being in the breeding business for many years with Goldens, I never saw a difference with all intact during heats when it was handled properly. In fact the males had to be given permission to mount ! Goldens are woosies .... at least mine were ! None of mine were neutered or spayed except for health reasons. Today it's a different story ....
Spay/Neuter ALL the time?
- Thread starter LizzieCollie
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It has no affect on them what so ever if they are altered to "proform" it's a bunch of bull and that is usually the way a man would think, not calling you a man of course *wink* LOL 
! I have a friend who has an altered male GSD who proforms in Schutzhund/protection work and is one of the TOP dogs in his class. Not having his kahunas has no affect. Some of the top drug dogs around are spayed and neutered shelter dogs and they have high drive .
! I have a friend who has an altered male GSD who proforms in Schutzhund/protection work and is one of the TOP dogs in his class. Not having his kahunas has no affect. Some of the top drug dogs around are spayed and neutered shelter dogs and they have high drive .
Im still debating the whole spay or not spay thing. I dont want to spay her as a pup, I would like to wait till a first maybe second heat so she has a chance to mature. I'd have to check prices though, i have NO idea how much a spay procedure costs here, or anywhere else, the few dogs ive owned have never been altered.
BUT since Lizzie is my dog and my dog only Im at a loss right now
BUT since Lizzie is my dog and my dog only Im at a loss right now
All I know is unspayed females can develop Pyometra, and are also more likely to get Ovarian and breast cancer. Males are more likely to get prostate and testicular cancer. Spaying and neutering deletes the chances of testicular and ovarian cancer as well as Pyometra and greatly reduces the risk of the other cancers. Altering before the first heat cycle greatly reduces the chances even more. That is why I will always always do it. I also do pediatric spay and neuters. What do I care if my dog is slightly bigger or thinner because of it. I will never show or breed so it makes no difference. I will not own purebreds unless rescued and they come spayed or neutered already from the humane society. Defiantely a big fan of pediatric altering though.
Collies aren't a very mucular built dog and where you have a female I would spay her before the first heat which is usually around 8 - 10 months. However, if you do decide to wait then I would only let her have one heat cycle but then a spay will also cost you more money usually because they have been in heat and they aren't a puppy anymore.
Until I get an intact bitch with intentions to breed her, my Border Collie will remain unaltered. I supervise him and train him well enough that he is not unmanageable. I don't worry about "accidents" with him because I dont give them a chance to happen. If there is a bitch in standing heat in the same area as my dog, he goes on leash.
My Papillon is neutered mainly for health reasons. I was told he would be more willing to eat and may put on weight if he was neutered - he did, because he wasn't stressed out when there were females around. ANY female got him worked up, not just ones in season.
I would definitely spay all bitches I do not plan to breed, but I'm hesitant to neuter a male unless there is a very convincing reason to do so. I have no problems with my intact male, I see no reason to neuter him at this point.
My Papillon is neutered mainly for health reasons. I was told he would be more willing to eat and may put on weight if he was neutered - he did, because he wasn't stressed out when there were females around. ANY female got him worked up, not just ones in season.
I would definitely spay all bitches I do not plan to breed, but I'm hesitant to neuter a male unless there is a very convincing reason to do so. I have no problems with my intact male, I see no reason to neuter him at this point.
There are plently of low cost clinics all over the place if money is a little tight. I love the low cost clinics, they are great, they take great care of my pets, do not keep them over night which I hate when vets do that, and they give you pain meds if needed or wanted and then you go home. Plus they don't cost you a fortune.
I have seen waaay too many people with unaltered females, who have been impregnated multiple times do to "accidents". I think that is crap. Either you spay/neuter or you watch your dog 24/7. If you don't do either of these things, you are attributing to over-population, period.
I think it's kind of unpractical to say that only people who are super-irresponsible will allow their unaltered dogs to breed... when my Mom was younger, they had a Chihuahua bitch who was very young and going through a silent heat very pre-maturely. This was in the 70's, when spaying & neutering was not a common practice. During a short potty break in the backyard (which, I'm sure all of us allow our pups outside for a while) the nieghbors Lab jumped the fence and bred her, somehow, and they had no idea until it was too late. She died. Because most people live within close proximity of other people's dogs, especially in the suburbs, and have yards that they allow their dogs to roam often, it is not safe to let an unaltered dog outside alone. For instance, my neighbors had a Doberman girl who was not spayed, and she would often dig to get into my backyard when Gonzo was outside because they loved each other (we have a doggy door, so Gonzo does go outside for short periods alone). If he wasn't neutered, that could've meant an unplanned pregnancy easily!
I also think it's pointless, and stressful, to put a dog through the urge to breed if you are not a responsible breeder. Having bunnies really opened my mind up to this! My two boys hated other bunnies, were horrible indoors with marking, and would literally jump the bones of every blanket/stuffed animal/leg in sight!! After they were neutered, allll of these behaviors went away and they were calm & sweet for the rest of their lives. And so much happier! I've experienced the same affect after spaying & neutering dogs AND cats. We had a Himalayan female who, before she was spayed, would literally sit at the door all day wanting to go outside so she could breed! After spaying her, she was a totally content & happy cat. I have only seen the good affects of spaying & neutering. I have also seen unaltered dogs go absolutely ape-shvt! Like, a really intelligent lady brought her in-heat BC to Flyball practice 3 weeks in a row... all of the males on the team are neutered, except for one show/working Dobie. The neutered males could care less about her. The Dobie could not even do recalls, and was a complete wreck the whole time! Like, foaming at the mouth, acting erratic, barking, trying to hump my dog... it is not pretty.
But honestly, if you consider yourself responsible enough to watch your dog at all times, never allow it in a situation where ANY strange dog could come in contact with them without supervision, and you're happy dealing with the marking & neurotic behaviors of unaltered dogs - that is awesome! However, NO ONE is perfect and one moment of laziness and just letting your unaltered dog into the backyard for a few minutes alone can easily cause an "oops" pregnancy.
I think it's kind of unpractical to say that only people who are super-irresponsible will allow their unaltered dogs to breed... when my Mom was younger, they had a Chihuahua bitch who was very young and going through a silent heat very pre-maturely. This was in the 70's, when spaying & neutering was not a common practice. During a short potty break in the backyard (which, I'm sure all of us allow our pups outside for a while) the nieghbors Lab jumped the fence and bred her, somehow, and they had no idea until it was too late. She died. Because most people live within close proximity of other people's dogs, especially in the suburbs, and have yards that they allow their dogs to roam often, it is not safe to let an unaltered dog outside alone. For instance, my neighbors had a Doberman girl who was not spayed, and she would often dig to get into my backyard when Gonzo was outside because they loved each other (we have a doggy door, so Gonzo does go outside for short periods alone). If he wasn't neutered, that could've meant an unplanned pregnancy easily!
I also think it's pointless, and stressful, to put a dog through the urge to breed if you are not a responsible breeder. Having bunnies really opened my mind up to this! My two boys hated other bunnies, were horrible indoors with marking, and would literally jump the bones of every blanket/stuffed animal/leg in sight!! After they were neutered, allll of these behaviors went away and they were calm & sweet for the rest of their lives. And so much happier! I've experienced the same affect after spaying & neutering dogs AND cats. We had a Himalayan female who, before she was spayed, would literally sit at the door all day wanting to go outside so she could breed! After spaying her, she was a totally content & happy cat. I have only seen the good affects of spaying & neutering. I have also seen unaltered dogs go absolutely ape-shvt! Like, a really intelligent lady brought her in-heat BC to Flyball practice 3 weeks in a row... all of the males on the team are neutered, except for one show/working Dobie. The neutered males could care less about her. The Dobie could not even do recalls, and was a complete wreck the whole time! Like, foaming at the mouth, acting erratic, barking, trying to hump my dog
... it is not pretty.But honestly, if you consider yourself responsible enough to watch your dog at all times, never allow it in a situation where ANY strange dog could come in contact with them without supervision, and you're happy dealing with the marking & neurotic behaviors of unaltered dogs - that is awesome! However, NO ONE is perfect and one moment of laziness and just letting your unaltered dog into the backyard for a few minutes alone can easily cause an "oops" pregnancy.
I think that all "pet" dogs should be s/n just to be safe. Why take the chance of a male running away or a female getting pregnant?
Izzy and Frodo were s/n 3 days after their 6 month birthday. I wouldn't say it was normal circumstances though, being littermates and everything. I was a nervous wreck until it was done, worrying about a silent heat and what the incest puppies would look like, lol. If Frodo would even show interest in her rear end I would freak out.
It has been 3 weeks and I already see a difference in Frodo. He seems much more cooperative and willing, although I don't know if that is related to him being neutered or not.
Izzy and Frodo were s/n 3 days after their 6 month birthday. I wouldn't say it was normal circumstances though, being littermates and everything. I was a nervous wreck until it was done, worrying about a silent heat and what the incest puppies would look like, lol. If Frodo would even show interest in her rear end I would freak out.
It has been 3 weeks and I already see a difference in Frodo. He seems much more cooperative and willing, although I don't know if that is related to him being neutered or not.
I do find it odd that no one here mentioned the risks of cancer and Pyometra that they are giving their dogs when they decide to not spay or neuter. I am sure there are some rare risks with anesthesia to do the procedure but it is such a routine thing most vets could probably do with their eyes shut. When the risk of cancer is at hand as a result of not doing it, I will have every animal altered that I ever own. I couldn't imagine putting my animals at that risk.
I did as well as Elegy ! {QUOTE}"Also, just because your dog isn't around males that can get her pregnant, doesn't mean, like Elegy, said that she is safe from pyometra or mammory cancer. I would get her spayed before anything like that can happen to her"__________________
Unfortunately, it doesn't change people's minds though .
Unfortunately, it doesn't change people's minds though
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For my own dogs, I spay bitches once their breeding "time" is over and the males are dependent upon their attitude. For pets, they are altered around 18 mos to allow for proper growth and development (physical and mental). This is what I recommend to my puppy buyers *and it's in their contract not to do it before 10 mos of age, male or female*.
I do recommend that a bitch that is not going to be bred be spayed due to the risk of pyometra. There is a much higher percentage of intact bitches that develop that in relation it breast cancer. (I'm going to jinx myself here, but in my family's 40 yrs of breeding Collies and keeping intact bitches, we've never had one with breast cancer, but have had two with pyo).
FWIW - Collies aren't a muscular breed in the sense of Pit Bull muscle, but if they are allowed to mature and get proper exercise, they can get good muscle tone (my dogs have the thighs of greyhounds!)
I do recommend that a bitch that is not going to be bred be spayed due to the risk of pyometra. There is a much higher percentage of intact bitches that develop that in relation it breast cancer. (I'm going to jinx myself here, but in my family's 40 yrs of breeding Collies and keeping intact bitches, we've never had one with breast cancer, but have had two with pyo).
FWIW - Collies aren't a muscular breed in the sense of Pit Bull muscle, but if they are allowed to mature and get proper exercise, they can get good muscle tone (my dogs have the thighs of greyhounds!)
mach, what experience exactly do you have with working dogs, training, and showing a dog to say that their drive diminishes? can you explain that to the multitude of people who show their dogs?
or why at least 50% if not more, of the top dogs in many breeds (including my own) in both agility and obedience - are neutered and spayed?
or why at least 50% if not more, of the top dogs in many breeds (including my own) in both agility and obedience - are neutered and spayed?
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