should I condone this woman's behavior?

[antipunt1]

Hey Chazhound:
lol, it's been a while; I guess it's cause the day to day is a lot easier recently to take care of Wanta

However, something recently has occurred, and I once again need the pro's help for just a little while . I need to know if 'forced hugging' is a 'condoned behavior'. As of now, I'm a little ambiguous with how I should treat this.

Essentially I was walking Wanta at night and a woman with two large dogs (looked like St. Bernards) came over. She was one of those super-chipper types, and kept exclaiming how 'cute' Wanta was. It was all semi-great (I say semi b/c I'm not exactly fond of over-chipper ), until she said she HAD TO hug Wanta b/c she was SO cute. Two things let me go with this 1) it seemed to me she was alright because her dogs were very well behaved and 2) She said she was a dog trainer. Also, she was kind of nice overall

This is when the problem began. Wanta is very shy/jumpy, and usually doesn't trust strangers immediately. She hates any sort of hard petting or hugging from people she hasn't met; she prefers to kind of jump around you and maybe get a quick scratch or lick in. This woman, DESPITE Wanta making clear cries (sharp whining noises), hugged Wanta tight. After she got a good hug in on Wanta (took 3-5 seconds I think), Wanta just stopped moving/whining. This was when I was confused: Was wanta a) Now OK with this and realizes she's nice Or b) scared to death and not moving b/c she thought she was about to be killed.

The lady "dog trainer" later apologized chipperly to me, and said "oh but i JUST had to hold her, She' so CUTE" . My mom seemed amused, but I wasn't. It was until I calmed down that I realized the rational thing to do: ask the pros.

So right now I'm confused. Was this an appropriate act? There seems to be two sides to this as far as I can guess

1) No, it was a bad thing to do; under no circumstances should you hug a dog against their volition. It's close to abuse, and she probably WAS afraid of dying. It was a communicator that humans are forceful, and thus, was bad overall for socialization. That woman was probably not a dog trainer, and if she was, a horrible one.

2) No need to dramatize this. What she did was actually GOOD for Wanta because it communicated to her that what she originally interpreted as a threat was really a friendly hug. The woman's soft embrace (after whining) was a communicator of peace and effective socialization. The ends justifies the means: it was actually good in further communicating that humans are harmless. Also, the fact that Wanta wasn't afraid of the woman after hugging means she wasn't harmed psychologically

Thx again :hail:

 

[corgipower]

I hope you never go to her for training :yikes:

Most dogs do not like to be hugged tightly even by someone they know and trust, let alone a stranger. Even Morgan who loves to cuddle and doesn't at all mind being hugged would be resistant to a complete stranger restraining her, because in essence that's what they're doing.

Wanta probably got quiet because of learned helplessness. The dog realizes they can't get out of this so they just give up.

Please make sure she gets some good people experiences so that she doesn't think everyone is going to do this.

 

[Sweet72947]

What that woman did was inappropriate. If she does that to the wrong dog, she will probably get bitten. A REAL trainer should know that you don't go and hug random dogs on the street!

 

[Maxy24]

I would never allow a stranger to hug my dog. Wants probably stopped moving out of fear. Next time just say that she doesn't like to be hugged but that they can pet her or give her a treat instead. If she still tries, be firm and be willing to just take Wanta and walk away. If she ever decided to use biting to save herself from scary woman you'd have a big problem on your hands.

 

[release the hounds]

knowing my dog doesn't like to be hugged, I would have declined and kept walking. Then the woman couldn't have done anything.

 

[Buddy'sParents]

... She hates any sort of hard petting or hugging from people she hasn't met...

Knowing this about my dog, I never would have let the woman close enough to hug. But we live and learn and I echo the advice that Wanta have some positive interactions with people so the pup knows not everyone is overly chipper and huggy. Good luck!

 

[Bunny82]

What that woman did was inappropriate. If she does that to the wrong dog, she will probably get bitten. A REAL trainer should know that you don't go and hug random dogs on the street!

What Sweet said.

 

[antipunt1]

"Even Morgan who loves to cuddle and doesn't at all mind being hugged would be resistant to a complete stranger restraining her, because in essence that's what they're doing."

The reason why I just felt kinda bothered overall was b/c of my golden rule: give love, not take love, from the dog (b/c they give enough with all the licking!). I learned on these forums that 'hugging' was not a dog's love language. For this reason, I'm always looking at Wanta's reception of a hug in general, even when I do it. To me it just seemed a bit selfish to hug a dog ESPECIALLY if they clearly did not want to. It meant YOU wanted love despite the dog's comfort, ESPECIALLY concerning the fact that dogs interpret a hug more as aggression than compassion...

"I would never allow a stranger to hug my dog. Wants probably stopped moving out of fear. "

It was my hunch. I'm somewhat HORRIFIED to learn my instinct was correct. Sometimes I get pissed at my parents for not following my lead in terms of first-intuition. If so ginger and this may have been preventable. Conversation:
me: *somewhat peeved* "didn't you feel something was WRONG with that woman?"
Mom: *flattered at all the 'your dog is so cute'* "nah, you're too sensitive"

"Next time just say that she doesn't like to be hugged but that they can pet her or give her a treat instead."

I think next time I'll just say "there was a psycho-woman who ruined it for the rest of you"

" knowing my dog doesn't like to be hugged, I would have declined and kept walking. Then the woman couldn't have done anything. "

True that. It's going to occur the next time this happens...I should've followed my instinct. That said, I have some backbone/confidence problems when it comes to 'saying No' (I just get all passive-aggressive and do a half-glare), and seeing my oblivious Mom did NOTHING to help in the matter. Not to shift the blame, but it's kind of hard for me to be so independent about all this. My parents didn't say a word about Ginger. And my Mom thought I was over-sensitive/crazy when it came to this psycho-woman. All I have is instinct, and large enough a brain to come to these forums

PS: thx for all the feed so far! I see a 100% recognition that the woman was crazy, and a lousy trainer. I CAN'T Believe she said she was a trainer; you realize how much that statement ALONE made me doubt myself? But thx for restoring my confidence everyone...though I'm still bothered by this event in general.....I feel like I just got scammed by some pyramid scheme...

 

[corgipower]

I CAN'T Believe she said she was a trainer; you realize how much that statement ALONE made me doubt myself?

True. When I meet a random dog on the street, even if I ask if I can pet the dog (which isn't often but it does happen), I don't announce that I'm a trainer. Even if they clearly could use a trainer.

 

[Phoenixangelwyngs]

Anytime I meet a dog I don't know.... I'm hesitant. The dog needs to feel safe. I love animals and they mostly LOVE me too. I'd never go hug someone else's dog. I have a few lap climbers that just HAVE to be in my lap.... and I'll briefly hug them... but never someone else's dog unless the dog is CLEARLY ok with it.

 

[Giny]

I think it was inappropriate of her, even selfish of her, to do so. She certainly didn't have the dog's best interest in mind, most dogs don't like to be hugged let alone by strangers. Boomer loves to be picked up by strangers, he doesn't mind, but hug him and he'll feel threaten. So would Kassie and Tilly.

And I think your dog stop struggling because of B, was to scared to do anything. Poor guy!

Due to Kassie's size (she's quite tiny) she becomes a target for people wanting to pick her up. And when strangers do, Kassie always has the most pitiful bugged out eyes, staring at me, face.

 

[Bunny82]

I was going to say that to me the stopping struggling part sounded like the poor thing momentarily shut down.

 

[lizzybeth727]

I agree with what everybody else said. I have a small dog too, that people like to pick up and hug, but about 98% of the time I will stop them and ask them not to pick her up off the ground. I tell them that most dogs don't like being held by strangers, and they usually comply. If they don't, I slap their hands away from my dog.

That said, I do hug my dog a lot to try to desensetize her to it. I only do it when I'm in a really good mood (she picks up on that and is more likely to see it as a good thing when I'm happy), and I also try to follow it with a fun reward. I also make it a point to hug the service dogs I'm training, because they get it a lot from people in public. I was working with a dog yesterday, he was laying nicely on the floor, when a little girl (3 or 4 years old) came up behind him and laid down on his back and hugged him.:yikes: I was very scared, but just immediately started shoving treats in my dog's face. And of course got the girl off of him as quickly as I could. He was nervous of course, but tolerated it well, and I think that my "practice hugs" probably helped in that situation.

 

[JudithMary]

That is so annoying. THe first visit Jake and I had to the vet one of the clients in the clinic just picked him up cause he was so cute. Never asked. Anyway the vet tech removed him rather rudely from the woman as she was trying to get him on the scale at the time. I had this problem with my shih tzu. I would tell people she would bite which she never would have but I think dogs find it insulting and scary to be picked up by strangers. I only pick my animals up when I have to. Other than that I wait for them to come up, or invite them.

 

[antipunt1]

"I was very scared, but just immediately started shoving treats in my dog's face."
I lol-ed

 

[bjdobson]

I think she was very inappropriate and lucky you have such a wonderfully well trained dog. Dogs, in GENERAL, do NOT like to be hugged or picked up by strangers. If she's a trainer, I'd never want to go to her class.