I have never been able to stand Whoopi Goldberg and this is just one more reason why. She's trying to justify what he did as a cultural issue. Many many people from the "deep south" do not condone dogfighting so for her to say that is accepted, she is wrong. It might be accepted for a small sub culture of our population but that should not make it OK.
Whoopie Goldberg defends Vick
- Thread starter Scooter
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Okay, I am by no means trying to justify what Vick did as NOT being wrong but here is my take. After being able to think about this since I posted my own thread about how it is called "culture", I thought about it, and here is my thought 
Vick was obviously "taught" growing up in the "deep south" however "deep" it maybe that dog fighting, all though illegal, was okay. Now, obviously if this is what he grew up around I am sure one of his role models took him to these fights to witness the blood shed as a child and seeing it more and more as he grew into a young adult. AGAIN I AM NOT TRYING TO JUSTIFY What he did as NOT wrong, just trying to rationalize Now, in some parts of the world they worship rats and cows and here we are feeding them to snakes (rats) and slaughtering them for our own food consumption (cows). In Korea when you walk into a meat market you see cages full of puppies and dogs ready to be slaughtered for someones dinner plate. And what can we do about it? NOTHING! Though I know PETA was trying to stop that in Korea awhile back. It bothers me terribly that people in certain parts of the world eat our dogs and cats but it all goes back to culture. These same people that eat them think we are crazy for caring for our pets the way we do and don't understand how we can keep them in our homes. Unfortuantely, what we are taught as young children from our adult influences sometimes stay with us and therefore it is seen as "culture" to those involved. Just my little theory...... opcorn:
Vick was obviously "taught" growing up in the "deep south" however "deep" it maybe that dog fighting, all though illegal, was okay. Now, obviously if this is what he grew up around I am sure one of his role models took him to these fights to witness the blood shed as a child and seeing it more and more as he grew into a young adult. AGAIN I AM NOT TRYING TO JUSTIFY What he did as NOT wrong, just trying to rationalize Now, in some parts of the world they worship rats and cows and here we are feeding them to snakes (rats) and slaughtering them for our own food consumption (cows). In Korea when you walk into a meat market you see cages full of puppies and dogs ready to be slaughtered for someones dinner plate. And what can we do about it? NOTHING! Though I know PETA was trying to stop that in Korea awhile back. It bothers me terribly that people in certain parts of the world eat our dogs and cats but it all goes back to culture. These same people that eat them think we are crazy for caring for our pets the way we do and don't understand how we can keep them in our homes. Unfortuantely, what we are taught as young children from our adult influences sometimes stay with us and therefore it is seen as "culture" to those involved. Just my little theory...... opcorn:
She wasn't supporting Vick but she was in a half-a$$ way trying to excuse it behind the curtain of culture and what I was saying is that is BS!
In this day and age we are a bunch of PC apologist and don't want to judge anyone........thats BS. If someone is backward or "F"d up then we say its their culture. We have to stop making excuses for people when victims are involved. If its the type of clothes he wears...whoopi dee do, but if some one is suffering (eg the dogs) then its not culture its is sadism!
In this day and age we are a bunch of PC apologist and don't want to judge anyone........thats BS. If someone is backward or "F"d up then we say its their culture. We have to stop making excuses for people when victims are involved. If its the type of clothes he wears...whoopi dee do, but if some one is suffering (eg the dogs) then its not culture its is sadism!
I won't agree she was trying to excuse.
She was trying to say HEY, this goes on...from an early age...what are YOU...middle class and above, America willing to DO about it? Is your plan simply to jail everyone AFTER they are caught and the dogs are damaged/killed? What about BEFORE it even happens? If it's about the dogs then it AIN'T about putting people in jail AFTER they hurt dogs...it's abut STOPPING that before it happens and changing their mindset as youths.
When people won't even admit it exists and is NOT "wrong" to some...how in the heck can you effect change?
She was trying to say HEY, this goes on...from an early age...what are YOU...middle class and above, America willing to DO about it? Is your plan simply to jail everyone AFTER they are caught and the dogs are damaged/killed? What about BEFORE it even happens? If it's about the dogs then it AIN'T about putting people in jail AFTER they hurt dogs...it's abut STOPPING that before it happens and changing their mindset as youths.
When people won't even admit it exists and is NOT "wrong" to some...how in the heck can you effect change?
I just don't like when people say it is culture...that word is just to often used to explain bad and even illegal behavior.
When she says its his culture she is impart excusing him because she puts some of the blame on his community.....which is BS because a lot of people who are black, poor and in the south, grow up not fighting dogs.
When she says its his culture she is impart excusing him because she puts some of the blame on his community.....which is BS because a lot of people who are black, poor and in the south, grow up not fighting dogs.
And why should the community NOT be blamed or share the blame? Why should his parents not? The man was fighting dogs in the family garage at what 9-12 years old....I suppose he was a grown man then, capable of making his own choices? I suppose he learned that purely by osmosis? Does the villiage and child cliche' not apply anymore?
His "father" is only too happy to ask for a handout and then tell all in interviews...but where was he, then? Where was the guidance and discipline and consequences then?
Again I ask myself at least, what exactly would help dogs more...jailing people AFTER they have fought dogs...or teaching children to respect dogs as a form of life and empathy in general? What has history shown us as far as the value of prison time as a deterrent to other related activities like drug selling/use, gang banging, theft, etc?
remember...these folks dog fighting are already embracing the "outlaw" lifestyle....going to prison isn't so much a worry as an eventuality. How again...does that help the dogs involved?
As with so many things, education has to come...it's the true solution. It works in concert with punishment...but neither is strong enough alone I don't think.
His "father" is only too happy to ask for a handout and then tell all in interviews...but where was he, then? Where was the guidance and discipline and consequences then?
Again I ask myself at least, what exactly would help dogs more...jailing people AFTER they have fought dogs...or teaching children to respect dogs as a form of life and empathy in general? What has history shown us as far as the value of prison time as a deterrent to other related activities like drug selling/use, gang banging, theft, etc?
remember...these folks dog fighting are already embracing the "outlaw" lifestyle....going to prison isn't so much a worry as an eventuality. How again...does that help the dogs involved?
As with so many things, education has to come...it's the true solution. It works in concert with punishment...but neither is strong enough alone I don't think.
If he was 15 maybe but he is 27. He has to take responsibility for his actions. You could use "culture" to explain any crime if you wanted to............
There is a difference between Culture and Counter Culture. If anything Dogfighting is part of a deliberated counter culture that is fighting against society.
I personally think it is insulting to young poor black men raised in the south to say that it is part of their culture to torture animals. Just like some who wish to explain away the violence in the inner cites as being part of the "culture". Its not and to say so...in my opinion is racist.
There is a difference between Culture and Counter Culture. If anything Dogfighting is part of a deliberated counter culture that is fighting against society.
I personally think it is insulting to young poor black men raised in the south to say that it is part of their culture to torture animals. Just like some who wish to explain away the violence in the inner cites as being part of the "culture". Its not and to say so...in my opinion is racist.
Who said he shouldn't? not me, not Whoopi? But the fact is...he WAS 15 years old, and fighting dogs...and 12...and 11...and 10...no one stepped in, even to turn him in. Should he be punished? Of course! Should punishment be the ONLY way to deal with this issue, esp as relates to youth? IMO, Hell no. Should communties be offering youth some better options as far as guidance and activities? Hell yes...again MO.
As to your comments on race. I will agree, which is why my comments are based on culture, not race. A race may have many cultures within it...and vice versa.
I agree then also with your statement on counter culture, which people have always had...and IMO always will have. Whether it be train robbing outlaws, hate groups, or dog fighters. Not everyone on Earth values 'goodness' or wants to be nice...we need to know that and try our best to catch things early on in the lives of children, education again is vital.
As to your comments on race. I will agree, which is why my comments are based on culture, not race. A race may have many cultures within it...and vice versa.
I agree then also with your statement on counter culture, which people have always had...and IMO always will have. Whether it be train robbing outlaws, hate groups, or dog fighters. Not everyone on Earth values 'goodness' or wants to be nice...we need to know that and try our best to catch things early on in the lives of children, education again is vital.
Ahh I see.
I agree with you on the last statement actually...
Hopefully some good ideas on nipping this behavior in the bud before it becomes a criminal issue, and an animal welfare issue, are out there somewhere! Lord knows I'd rather the gov't spend my money on educating the youth than locking them up as adults (well that's not 100% honest, lol I'd rather they not spend my money at all and just let me keep it heh).
Good chatting!
I agree with you on the last statement actually...
Hopefully some good ideas on nipping this behavior in the bud before it becomes a criminal issue, and an animal welfare issue, are out there somewhere! Lord knows I'd rather the gov't spend my money on educating the youth than locking them up as adults (well that's not 100% honest, lol I'd rather they not spend my money at all and just let me keep it heh).
Good chatting!
If bringing up "it was what he was taught/the culture of the south" wasn't meant to somehow justify it, then why even talk about it? If it has no relevance as an excuse, then why discuss it? I don't think anyone, including Whoopie meant to completely excuse him, but talking about the fact that he was brought up that way, and such behavior is accepted in places is meant to excuse even slightly.
I don't look at it as "culture" persay but what he was taught from a young age as to what is okay. Obviously he wasn't taught right from wrong which is what you are supposed to teach your children when they are young. As far as culture in the "deep south"....We have just as much illegal dogfighting going on here in Boston as some other big cities such as New York has. So I don't buy into the whole "South" thing mentality, whatever............
Yes, that great idea came from the sometimes controversial Sue Sternberg, and it's one of the better ideas I've heard for trying to change life for the dogs while dealing with the extant mentality of those areas.
JMHO, I think that someone as high profile as Whoopi should have more brains than to say anything that could even be remotely construed as condoning dog fighting in America. I don't blame Behar for the horrified glance. What Vick did was abhorrent.
JMHO, I think that someone as high profile as Whoopi should have more brains than to say anything that could even be remotely construed as condoning dog fighting in America. I don't blame Behar for the horrified glance. What Vick did was abhorrent.
I just whatched the video excerpt of the "View" with Whoopie. I , am once again, stunned by "celebrities" , making excuses for other "celebrities. The fact that Vick learned that dog fighting is acceptable (as well as practiced) in the South, is preposterous. I live in the south and although it is not the "Deep South", I have spent lots of time in the "Deep South" and have many friends from that region. I do not know any that use dogs for fighting!!! I have in my travels heard of dog fighting and seen dogs in shelters that have been used for such purpose, but none of my southern friends would even think of condoning such an act.
To say it is part of his cultural upbringing and a learned behavior, and to excuse it on those grounds, is unacceptable. That would be like saying that all Germans, raised during the 2nd World War beleived the same way Hitlers followers believed. I know a lot of Germans and am myself of German ancestry and none of us condone what Hitler did.
Bottom line... wrong and right, good and evil. Choices! We all have to make them. Vick , being an adult, certainly should know the difference between what is morally right and what is evil.
To say it is part of his cultural upbringing and a learned behavior, and to excuse it on those grounds, is unacceptable. That would be like saying that all Germans, raised during the 2nd World War beleived the same way Hitlers followers believed. I know a lot of Germans and am myself of German ancestry and none of us condone what Hitler did.
Bottom line... wrong and right, good and evil. Choices! We all have to make them. Vick , being an adult, certainly should know the difference between what is morally right and what is evil.
I don't look at it as "culture" persay but what he was taught from a young age as to what is okay. Obviously he wasn't taught right from wrong which is what you are supposed to teach your children when they are young. As far as culture in the "deep south"....We have just as much illegal dogfighting going on here in Boston as some other big cities such as New York has. So I don't buy into the whole "South" thing mentality, whatever............
