whelping and raising a litter program

stevinski

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#1
I noticed on another thread tht a few people mensioned this.
and i was just wondering how you would do it
i mean couldnt so many backyard breeders just get you to welp there litters and charge extra for the pups?
i mean how would u go about it?
would u screen the parents?
or only accept certain breeds or what?

just interested cause its a interesting thing to do
 

Mach1girl

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#2
There are people that make $$$$ by whelping and raising someone elses litter????Geeeezzzzz, I had a hard enough time with my own let alone doing it over and over for someone else! That just makes it easier for BYBs to keep pumping those puppies out......have someone else deal with the headaches! Dont get attached.......shame...........

I am assuming this is what you mean, because I havent heard of it before now.
 

stevinski

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#3
thats what i meen
yuh cause i assume that people wouldnt want to raise byb litter so thats y i asked how they would do it!
 

stevinski

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#5
what if it was an accidental litter!
and the owners were working full time and were willing to pay alot of money for their puppies to be raised properly
 

Mach1girl

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#7
I am a very busy person and a very busy family, I didnt have time but I made the time..

Shame on people like that!
 

MomOf7

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#8
AmberwayGSD said:
No good breeder would have someone else whelp and raise there litter.
Thats not true.
There are plenty of breeders who may raise the pups on thier grounds but have assistants take care of things while they are off campaigning thier dogs in shows and what not.
Guess its just a matter of view.
I see nothing wrong with it. Probably because I understand the time and travel it takes for field trialers to campaign thier dogs. Its tough competition and many travel thousands of miles to run thier dogs in a trial. Then travel further to hit a few more. Basically they are on the road during trial season.


Its something I considered doing. Raising litters for breeders.
I have the know how and have lots of kids to help socialize the pups.
Being too busy with dogs can make the puppies head start on life a not so good of one.
Wouldnt it be nice to know that the pups got everything possible to give them the best head start on life?
Sitting in a kennel just doesnt cut it for me. I do so much more than that.
All pups are whelped in my home. I have a whelping bed made for the bitch but will allow her to whelp where she feels most comfortable within reason of course. I will let her whelp one or 2 there then move her and the babies to the whelping bed. (usually my bed is where the whelping starts:rolleyes: )
I am there through the whole whelping process. The pups are handled daily.
They get exposed to water at 4 weeks old in my bath tub. They get clipped wings to get them use to the smell of birds and the feel of the feathers in their mouths. They get played with daily by us and our kids. They get a head start on potty training and crate training. I take a large crate and make that thier bed and keep it open for them to come and go as they please untill they get older. Then we start taking them out to go potty. We have plush toys, hard toys, bones, small bumpers for them all to play with. The bumpers we use to get them an early start on retrieving so that when they are all 7-8weeks old most of them are retrieving and bringing the bumper back to you. They get vet checks and wormed and vaccinated.

Its not an easy job and it requires a full time person.
If I had to have someone else raise my pups thats the kind of enviornment I would want them to have. This is why I considered whelping other breeders pups. Doing just one litter at a time when I am not having a litter since I only raise 2 litters a year max.
I may complain about raising pups but all that hard work pays off when you place them in homes and the owners are amazed at how far along the pups are.

Another thing I considered doing is keeping a pup for a client or a client of a breeder to get it through potty training and building its drive to retrieve. Then sending it off to the pro trainer they decide to use. Thats a good paying job.
$500 a month.

So again its a matter of view.
 

bubbatd

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#9
I didn't realize you had 2 litters a year !! How many B*tches do you have ??
 

MomOf7

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#10
I only have 2 breedable bitches. Im no big time breeder. More of a hobbyist. I like to have plenty of time to spend with each of my dogs.
They get bred once a year. Sometimes not. Depends on whats going on at the time. I have 2 males and one cockerspaniel.
I just put down one of our dogs and found a home for the female with retinal folds.
I like having a special bond with my dogs. Having just a few makes it easier.

I will be keeping one pup out of Molly who just got bred. Not sure if I will keep a female or male yet. Female preferrably but a male will do just fine. I plan on co-owning the pup with the studs owner who is a pro trainer. We want to take the pup and prove both parents as producers.
He also wants to do a repeat breeding if the pups turn out great. He is just as excited about this breeding as we are.


Now when your talking about a large kennel with 20+ dogs who are running trials and your traveling across the nation I can see how it would be hard to whelp your own litter. Or if the breeder is in the middle of a move ect ect..There are many reasons to have a service like that.
I can see how others would be concerned as to why would that person want to send thier dog away for the whelp. It would be hard for me to do. But when your so busy you dont have the time to spend with the pups in thier most critical time of thier lives it would be nice to know that your pups are well taken care of.
I had a friend explain it to me and it made sense. Why not pay someone you trust to take care of your litter when you cant devote the time...Sure make time but are the pups really getting all they can?
I feel thats the responsible thing to do...If you have a litter planned and something comes up you have a way to work it out.
JMO
 

smkie

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#11
Once is year is wayyyyy to often. Once every three or more is better for the mom. YOu need to look into that seriously or your going to burn your girls out, it is too hard on them. If you are breeding to enhance the breed that is all you would want in one dog's lifetime anyway.
 

MomOf7

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#12
smkie said:
Once is year is wayyyyy to often. Once every three or more is better for the mom. YOu need to look into that seriously or your going to burn your girls out, it is too hard on them. If you are breeding to enhance the breed that is all you would want in one dog's lifetime anyway.
Well I have consulted with my vet and friends who also breed. Once a year provided the bitch is in good health is just fine. 99% of lab breeders breed thier bitches once a year. If I thought it was burning them out believe you me I wouldnt breed them. They are my babies and I want whats best for them.
Our vet is a breeding specialist and I trust his judgement completely. He is used by many many breeders and is the vet for a specialty club. He also does all the health certs except cerf. He is very knowledgable and takes classes often to update.
I also retire my females at 5 or 6 I dont breed them till thier old. Breeding older females wears them out faster.
I have never read or seen anywhere that breeding once a year is bad for a healthy female. I have never had anyone have say that to me. This is a first.
If you can provide valid information specifically directed at labs that contests my opinion then please share it. I am not closed minded.
I have seen that breeding every 6 months is unhealthy and un ethical.
 

bubbatd

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#13
I agree with you as to turning the whelping and raising over to someone else. I would do it,( the taking in ) but would have to start at least a month ahead with frequent visits to make sure the female trusts me and is comfortable. Then a week before due date until the whelping ,with a stay of at least 8 weeks. would only do this through a recommendation of our mutual vet. It's a huge reponsibility and though I've done it with great success... there would have to be a safety net for any law suit. What if the Mom died or pups died ?? How much to charge ??? I could have never put a price on someone else whelping my babies. I only had litters every other year at the most. Never bred any female more than twice. Mine were bred for my own need/wants and my waiting list , which in some cases were over 2 years. I never had to advertise . Yes, I made a mistake once. I turned a family down on a pup as I felt they weren't ready. I said that the next litter ( which I knew Bubba would be siring in a year or so,) they could have pick of the litter. All came to past and they were ready and thrilled. Four years later, they returned Chip to me to rehome. They moved.. had another baby and Chip has been my pal for 5 years now, Their loss... my gain. He's the last of my line .... Hawthorn Hill's Chip of Bubba. Bless his heart !
 

bubbatd

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#14
Smkie posted as I was writing.... I just presumed a litter a year meant you did one female one year and the other another year... giving them each 2 years between litters. After having a litter and being a good Mom for at least 2 months or more , no way are they ready to be bred their next heat. I'm really not going to bash you or your vet. You know your dogs... you know your time and money ( with 7 kids ? ) . I really don't want to knock you as I've admired and enjoyed you postings. I know you love your dogs.... please breed for the bettering of the breed , do the CERF and screen your buyers well.
 

IliamnasQuest

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#15
My personal feelings are that a person shouldn't breed more litters than they personally have time for. If they are, then they're in it for the money.

Properly raised puppies DO take quite a bit of time. They should be assessed often, handled, socialized and introduced to various stimuli way before they ever go out to new owners. If someone doesn't have time to do this, then I think it's wrong that they're breeding. THEY are the ones responsible for the puppies, THEY should be the ones doing the daily viewing and handling and getting to know the strengths and weaknesses of each pup.

These are probably the same people who send their dogs off to get trained by someone else and then sit back and count the titles. I figure you can't take credit for a title when you didn't do the training.

There are dog PEOPLE who breed, and then there are dog OWNERS who breed. Dog owners do it for reasons other than true companionship with their dogs.

Just my honest opinion .. and thanking the heavens above that the last breeder I purchased from was a dog person and not just an owner. I wouldn't buy from someone who didn't raise their pups personally.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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#16
smkie said:
Once is year is wayyyyy to often. Once every three or more is better for the mom. YOu need to look into that seriously or your going to burn your girls out, it is too hard on them. If you are breeding to enhance the breed that is all you would want in one dog's lifetime anyway.

Sorry, smkie, but waiting that long between breedings is not the best for the bitch.

Momof7 did not say she breeds the same bitches twice per year over and over again.

She trains and competes with her dogs. She certainly does not breed ANY bitch before age 2 and OFA ratings.

Leaving intact bitches for long periods between breedings is asking for a pyometra.

Most breeders breed a bitch, then leave her open for a season, and then breed her again.

This is what is done by RESPONSIBLE BREEDERS, and they spay bitches when they are no longer to be bred, for their own health and safety.

Dr. Robert Van Hutchinson, who is one of the foremost and extremely well respected canine reproduction specialists in the US STRONGLY recommends using a bitch across as FEW seasons as possible because the health of the uterus deteriorates with EACH SEASON. He OFTEN recommends bitches be bred back to back.

Canine reproduction is fascinating and very different from most mammals. Bitches reproductive cycle is driven by progesterone, not estrogen. Progesterone is an inflammatory hormone, and with each season, the uterus is inflamed, engorged, and swollen with blood. When this inflammation cycle continues instead of abating after the season, you have a life threatening uterine infection called a "pyometra".

Using young bitches and breeding them on every other season, or even back to back occasionally, and then spaying them fairly young is the most healthy for them.

:D
 

Zoom

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#17
You learn something new...

I have one question then, with no snarkiness intended: If breeding every other heat cycle or even back to back is considered healthy for the dog, then why do we see so many young "burned out" bitches coming from puppymills? Generally speaking, when any of us on here see the words "she was bred every heat cycle for the last three years, there is a huge outcry. Is it more acceptable for breeders like Mom to breed that close because they do the testing and all other responsible things?
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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#18
Zoom, probably because they DO breed them over and over and over again, unlike a responsible breeder, who might use a bitch 2 or 3 times and then spay her.

Hutch has some excellent articles hanging out on the web, and I have attended 2 online repro seminars by him. He is known as the "pupsicle god", as he has an extremely high success rate with frozen semen using surgical implantation.

:)
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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#20
Here is what he says in the last online semimar....

Question: I have been told that back to back breedings are actually safe for a bitch. What are your feelings on this and if you agree at what age do you feel the first breeding is best planned?

Dr. Hutch:

I normally suggest the first breeding after 2 years of age because that is when the health clearances are done. This varies by breed. Because the bitch is unique in that their heat cycle is progesterone driven, the progesterone in a non-pregnant bitch lasts just as long as in a pregnant. There is NO ADVANTAGE to skipping a cycle in a bitch and a uterus is probably healthier in a pregnant bitch than in a non-pregnant bitch
If you like you can read the entire transcript at http://kerlins.net/bobbi/Eriador/links/caninereproduction.html

:D
 

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