the middle of your bed, DO NOT reprimand it---you will be stifling its communication skills, roflmfbo.

Now of course, every one is entitled to their opinion/opinions.....but do not try to judge the decisions and actions of others by your BASELESS opinions! Which is sounds like you are doing. You know next to nothing about dogs, breeds, breed characteristics, etc. Wait until you do to be so dogmatic about things!!

And it is hysterically funny to see how many of the nondog people have been conned into the "behaviorist" game, lol. Anyone who raises and trains a puppy IS a behaviorist......because they modify doggy behavior. Of course there are those who believe that unless you have sat in a classroom, and taken WRITTEN tests, you cannot be a behaviorist. Hands on actual experience does not count. Yeah, right! As I have said before, I am a BEHAVIOR CREATOR!! Far beyond what any mere so callled behaviorist could ever accomplish.

I do not appreciate being accused of being cruel to my dogs by someone ignorant of what was done with and to my dogs. It would be nice if there were a few more facts, and a bit less anthromorphosizing (sp?) around here!!!!!! And if you are young (which is an excuse for everything around here) please overlook my attitude, lol.

I am completely not attacking you. I just don't agree with it myself. All you do is accuse people of being young on here when you don't agree with what they say. It sounds like you have a little growing to do yourself. You are older than practically everyone on this forum, we understand that by now. But I am 27, and all I do is read books on dogs and I may not have studied as much as you by now and know every single picky little thing that I should (and that you seem to know), but you have had 50 years on me (I am just guessing here, since you are SO old), but I do know that everyone has a right to an opinion and mine is not in agreement with yours. I do not think you a less person for it, and I don't understand why you would be so sensitive about it even if I did, which I don't. I have no idea what motivates you to attack people constantly and take things SO wrong all of the time, but I personally was not attacking you. I just do not agree with it, and I would not do it to my dog. Then again, I have never had problems with my dog barking, so I guess I can't personally say it from experience. I do know that there was a BYB here in TN that cut all of the vocal cords on her dogs that she was breeding, she had over 100 of them in her garage, and they were all taken away from her for cruelty. So, that is the first time I had even heard of it being done, and I thought it was cruel under all of the circumstances with those dogs, and every time I heard it after that I associated it with BYB. I wasn't aware reputable breeders did it. Honestly, I wasn't. I assume you are reputable? I am just asking, I know nothing of you.

 

[bridey_01]

Oh goodness, here we go again with the attacks on the behavioursits. Manchesters, you are not (and most probably never will be) a behaviourist. Claiming that shaping behaviour makes you a behaviourist is ridiculous. Jumping up, learned aggression, pulling on the lead are all behaviours shaped by people. Are these people behaviourists? No. I would never go to an unaccredited trainer, no matter how many years of "experience" they had. There are trainers I've met who've been in the game for fifty years and upwards and know nothing, all their ideas are baseless and all the dogs they cure eventually end up with a new problem, because the old one was merely stunned with punishment. Anyone can shape canine behaviour, it's no marvel.

 

[bridey_01]

Also, I dont have much against debarking if the barking merits it. I wouldn't condone debarking a dog that just had the singular "woof, here comes someone" bark. But I would definelty promote it over a shock collar.

 

[Manchesters]

The reason for the reference to age difference is strictly because we who are older have had more experiences to draw upon. I am sorry if you are offended by those of us with more years and more experience than yourself, but that is something I can't help.

I have a distinct advantage over you or anyone else 20 or more years younger than I because I have had more TIME to have more encounters and experiences-----get it??????? It is a FACT that there are certain advantages that come along with having been around the block a few times.

And as I said, I hope you never have a child that needs a tonsilectomy. Then you will find out what inhumane REALLY means!!!!! Snipping a dog's vocal cord is actually less invasive than cutting their toenails. Someday if you are every around a dog that has just had the surgery you will have the chance to see just how little a deal it is.

 

[Gallien Jacks]

Training is the key, you need to train your dog not to bark, instead of putting it through a surgery, the quick and easy way isnt always the best

 

[bogolove]

The reason for the reference to age difference is strictly because we who are older have had more experiences to draw upon. I am sorry if you are offended by those of us with more years and more experience than yourself, but that is something I can't help.

I have a distinct advantage over you or anyone else 20 or more years younger than I because I have had more TIME to have more encounters and experiences-----get it??????? It is a FACT that there are certain advantages that come along with having been around the block a few times.

And as I said, I hope you never have a child that needs a tonsilectomy. Then you will find out what inhumane REALLY means!!!!! Snipping a dog's vocal cord is actually less invasive than cutting their toenails. Someday if you are every around a dog that has just had the surgery you will have the chance to see just how little a deal it is.

If you will see I stated myself that you had 50 (I don't know your age, so don't take that negatively) years of experience over me. We all know how much experience you have, and it is truly admirable, but the age card is just played out. There is a way to state things to people, and to the children on here without trying to sound like you are trying to belittle them. People will listen to your opinion, especially since they know how much experience you have, without having to accuse them of being young. Everyone on here knows how old they are, they don't need for someone else to tell them. You can have all the knowledge in the world, but if people won't listen to you because they don't respect you, then what is the use? If you don't attack people, they will completely respect you, it is not that hard to get respect when you know so much. Every bit of this post is not meant to be taken in a menacing way.

Maybe if I was around a dog that had the surgery I could see it wasn't bad, but as I stated, the only time I have ever seen it is from a BYB here, and she did it herself. The state took all her dogs away from her except for her four family pets, and put them in foster care until she went on trial. After her trial, they would not allow her to have her dogs back, and she could never breed dogs again. So, every time I have thought of it since, it has had a negative connotation in my mind. I will do some reading on it.

 

[Manchesters]

Yeah, Right

Training is the key, you need to train your dog not to bark, instead of putting it through a surgery, the quick and easy way isnt always the best

Spoken like a true dog lover who knows nothing about very many different breeds of dogs. Like for instance.....a Samoyed. You can train a Sammy until it dies of old age, and it will bark. It would rather die than stop barking. Now of course, a shock collar MIGHT work. But I have seen dogs freaking out from shock collars, screaming in fear, shocking themselves as they do, trying to eat the collar off. Saw one dog get its jaw under the stap of the collar and get the electrode in its mouth, shocking itself all the while.

You are are training experts, do tell me, how many years will you spend teaching a Manchester not to bark before you decide on the debarking procedure? Oh.....it is NOT surgery by the way.

And once again, for the one who totally fails to see the point of having had a few years on the planet.........HOW MANY HUNDREDS OF DOGS HAVE YOU HAD EXPERIENCE WITH? How many different breeds do you KNOW about? Like none, maybe? Some people are just obtuse, and no explanation will suffice.

Oh yeah, and what do you experts do when the dog is outside barking its head off? Out of hundreds of dogs over the years, I have had 3 debarked. And that was because that was the way it had to be. I could have had them put down, but opted for debarking.

Oh, and for those who know absolutely NOTHING, as far as training, you can ask Yuckaduck if she ever comes around again about my dogs being trained to not bark/stop barking.

As long as "pet experts" are around the shelters will be filled with dogs awaiting death because they barked too much. I would guess that 50% of the dogs in pounds are there because of barking problems. But hey, killing them will for sure shut them up!!!!!

As I said in an above post, some should learn to read the facts, not just spew out lies about others they know nothing about!!!! Having 3 dogs debarked in 30 years is not a bad average, and it was done only because it was the ONLY solution.