umm.. Red flags on this breeder???

[Spirit2010]

umm.. Just curious.. I was looking at Dobe breeders, and I was wondering if there are any red flags on her or not? I was looking at breeders in our area. But I don't know. She seems to be good, but I'm not totally sure.

http://www.freewebs.com/chsk9/

Thank you for reading!

 

[Bahamutt99]

They look pretty good. Here are the things I noticed.

PRO: They take their pups back for life. That's awesome.
PRO: I like that they chip their puppies to keep track of them for life.
PRO(Kinda): I like how they emphasize working ability on their front page, although I wonder that they don't appear to have any titled dogs themselves yet.
PRO: They show their dogs.
PRO: Their dogs are beautiful.

Unsure: $1300 for a pet puppy? Is that high? I'm not familiar with how much the breed generally costs.

CON: 1-year-health guarantee. Some health problems don't show until later.
CON: Using and offering stud service on a dog who is not yet 2 years old, and not working titled.
CON: They do test for Von Willebrands, but it doesn't look like they're testing for any other genetic disease?

My personal opinion: I would keep looking. But then again, it took me years to figure out who I wanted to get a dog from.

 

[Mayasmydobe]

Spirit... are you thinking of getting a Dobe soon?

 

[Spirit2010]

Spirit... are you thinking of getting a Dobe soon?

Heck no. Not until later in life. A lot later! Just looking. Because I have absolutely nothing to do as of now. Training is done for today with both dogs. I just love looking at Dobes for some reason recently. And I'm busy with the two I have now.

 

[Toller_08]

I completely agree with Bahamutt. I thought the same things while looking at their site. Oh, and just for the record, I've noticed that Dobies seem to average between $1100-$1500, pet or show quality. At least that's what it's like around here anyway.

 

[doberkim]

walk right by.
what does this breeder offer that makes them responsible?
they talk about working aspect - they do not seem to train, they certainly have not titled, a single one of their own dogs in ANY sport, much less schutzhund.

their showing is international shows, etc only - that is because for the most part, the structure on their dogs leaves a lot to be desired. Almost any doberman can obtain an International CH - while it's fun tos how your own dog, this is not a title that means the doberman meets breed standard. compare their dogs to the drawings on the DPCA website - nothing alike.

where is their health testing? vWD is not something to be ignored, but it certainly isn't the only thing you should be looking at for the breed! What about hips, heart, thyroid, eyes, liver...

So, ignoring that I know nothing of their dogs temperaments, nothing they have done have proven their dogs working ability, their proper structure, or their health. who on earth would pay 2500 for a cropped show prospect from them is out of their gourd, IMO.
i wont even go into the lines of the dogs...

skip this breeder, there are red flags all over.

 

[bubbatd]

I would NEVER buy a pup from an on line breeder !!!! PERIOD!!

 

[showpug]

walk right by.
what does this breeder offer that makes them responsible?
they talk about working aspect - they do not seem to train, they certainly have not titled, a single one of their own dogs in ANY sport, much less schutzhund.

their showing is international shows, etc only - that is because for the most part, the structure on their dogs leaves a lot to be desired. Almost any doberman can obtain an International CH - while it's fun tos how your own dog, this is not a title that means the doberman meets breed standard. compare their dogs to the drawings on the DPCA website - nothing alike.

where is their health testing? vWD is not something to be ignored, but it certainly isn't the only thing you should be looking at for the breed! What about hips, heart, thyroid, eyes, liver...

So, ignoring that I know nothing of their dogs temperaments, nothing they have done have proven their dogs working ability, their proper structure, or their health. who on earth would pay 2500 for a cropped show prospect from them is out of their gourd, IMO.
i wont even go into the lines of the dogs...

skip this breeder, there are red flags all over.

I agree with everything you said here. Honestly, anyone can brag about an Internationl/National championship...they are SO EASY to aquire and only take a day.

 

[Hillside]

walk right by.
what does this breeder offer that makes them responsible?
they talk about working aspect - they do not seem to train, they certainly have not titled, a single one of their own dogs in ANY sport, much less schutzhund.

their showing is international shows, etc only - that is because for the most part, the structure on their dogs leaves a lot to be desired. Almost any doberman can obtain an International CH - while it's fun tos how your own dog, this is not a title that means the doberman meets breed standard. compare their dogs to the drawings on the DPCA website - nothing alike.

where is their health testing? vWD is not something to be ignored, but it certainly isn't the only thing you should be looking at for the breed! What about hips, heart, thyroid, eyes, liver...

So, ignoring that I know nothing of their dogs temperaments, nothing they have done have proven their dogs working ability, their proper structure, or their health. who on earth would pay 2500 for a cropped show prospect from them is out of their gourd, IMO.
i wont even go into the lines of the dogs...

skip this breeder, there are red flags all over.

That and I don't recall ever seeing price listed on any reputable breeder's site before. It may be a small detail, but it immediatly set my alarm. That and a couple of thier dogs looked like giant Min PIns.

 

[Spirit2010]

Heres what got me on my red flag spree.....

Free Puppies?(Under our no-cost breeding agreement program).

Under our no-cost breeding program,from time to time we will have outstanding female puppies available for this program. Each breeding pup is home-raised by a carefully chosen family who will raise puppy indoors with there family, who returns her to be bred by age 2 years old . The family then provides both the pre-natal and post-natal , returning the litter to Cherie Smith of Rain-Storm Kennel when the pups reach 7 weeks of age. With the family having fully met the terms of the breeding agreement, the adult female is then theirs to keep.

Families who wish to participate in Rain-Storm Kennel breeding program must live within 60 minutes of our zip-code (46234), pass a screening interview, home visit ,agree to the breeding arrangement, and sign the breeding contract. According to the terms of the contract, Rain-Storm Kennel provides the stud service, veterinary care(for puppies), food supplies(for puppies) , any necessary medications(for puppies) and coast of spay(for mother).

 

[Bahamutt99]

I don't know, that last part doesn't sound too bad to me. Its kind of like when a breeder has a set of nice pups that they want to keep tabs on. They keep some, and then they farm some out to other homes who raise them for the breeder. When the pups are of age, they are able to evaluate them fairly and decide if they want to use them in their breeding program. It can be a mutually beneficial agreement, done properly.

 

[Goldendoodler]

They seem like a good breeders.

 

[SizzleDog]

They seem like a good breeders.

How do you figure? Is it the lack of titles other than an Int. Ch. that practically *any* dog can get? Or, is it the lack of health testing? (And no, vWD is the most basic and CHEAPEST of tests to do, that hardly qualifies as health testing in my book) Or, possibly, is it the fact that their dogs are overpriced? You can get a dog from a *responsible* breeder with AKC Champion parents with titles on both ends for less than what they're charging.

Or maybe it's because they seem to farm out their bitches for free, in order to produce more litters than they can handle in-house.


Sorry, I can't agree with you. These people are NOT good breeders.

 

[Spirit2010]

Thanks for clearing it up everyone!

 

[Xerxes]

The biggest red flag for me was that they said their dogs and puppies are vWD free. There's just no way to guarantee that.

 

[SizzleDog]

Xerxes - vWD can be tested for, and it is an inherited disorder. Breed a clear to a clear, and you get clear puppies.

Now if they were to say their pedigrees are vWD free, I'd laugh and call 'em liars!

 

[puppylover2007]

I would NEVER buy a pup from an on line breeder !!!! PERIOD!!

i agree with grammy. when you decide to get a dobe or whatever breed you decide always go with locally owned ones, that way you can go see the breeders home and way of life and all the puppies including the sir and dam. but that is just IMO.

 

[noludoru]

Sizzle, can you tell me more about "International" titles?

 

[Bahamutt99]

I have to politely disagree with the "no online breeders" as well. A website is just a tool for a breeder to show what they have. It is up to the buyer to make contact and ask the pertinent questions. Done correctly, and with common sense, you may find your perfect match that way. I found my dogs' breeder through the 'Net, and I in turn use the 'Net to show off what I have.