Zuchon Atopy

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#1
I have a 7-year-old male Zuchon that suffers from atopy. I currently give him NaturVet Aller 911 Skin & Coat Allergy Aid Dog & Cat Soft Chews every day, bathe him with Vet's Best Allergy Itch Relief Shampoo for Dogs once a week, give him Vet's Best Seasonal Allergy Support Dog Supplement daily, mix NaturVet Aller 911 Skin & Coat Plus Allergy Aid Dog & Cat Powder Supplement in with his food every day, give him NaturVet Aller 911 Allergy Aid Skin & Coat Dog & Cat Tablets daily, bathe him every two weeks with NaturVet Aller 911 Allergy Aid Skin Care Dog & Cat Shampoo and give him all his pills in Greenies Pill Pockets Canine Roasted Duck & Pea Allergy Formula Dog Treats. It hasn't done anything for him. Right now he has about 9 hot spots over his body and I have been washing them with witch hazel, which has helped very little. His ears are also infected and I've been flushing them out daily with deionized water, which has somewhat helped. To keep him from licking at his hot spots I have put Comfrey Glycolic Extract on them, which has helped a good amount. The only time his atopy was completely under control was when I put Adenosinum cyclophosphoricum, which I can no longer find. I can find it mixed with other ingredients, but he must have an allergy to the other ingredients, as it never helps.
 
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#3
Yes, they are all over the counter. I go to a holistic vet and she almost never prescribes medications. She told me to feed my dog a raw diet. So, I've started that. Apollo gets ground goose/bones/organs mixed with Alnutrin + Eggshell Calcium for Cats (holistic vet says it works for dogs, too), Pinkie Rats and boneless rabbit cubes. So, now I've got his very expensive diet and it hasn't helped at all. Just for one month I spend $76 on a 12-pound dog! That's just his food. She said it would help and it hasn't. Before I was feeding him raw, I fed him on ZiwiPeak for 2 years, he was on NRG for 3 years and he ate Royal Canin until he was a year old, as that is what the breeder had him on. The holistic vet said to mix raw cranberries, beleric myrobalan, flaxseed oil and MSM in with his raw food. I'm doing all this and it's not helping. He has been on this diet for about 2 months now and I thought I would notice a change, but I haven't. I did speak to a normal veterinarian about his condition and he recommend starting Atopica for Dogs immediately. He also wasn't too crazy about the raw diet, although neither am I and neither is Apollo. I talked to my regular holistic vet about Atopica for Dogs and she said it was poison and would make him worse. :confused:
 

stardogs

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#4
Has either vet actually done any allergy testing or suggesting an elimination diet?! That seems like the first step to finding the cause!
 
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#5
My normal vet, the holistic vet, that said all dogs are allergic to all grains, but can consume fruits/vegetables/herbs in small, therapeutic amounts and that there is no such thing as dogs being allergic to any type of meat. However, I did have allergy testing done through NutriScan from the Western veterinarian I go to. Apollo came up allergic to beef, whitefish, eggs, oats, rice, lentils, corn, milk, chicken, barley, quinoa, sweet potato, wheat, lamb, turkey, millet, rabbit and peanuts! I feed him raw rabbit, as the holistic vet said it should comprise 1/3 of his diet, which it does. I told her about the results, and she told me that they were just a way to scam money out of people and that doesn't can't be allergic to rabbit. After the test came back (this was a few years ago), the regular vet recommended Hill's Prescription Diet d/d Canine Skin Support Potato & Duck Formula because it didn't contain anything he was allergic to. I really don't like feeding Apollo a raw diet, as I find it really gross and he hardly eats any food. In two months he has gone from 12-pounds down to 7-pounds! I can feel his ribs very easily and I think he is underweight, but the holistic vet says that he is at a normal weight and that you should be able to feel/see a dog's ribs easily if they are at a normal weight. He should be eating 3 ounces of raw per day, but I struggle just to get one in him. I have to use chunks of raw rabbit and can't even give him a biscuit. Would it really be so bad if I went against the holistic vet's advice and fed him a dry dog food? I've looked into a food and found Royal Canin Veterinary Diet Selected Protein Adult PD Dry Dog Food that doesn't contain anything he is allergic to! It's the only food I can find that doesn't contain anything he is allergic to, other than the one the vet suggested, but I can't find anything about that online. Do you know if Starmark Everlasting Treats contain anything that he is allergic to? It says it doesn't contain wheat, soy or corn, but I can't find the ingredients.
 
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#6
My normal vet, the holistic vet, that said all dogs are allergic to all grains, but can consume fruits/vegetables/herbs in small, therapeutic amounts and that there is no such thing as dogs being allergic to any type of meat.
Run. Run far and fast, this is ridiculous.
 

Brattina88

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#7
I agree with Sass! I would drop that vet immediately and switch to the royal canin. I think it's crazy your pup has dropped from 12 to 7lbs and is in such poor condition but he/she hasn't even altered her extremist views. I would go to the western vet and treat immediately - poor dog sounds miserable! I feel sorry for both to you, I feel you're being extremely misled.

I would also look into a dog dermatologist. I went through rounds and rounds of treatments with my regular vet, a second opinion/holistic vet, but at the end of the day they were all treating the symptoms not the actually cause of the skin ailments. A canine dermatologist may be able to point you in the right direction. I'm not sure of your location but I can ask my dog's dermatologist for a recommendation in your area of there is one. I drove almost two hours for her and I was terrified it was going to be out of my price range but it was actually CHRAPER than my regular vet and I wish I had gone sooner! Blood work, skin scrapings and/or biopsies may need to be done for a proper diagnosis. Have things been ruled out like thyroid problems, cushings, immune deficiencies, etc?

I used to feed strictly 100% raw several years ago and I feel like the raw diet your holistic vet has you on isn't "complete" to say the least. I also believe that an elimination diet is the best way to find out true food allergies or sensitivities. Even with people you can get false positives depending on the testing and the persons immune system at the time of testing. That's kinda why they say you can "grow" into and out of allergies. It could even be environmental but at this point I'm sure there's secobdsry infections whether it be yeast or bacteria that need treatment with medicine from the vet. Not OTC treatments. And believe me there is a place for witch hazel and the different powders, Ive used them myself. But from your description you're way beyond that right now
 

k9krazee

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#8
I think the first thing I would do is change his diet. I would not feed a dog with a suspected rabbit allergy a diet mostly consisting of rabbit. Obviously it's not working.
 

stardogs

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#9
I was going to quote your reply Fortal, but in the end, I'm just going to agree with others and say your holistic vet is the one who's full of it. I've used holistic vets in the past and NONE of them would have agreed with the idea of feeding a dog allergic to rabbit a diet high in rabbit. That's just insane.

Add to that your dog being in poor condition in just 2 months and it sounds like you need to switch diets quickly. This one is obviously not working at all.

I think Brattina's suggestion of a canine dermatologist is phenomenal - I bet they can get your pup back to health the most efficiently!
 

Dekka

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#10
I would put him back on a good food he was eating before (maybe not the royal canin as that one isn't great and it was so long ago) and see if that makes a difference.

At this point it can't hurt.

(I say this as a huge fan of raw)
 
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#11
I think I’m going to stop going to the holistic vet. I’m not an expert by any means, but what she says sounds very strange.

I want to do the best for my dogs, of course. I’m going to switch fully over to the regular vet and ask about the Royal Canin. I thought Apollo looked great at 12 pounds, but I honestly think he is underweight at 7 pounds. After all that I’ve done, it hasn’t helped him at all and he is still scratching himself raw. I feel very bad for what I’ve put Apollo through and am very mad at the holistic veterinarian. I honestly did not know they had dermatologists for dogs, but I will look into one. This morning I just said TO HECK WITH IT and I went to Petco and purchased a small bag of Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Lamb Meal & Brown Rice Formula Dry Dog Food and Apollo ate with gusto. I will look for a canine dermatologist. I am in San Antonio, TX. Money isn’t really an issue, so I’m not worried about that. I would like to have another allergy panel run, like I did have two years ago. I have no had Apollo tested for thyroid, Cushing’s or immune problems. I really want to avoid raw at this point, as Apollo absolutely hates raw meat. This morning he ate Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Lamb Meal & Brown Rice Formula Dry Dog Food and loved it. I’d like to have a NutriScan run on Apollo again. The regular Western vet told me that they should be run yearly, as sensitivities can change. At this point Apollo is so miserable; I just want to get him on any medication that is going to help him. I actually didn’t give Apollo any of his OTC treatments today. The witch hazel hasn’t done anything. I didn’t even use it today.

Well, I know he has possible lamb and rice allergies, but I just needed to get some food down him that he would eat, so I purchased the Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Lamb Meal & Brown Rice Formula Dry Dog Food. Ideally, I think I’d like to get him on a food that contains either duck or pork. I wanted to get the Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Potato & Duck Formula Dry Dog Food (even though it contains salmon oil), but Petco was out.

I’ve definitely made the decision to stop going to my holistic vet. I am not 100% sure he has a rabbit allergy, but I’m suspecting he does because his allergy test two years ago came up positive for a rabbit allergy. I’m going to talk to the Western vet, which will become my regular vet now, and vet him allergy tested once again. I’ve also looked into Stella & Chewy's Duck Duck Goose Dinner Patties Freeze-Dried Dog Food, but the second ingredient is turkey and he has a suspected allergy to that. It seems the only diets that would be okay for him, that don’t contain any of his allergens, would be a prescription diet. I will ask my vet for a referral to a dermatologist. I’m thinking of getting a bag of Health Extension Allergix Buffalo, Whitefish & Chickpea Formula Dry Dog Food, which is what he was eating before the holistic vet switched him to raw. He is sensitive to whitefish, but he did better on this diet than he did the raw. At this point, I’m NOT a big fan of raw at all.
 

Brattina88

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#12
I think you're on the right track. :)
If it were me I'd just pick & stick to one food for now, until you rule a few things out like thyroid, cushings, etc and get some advice from your vet on where to start with food and a treatment plan for the current infections. Who knows, just being off of that raw rabbit diet may help a little bit on its own. I've actually heard of the South Texas Veterinary Specialists on another forum. Of course, I'm not sure how far away that is from you, and can not personally attest to it because I'm in Ohio (lol) but I've heard good things about them... They maybe more pricey than what I am used to but you said money's not really an issue so that's good? :p asking your vet for a referral is a good idea as well! Some vets don't like to "give away their business", so just be aware of that just in case. I've heard stories form other people about problems like that. Mine was thrilled with the idea that I was willing to go.

It usually takes a while to get into a specialist as a first time appointment, maybe a month before you can get in. Same with humans :p A follow up appt didn't take as long, IME.
Often times they'll want no allergy meds OR a bath given a week (or 24 or 48 hours) prior to the appointment, depending on the vet and they're requirements/plan of action, just so you know. A week felt like a long time for Maddie but it was neccisary.

So, again, if it were me I'd go to your vet and get the bloodwork and everything done because the specialist can use those results as well, and that may speed up the process for a diagnoses. I know it did for my Maddie! If it's a bit of a drive, having the vets work together is the best thing. I wish you and your dog the best of luck, and I hope he feels better soon! I can definitly relate to the frustration of skin problems and "allergies". It turns out my dogs issues weren't as allergy related as we thought, she has Vitamin A Responsive Dermatosis. And the only food that truly causes her problems is wheat. BIG difference from her diagnosis in her younger years. She's been clear and good for I think almost 5 years now!
 

stardogs

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#13
Do you have a local pet food/supply place? They may have more options for LID type diets. I'd want to steer clear of ANYTHING from his prior panel that turned up positive to see how that affects his skin/ear issues first while looking for a specialist.

Talk to your vet, too, of course, but if you're switching foods, best to switch to one not contraindicated.

Also, your vet may be able to refer you directly to a dermatologist, so ask!
 

crazedACD

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#14
There are some medications too now that can help with this. If you aren't getting results from changing the diet, I would talk to your vet about something like prescription Atopica.. which does have some side effects but I would weight those with quality of life.

And definitely, get him off the stuff he is allergic to! :) Best of luck, let us know how he does.
 
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#15
I would like to tell everybody that I really appreciate the help! Right now Apollo is eating Natural Balance Lamb and Brown Rice and I’ve made an appointment for tomorrow morning for him. I have not yet noticed any changes in his Atopy, but he has only been off the raw diet for one day. I’m going to ask my vet (I will only be seeing the Western vet) for a referral to a dermatologist. I’m not sure I can travel to Ohio to see a canine dermatologist. I really don’t like to talk about money, but when my grandfather died he left me a large fortune and I haven’t had to work since. I’m sure the vet I will be going to now (exclusively) will be able to point me in the right direction. But, if he can help Apollo, that would be great. If not, I will ask for a referral or find a dermatologist on my own. I really like the vet and I think he is a good guy, but I feel I was tricked by the holistic vet into not using any of his treatments that could have helped Apollo in the long run. I don’t like the idea of having to wait a month for an appointment, but I’m sure the vet can give me something for Apollo until I can get in. I remember having to wait 7-weeks to get my grandfather into see a vascular surgeon. But, the follow-up appointments took a week or less! I have stopped giving all the OTC supplements and stuff to Apollo and I will not bathe him next Sunday. I normally give him a bath every week or even twice a week. I’ll do whatever is needed to get Apollo on the right track to being well. Whatever tests are necessary, I’m more than happy to do. I’d really prefer if the specialist was within an hours drive from me, but if not, then it’s really not that big of deal. Thank you so much for all your help. It makes me miserable to see Apollo so miserable. I have read that Atopy can actually be genetic in the Bichon Frise, which is what Apollo’s mother was. I’d like to get another food sensitivity panel run. It takes about a week, but it will at least help me choose a food. I’m so happy to hear that things worked out well for your dog.

I can try going to Petland Vineyard, as they always have a huge selection of food. The only proteins that didn’t show up as an allergen on Apollo’s last profile were duck and pork. He will be seeing the vet tomorrow and I might go with having him on a prescription diet, if the vet feels that is what is best. If we could get into see a dermatologist, which would be wonderful.

I’m definitely going to get Apollo some Dogswell Happy Hips Duck Breast Jerky Dog Treats tomorrow! I’ve also been looking at foods and found that Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Duck & Potato Formula Canned Dog Food is 100% free from anything he is allergic to! I’ve heard good things about Atopica, but I never got Apollo on it because my holistic vet said it was poison. The canned Natural Balance is the only non-prescription food I can find that doesn’t contain anything he is allergic to. Again, I’d like to thank everybody!
 
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#16
I would like to tell everybody that I really appreciate the help! Right now Apollo is eating Natural Balance Lamb and Brown Rice and I’ve made an appointment for tomorrow morning for him. I have not yet noticed any changes in his Atopy, but he has only been off the raw diet for one day. I’m going to ask my vet (I will only be seeing the Western vet) for a referral to a dermatologist. I’m not sure I can travel to Ohio to see a canine dermatologist. I really don’t like to talk about money, but when my grandfather died he left me a large fortune and I haven’t had to work since. I’m sure the vet I will be going to now (exclusively) will be able to point me in the right direction. But, if he can help Apollo, that would be great. If not, I will ask for a referral or find a dermatologist on my own. I really like the vet and I think he is a good guy, but I feel I was tricked by the holistic vet into not using any of his treatments that could have helped Apollo in the long run. I don’t like the idea of having to wait a month for an appointment, but I’m sure the vet can give me something for Apollo until I can get in. I remember having to wait 7-weeks to get my grandfather into see a vascular surgeon. But, the follow-up appointments took a week or less! I have stopped giving all the OTC supplements and stuff to Apollo and I will not bathe him next Sunday. I normally give him a bath every week or even twice a week. I’ll do whatever is needed to get Apollo on the right track to being well. Whatever tests are necessary, I’m more than happy to do. I’d really prefer if the specialist was within an hours drive from me, but if not, then it’s really not that big of deal. Thank you so much for all your help. It makes me miserable to see Apollo so miserable. I have read that Atopy can actually be genetic in the Bichon Frise, which is what Apollo’s mother was. I’d like to get another food sensitivity panel run. It takes about a week, but it will at least help me choose a food. I’m so happy to hear that things worked out well for your dog.

I can try going to Petland Vineyard, as they always have a huge selection of food. The only proteins that didn’t show up as an allergen on Apollo’s last profile were duck and pork. He will be seeing the vet tomorrow and I might go with having him on a prescription diet, if the vet feels that is what is best. If we could get into see a dermatologist, which would be wonderful.

I’m definitely going to get Apollo some Dogswell Happy Hips Duck Breast Jerky Dog Treats tomorrow! I’ve also been looking at foods and found that Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Duck & Potato Formula Canned Dog Food is 100% free from anything he is allergic to! I’ve heard good things about Atopica, but I never got Apollo on it because my holistic vet said it was poison. The canned Natural Balance is the only non-prescription food I can find that doesn’t contain anything he is allergic to. Again, I’d like to thank everybody!
I think you are on the right track and hope Apollo gets well soon! Don't bathe too frequently as that can irritate the skin.

I would also suggest not doing treats right now, just sticking to food (you can use food as a treat) just until you figure out what exactly he is allergic to.

If you have it at a local store, I would personally recommend Acana duck and pear or the pork and squash one. Or, you could order it online and get it delivered for free with chewy. com.

But I would really stick with no treats, just the limited ingredient food until you get the allergies sorted out!

Good luck!
 

Barb04

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#17
There are 2 food that I know have helped dogs with these type of allergies.

Wellness Core grain free

Natural Balance LID (my friend went to sweet potato & venison)
 
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#18
Yesterday morning, Apollo went to see the vet. He told me to bathe him only once a month and get him professionally groomed, if possible. He gave me a prescription for Hypo-Treats that I can give to Apollo. He also gave me a prescription for Hill’s Prescription Diet d/d Canine Skin Support Potato & Duck Formula. I looked at the Acana Duck and Pear, but Apollo is allergic to lentils, and that is the third ingredient. I took a look at the pork formula, but again, it contains lentils. The vet told me the Hypo-Treats are fine to give. It’s been one day of him being on the new food and treats (I only give him one per day) and I haven’t noticed any difference yet.

The vet told me it could take a little while for the new food to start working, so I’m not discouraged, given it’s only been 24 hours. Wellness CORE contains turkey, which Apollo is allergic to.
 

stardogs

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#19
It’s been one day of him being on the new food and treats (I only give him one per day) and I haven’t noticed any difference yet.
I have heard that it can take 4-6 weeks to notice the full changes brought on by switching foods, so take heart!
 
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#20
Yesterday morning, Apollo went to see the vet. He told me to bathe him only once a month and get him professionally groomed, if possible. He gave me a prescription for Hypo-Treats that I can give to Apollo. He also gave me a prescription for Hill’s Prescription Diet d/d Canine Skin Support Potato & Duck Formula. I looked at the Acana Duck and Pear, but Apollo is allergic to lentils, and that is the third ingredient. I took a look at the pork formula, but again, it contains lentils. The vet told me the Hypo-Treats are fine to give. It’s been one day of him being on the new food and treats (I only give him one per day) and I haven’t noticed any difference yet.

The vet told me it could take a little while for the new food to start working, so I’m not discouraged, given it’s only been 24 hours. Wellness CORE contains turkey, which Apollo is allergic to.
Oh I missed the part of the allergy to lentils. Then yeah acana wouldn't work. I just tend to avoid the "prescription" diets if the dog doesn't NEED to be on them as I do not think they are very good! But if it's the only thing that works, then that's what you gotta do!

Good luck, it just takes patience now. I have heard it takes anywhere from 4-8 weeks to really see a difference.
 

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