Vaccinations
- Thread starter mrose_s
- Start date
How often have you had them done? Meg's last distemper/parvo was two years ago. I titered last year, and the results for both were well above the "covered" number. Titered again a month ago, and while the parvo titre was still quite high, the distemper isn't far out of the covered range. I'll do a titre again next year, but the vet guessed she will need the distemper shot. Which makes the "every three year" recommendation probably pretty accurate, at least for Meg.
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/petvacc.htm
I no longer vaccinate my guys, and I work at a holistic boarding kennel where it's not required. Most boarding kennels around here will accept titers. The problem with a kennel saying they don't require anything is they can scare off people who don't understand both sides of the issue, plus it gives us the 'out' to have them go to the vet before coming here to at least get the dog checked over to make sure there aren't any health issues. Not usually a problem if the dog is well cared for and on a good diet, but if it's a dog that is fed cheap food and lives in the backyard, chances are it's either going to bring something here, or it hasn't been exposed to enough other dogs to have immunity.
Also depends on how busy we are, what 'bugs' are going around - if there's an outbreak of something or the dog is a risk (one of the off leash parks a few years ago had a huge lice issue, so any dog that went there had to get treated before coming here), then we do our best to educate them on the pros and cons of it.
So far our biggest issue is hot spots in the wet weather, from the dogs constantly playing with each other and gooing up their necks.
We're also pretty small (40 dogs at the very max, usually half that) so that makes a difference too.
Lana
I no longer vaccinate my guys, and I work at a holistic boarding kennel where it's not required. Most boarding kennels around here will accept titers. The problem with a kennel saying they don't require anything is they can scare off people who don't understand both sides of the issue, plus it gives us the 'out' to have them go to the vet before coming here to at least get the dog checked over to make sure there aren't any health issues. Not usually a problem if the dog is well cared for and on a good diet, but if it's a dog that is fed cheap food and lives in the backyard, chances are it's either going to bring something here, or it hasn't been exposed to enough other dogs to have immunity.
Also depends on how busy we are, what 'bugs' are going around - if there's an outbreak of something or the dog is a risk (one of the off leash parks a few years ago had a huge lice issue, so any dog that went there had to get treated before coming here), then we do our best to educate them on the pros and cons of it.
So far our biggest issue is hot spots in the wet weather, from the dogs constantly playing with each other and gooing up their necks.
We're also pretty small (40 dogs at the very max, usually half that) so that makes a difference too.Lana
Okay thanks, he's been getting them yearly up until now (last year was a bit late because we changed vets and forgot it was due)
But I'm thinking I might have to kennel him again in the next year, but I'm not sure where. I have a few places picked out I'd like to move to but havn't decided where yet. Probably to my hometown, in which case I ca crash with my Auntie but she has a dog and about 4 cats, I couldn't take Buster wiuith me and I'm not sure what the kennels are like there. So i might just do it this year aswell to save the hassell of finding a kennel at short notice. ...
But I'm thinking I might have to kennel him again in the next year, but I'm not sure where. I have a few places picked out I'd like to move to but havn't decided where yet. Probably to my hometown, in which case I ca crash with my Auntie but she has a dog and about 4 cats, I couldn't take Buster wiuith me and I'm not sure what the kennels are like there. So i might just do it this year aswell to save the hassell of finding a kennel at short notice. ...
I'm not sure but I don't think you can titer test for Bordatella.
I don't think everyone really understands how titer tests work because I don't think many of us truly understand how the immune system works, maybe there just isn't enough information and too many vets are clueless about it.
One fallacy is that in an adult dog, a low titer test reading DOESN'T mean your dog has no immunity to that disease. There are two ways the immune system responds to vaccinations and/or the natural disease and titer tests only measure one (humoral immunity). If you take your dog for a walk and you happen to pass by the poo of a dog who was recently vaccinated for parvo, that dog will be shedding low levels of the virus and it will stimulate YOUR dog's immune system. If you titer test, your dog may have high levels for the parvo virus as his immune system has recently come across it. If he hasn't left his backyard for 2 years and hasn't come across parvo, he may have a low reading because there are no current antibodies (humoral immunity) fighting the virus. He may *still* have and most likely will have, cell mediated immunity, which is the memory cells a healthy immune system has whenever he was first exposed to the virus.
So, vaccinations are useless once your dog has formed immunity to that disease. You don't need a zillion antibodies floating around constantly because when a healthy dog comes into contact with a disease, his immune system (which has previously been exposed) will mount a healthy, two fold response to the perceived attack. Vaccinations only put stress on an otherwise healthy immune system
The antibodies that a titer test measures die in a few days anyway because it is the memory cells that protect for long term immunity.
What Titer Tests DO show is that yes, your dog who frequently goes to places where he will come in contact with low levels of the virus (or high if there really is the disease around) has a working, healthy immune system that mounts a response to the possible virus and that he isn't an unlucky 'non responder' whose system will never mount a response.
It is much safer to titer test instead of vaccinating once a dog has had it's 1st year vaccination on an adult immune system. It is impossible to "boost" an immune response as vaccinations are supposed to do, as the dog *already* has immunity via his unmeasurable (unfortunately) memory cells.
I hope that helps. I'm not expert but I read a LOT when considering how to vaccinate my own pup.
I don't think everyone really understands how titer tests work because I don't think many of us truly understand how the immune system works, maybe there just isn't enough information and too many vets are clueless about it.
One fallacy is that in an adult dog, a low titer test reading DOESN'T mean your dog has no immunity to that disease. There are two ways the immune system responds to vaccinations and/or the natural disease and titer tests only measure one (humoral immunity). If you take your dog for a walk and you happen to pass by the poo of a dog who was recently vaccinated for parvo, that dog will be shedding low levels of the virus and it will stimulate YOUR dog's immune system. If you titer test, your dog may have high levels for the parvo virus as his immune system has recently come across it. If he hasn't left his backyard for 2 years and hasn't come across parvo, he may have a low reading because there are no current antibodies (humoral immunity) fighting the virus. He may *still* have and most likely will have, cell mediated immunity, which is the memory cells a healthy immune system has whenever he was first exposed to the virus.
So, vaccinations are useless once your dog has formed immunity to that disease. You don't need a zillion antibodies floating around constantly because when a healthy dog comes into contact with a disease, his immune system (which has previously been exposed) will mount a healthy, two fold response to the perceived attack. Vaccinations only put stress on an otherwise healthy immune system
The antibodies that a titer test measures die in a few days anyway because it is the memory cells that protect for long term immunity.
What Titer Tests DO show is that yes, your dog who frequently goes to places where he will come in contact with low levels of the virus (or high if there really is the disease around) has a working, healthy immune system that mounts a response to the possible virus and that he isn't an unlucky 'non responder' whose system will never mount a response.
It is much safer to titer test instead of vaccinating once a dog has had it's 1st year vaccination on an adult immune system. It is impossible to "boost" an immune response as vaccinations are supposed to do, as the dog *already* has immunity via his unmeasurable (unfortunately) memory cells.
I hope that helps. I'm not expert but I read a LOT when considering how to vaccinate my own pup.
Just wanted to clarify something. Vaccinations are generally not the same strain over the years. Your dog may have antibodies to strain X but this does NOT make them immune to strain Y. Yes, it's the same disease, and the same pathogen most like, but it is NOT identical. Your body works by receptors and the binding to those receptors. If your dog has stored away the information on how to fight off X, then whenever the dog is invaded by X again then his memory cells will be activated by an antigen presenting cell and they will undergo clonal expansion to fight off X. But if the cells are presented with Y instead the body goes "huh, don't know that one" because it's never been exposed to that strain before. It doesn't get partial credit because it's been exposed to X before and Y is similar. Instead it has to start the process over again.
This is why vets vaccinate year to year. It's not money (though vaccinations do bring in money) entirely, but strains do change. You can only shoot for the most common strain of that year. There's no way to vaccinate against them all. Now, the good news is that yes, sometimes the most predominant strain IS the same year to year, in which case a titer would work because your dog has been actively exposed to that strain over and over again throughout his daily ventures.
But yes, this means your dog can get sick while still being vaccinated for a certain disease because the strain that attacked his body wasn't the one he was vaccinated for and it may have even been the one that showed up in his titers, either.
Also this is why it's a good idea to bring your dog (and children for that matter if you're anal about your child getting a disease) out to parks. That way they're exposed to everything that the other dogs have and the body can start building up a tolerance to the low levels of infection that it's being bombarded with.
Like my immunology professor said, the best thing you could do for the semester is go to the first football game so that you're exposed to everything everyone else has.
This is why vets vaccinate year to year. It's not money (though vaccinations do bring in money) entirely, but strains do change. You can only shoot for the most common strain of that year. There's no way to vaccinate against them all. Now, the good news is that yes, sometimes the most predominant strain IS the same year to year, in which case a titer would work because your dog has been actively exposed to that strain over and over again throughout his daily ventures.
But yes, this means your dog can get sick while still being vaccinated for a certain disease because the strain that attacked his body wasn't the one he was vaccinated for and it may have even been the one that showed up in his titers, either.
Also this is why it's a good idea to bring your dog (and children for that matter if you're anal about your child getting a disease) out to parks. That way they're exposed to everything that the other dogs have and the body can start building up a tolerance to the low levels of infection that it's being bombarded with.
Like my immunology professor said, the best thing you could do for the semester is go to the first football game so that you're exposed to everything everyone else has.
I think that depends on how different the two strains are AND whether the vaccinations are updated to cover the new strains anyway. In the case of parvo - vaccinations weren't 'updated' to include the new strain anyway.
If the two strains are similar enough in structure some seem to believe that the immune system is 'smart' enough to cope with that anyway.
If the two strains are similar enough in structure some seem to believe that the immune system is 'smart' enough to cope with that anyway.
Yes, if they're similar enough the body can adapt. Or maybe you have enough IgM ready to fight the other strain on its own (IgM goes for a class of microbes where as IgG (the much more 'potent' antibodies) is much more specific as to which microbes it can take on).
The antibodies used to capture the cells (such as in phagocytosis) have a hyper variability region which can adapt to more than one set of receptors. But there can be (and are) thousands of different strains. Some people think just because their dog is vaccinated vs bordatella the dog can NEVER catch kennel cough until the titer comes back abnormal and are mighty pissed when they do. Well, sorry, but your titer was for the prevalent strain over the last few years.
The antibodies used to capture the cells (such as in phagocytosis) have a hyper variability region which can adapt to more than one set of receptors. But there can be (and are) thousands of different strains. Some people think just because their dog is vaccinated vs bordatella the dog can NEVER catch kennel cough until the titer comes back abnormal and are mighty pissed when they do. Well, sorry, but your titer was for the prevalent strain over the last few years.
Pros and Cons of Vaccines
More and more vets are coming arouind to the view that the persistent vaccination of dogs primarily benefits the manufacturers and bottom line of vet hospitals that push the shots.
Many vaccines have lengthy or lifelong coverage and yet we are sold on injecting our dogs every 1-3 years knocking their immune system all to hell and possibly shortening their lives.
For more insight on this see:
http://www.dogs-4life.com/pros-and-cons-of-vaccines-for-dogs.html
Hope it helps
MRB
More and more vets are coming arouind to the view that the persistent vaccination of dogs primarily benefits the manufacturers and bottom line of vet hospitals that push the shots.
Many vaccines have lengthy or lifelong coverage and yet we are sold on injecting our dogs every 1-3 years knocking their immune system all to hell and possibly shortening their lives.
For more insight on this see:
http://www.dogs-4life.com/pros-and-cons-of-vaccines-for-dogs.html
Hope it helps
MRB