Question About Halties

[BaileysMom]

Has anyone here ever heard of Halties and how do you feel about them?

I use a Haltie with my dog so that he doesn't pull (harnesses don't work too well on big dogs since alot of their strength is in their upper bodies and it actually makes it *easier* to pull, or so the woman who lead the dog training class I had him enrolled in about a year ago told us) and the Haltie also keeps it so he can't slip out of his leash. I'm very comfortable with using it, since he seems comfortable in it, he can easily breath, pant, and slober with it on, and it serves it's purpose.

Anyway, the reason I ask is this: I went to the vet today to get his yearly vaccinations, preventive medication, and bi-annual tests for parasites and I had TWO people ask me why it was necessary to have my dog in a mussel. One of them actually WORKED at the vet. They asked in a way that seemed like they thought I was being mean to my dog! The other person who asked was using a pinch collar on his dog.. Call me crazy, but I think a Haltie is a little more comfortable for dogs then a pinch collar...

Do Halties look like mussels to anyone here? I never thought they did.. Is there anything I don't know about Halties that could hurt my dog or something?

 

[Zoom]

I myself am not a big fan of Haltis or Gentle Leaders because they are a crutch to mask the real problem: Pulling. The moment you take the Halti off the dog, it's going to start pulling again. I see it every single day at work.

Haltis/Gentle Leaders can also cause nerve damage to the back of the skull where the buckle is and also right below the eyes where most of the straps lie. If someone gives a correction with one of these head collars, they risk serious neck injury.

The pinch collars, while mean looking, do serve their purpose and are safer for a dog than a choke chain. If fitted properly, the collar should be sitting on the dog's neck the same as a buckle collar, not digging into the skin. I find it works great to stop a dog from pulling and to teach it not to pull even when a normal lightweight nylon buckle is on.

 

[Muttlies3]

Idiots often mistake Gentle Leaders and Halties for muzzles. I used a Gentle Leader to train Nala (Lab/Dane) to walk properly. I don't use it anymore because she is thoroughly trained, however, I would use it again for training.

They are perfectly fine if used correctly - I however would not use it as a normal walking collar... only for training.

 

[BaileysMom]

Do you have any sources I can look at about the nerve damage or injury it can cause? Any information about pinch collars and are there any risks in using those?

I didn't like the idea of a pinch collar because I don't like the idea of ANYTHING tightening around my dog's neck... The Halti doesn't seem to bother him at all, which is why I have been using it, but I haven't heard of it hurting any dogs... I really don't feel comfortable with using a pinch collar at all.

I have tried to train him to stop pulling through click and treat or just stopping when he pulls. Neither of those seem to work. I have been very patient with both methods and was using them before getting the Halti, but we just haven't had any success. Any suggestions on other ways of training him not to pull?

What about when he sees something and tries to get out of his leash? Sometimes he'll see something that freaks him out and will try to slip out of his collar and run away from it. The Halti always stays on and gives me control over the situation so I don't have a doggie running loose.

 

[Gempress]

I personally don't like haltis. They're a restraint device, not a training tool. While they do make it so the dog can't pull, that's all they do. Haltis give neither a correction nor a reward to a dog. Therefore, they're not a training aid. I've known several people who've use haltis for years. But put their dogs on the regular collar, and they will pull like mad. The haltis haven't helped the dog learn anything.

In addition, haltis can be bad. If a dog lunges while on a halti (like tries to chase a cat), they can give themselves serious neck injuries. And there's also a psychological factor involved. The pressure on a dog's muzzle imitates what a dominant dog does to a submissive. For some dogs, that makes them nervous or upset when wearing a halti.

Pinch collars look mean, but they're really not. The prongs on the collar don't "spike" the dog. Instead, the prongs give the skin on the neck a little pinch, with even pressure applied all the way around the neck. Much less chance of doing permenant muscle damage. Unlike the halti, pinch collars give the dog a clear signal when it's doing something wrong. That helps the dog understand what you want. I use a pinch collar when training my dog. He learned not to pull on the leash within a span of two weeks.

Keep in mind that there are plenty of positive methods where you don't have to use a halti or training collar of any kind. You don't need to use any method that you don't feel comfortable with.

 

[BaileysMom]

Idiots often mistake Gentle Leaders and Halties for muzzles. I used a Gentle Leader to train Nala (Lab/Dane) to walk properly. I don't use it anymore because she is thoroughly trained, however, I would use it again for training.

They are perfectly fine if used correctly - I however would not use it as a normal walking collar... only for training.

I have been using it as a walking collar. How do I train with it?

 

[Gempress]

You can't really train with the halti, per se. You don't give a correction or anything like that. All the halti does is give you more control while you're training the dog with another method, like clicker training or using treats. Do some research on positive training methods, and use them in conjunction with a halti.

 

[BaileysMom]

You can't really train with the halti, per se. You don't give a correction or anything like that. All the halti does is give you more control while you're training the dog with another method, like clicker training or using treats.

I have tried training with click and treat as well as just stopping until he stops pulling and it hasn't really worked out. Do you know of any other way I could train him that I might not have thought of?

 

[Gempress]

Take a look in the training forum. There are quite a lot of threads on that subject, full of good ideas.

 

[BaileysMom]

Take a look in the training forum. There are quite a lot of threads on that subject, full of good ideas.

Okay, I'm headed over there. Thanks for the help!

 

[Gempress]

And here, check this link:

http://www.clickerlessons.com/loose.html

 

[Dobiegurl]

I am not a fan of halti's. They look very uncomfortable and my dog almost had a heart attack when I put one on him one day. I use the prong collar, which in reality is not inhumane at all. It causes less damage than a choke chain because when pulling the prong it just pokes them but the choke chain you are actually choking them leaving more neck injuries. If your dog does not mind the halti and walks ok then I wouldn't switch to a prong. If he seems happy don't worry about what other people think. Let them think its a muzzle, who cares. In my opinion it in mo way resembles a muzzle except the fact that it is on its face. People are ignorant and might think your cruel for putting a "muzzle" on your dog but you are doing what is necessary to have a peaceful calm walk with your dog. I get looks everyday because Chico wears a prong and people think I'm abusing him but I really could care less what they think.

 

[JennSLK]

Personally I dont like them. Simply because they are a bandaid, not a cure.

Take it off and you have an bad puller again.

 

[IliamnasQuest]

Well, I've used haltis or gentle leaders in training multiple times and they've always been successful (meaning I've been able to go to a buckle collar).

I find it kind of funny that people are saying "halti's are just a band-aid, take them off and the dog still pulls" but they're advocating a prong collar. What happens when you take the prong collar off? The reason people are using prongs is that they haven't taught their dogs to walk calmly on a buckle collar. If a halti is a band-aid, then so is a prong.

The concept behind using an alternative collar of any kind is to be able to use it sparingly as you teach your dog the behavior of walking on a loose leash. If you become dependent on any of them, then they're all just band-aids. The nice thing I found about the halti/gentle leader is that it gave me the opportunity to reward for the behaviors I wanted. I've used them on numerous dogs over the years and all of the dogs have handled them just fine.

People talk about the injuries possible but I have yet to talk to anyone who actually saw a dog injured (or been able to speak to a vet who treated a dog with an injury from a halti).

As far as people asking about a muzzle .. well, if they were even slightly observant they could see that the halti allows the dog to keep their mouths completely open (unless there's pressure on it) and that the dog can pant, drink and bite just fine .. *L* I don't worry about what people like that think, but if they'd like to learn about the halti I tell them that it's similar to a halter on a horse, allowing me to turn the dog's nose to follow me.

In extreme cases I can see someone using a prong collar, but it's just a crutch. You're not teaching your dog anything. You're using something that creates pain in order to avoid having your dog do certain behaviors, and unless you use it sparingly and actively teach your dog the correct behaviors you'll just be stuck using the prong all the time. That's not training.

Oh, and before anyone tells me the prong collar doesn't hurt .. well, the very reason it DOES work is that it hurts and the dog wants to avoid that pain. If it didn't hurt, then you could be using a plain buckle collar with the same results. If someone wants to use a prong collar, that's their prerogative .. but don't shut your eyes to the reason it works.

(I HAVE used prong collars at times .. and I would use one over a choke chain anyday. I'll never use a choke chain again).

By the way, I think it's the company that makes the gentle leader who has come out with a "no pull" harness. I was looking at one at the training facility yesterday and according to the instructor who is using them, they're very effective. The leash attaches to a ring in the middle of the chest instead of on the back. People on my German shepherd list have talked highly about them too - and if they can stop a 90 pound shepherd from pulling they must work well!

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

 

[juliefurry]

I never used halti's but I used the gentle leader and it did not work one bit. My dog could never except a gentle leader, or any other kind of harness and even though the gentle leader made her more manageable it didn't fix the problem and when she doesn't wear it she still pulls.

 

[Zoom]

I find it kind of funny that people are saying "halti's are just a band-aid, take them off and the dog still pulls" but they're advocating a prong collar. What happens when you take the prong collar off? The reason people are using prongs is that they haven't taught their dogs to walk calmly on a buckle collar. If a halti is a band-aid, then so is a prong.

When coupled with good training, then prongs are very effective. My boss trains service dogs and many of her dogs are pulled from shelters and so have no concept of leash manners. She utilizes a prong, and by the end of the training program with them, those same dogs can be walked on a light nylon collar with the lead held by the tip of her index finger. Same in the training classes that I do; some dogs can't figure out how to not pull on a buckle, so the owners are taught how to use a prong and by the end of the course, the dog walks fine on a buckle. It's about teaching the dog to respond to the slightest pressure on the neck, and not having to haul on the leash to get a response. Prongs or chokes should be *training* collars, not *for the rest of the dog's life* collars. The point to should be to have your dog trained to the point where the collar and leash are just formalities to comply with leash laws.

I do know what you're going at though; I see people everyday who never learned how to use a prong, they just put it on and that was that. Those dogs still pull just as much with the prong because they've learned how and the collars aren't fitted properly anyway.

But that's true of any piece of equipment: When used improperly, of course the results aren't going to be what they should.

 

[IliamnasQuest]

No argument here, Zoom. There have been times when I've used a prong - generally because I only had a short amount of time with the dog and had to get results quickly (or the dog might end up at an animal shelter).

Training collars should be just that - for training - with the eventual goal to have a dog that responds regardless of what you have on its neck. But I think most people, once they start using a prong, end up using it forever.

Training is definitely a challenge! My goal in training is to have a dog that can be off-leash under most circumstances.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

 

[PerkyPawsCafe]

I'm a big fan of Haltis & Gentle Leaders. But like with anything, they aren't for everyone, every dog etc. When I trained service dogs, we used them on all of our dogs except maybe 1 or 2 that would just shut down with it on.

My dog is now 5, and I started him on the Gentle Leader. We now walk 99% GL free, but if we are going to be somewhere very distracting to my dog, it helps to have it on, he's less likely to pull.

Halti vs Gentle Leader: Halti's Can slip off the dog if the dog is a "backer" and tries to back and pull away. I like the way the Halti doesn't clip to a secure fit around the muzzle, more room for a wider mouth. Sometimes the Halti fits better on short nosed dogs. Gentle Leaders have a secure fit, and won't flip off.

Prongs: Not a fan. When I first started training service dogs, some of the dogs were on this collar. What I found was that they just got a tollorance to the pinch, and it didn't end up working. Also, sometimes they are hard to fit right, and will either be too tight, or too loose, which they then come apart.

All just my opinion.

~Tonya

 

[Dobiegurl]

Oh, and before anyone tells me the prong collar doesn't hurt .. well, the very reason it DOES work is that it hurts and the dog wants to avoid that pain. If it didn't hurt, then you could be using a plain buckle collar with the same results. If someone wants to use a prong collar, that's their prerogative .. but don't shut your eyes to the reason it works.

(

I wouldn't say pain just discomfort. Why do you think dogs don't pull on the halti because they don't want there face pulled by a thing around their muzzle. All alternative collars add a certain level of discomfort but that is what they learn from. You can't say that the halti doesn't affect them because if it didn't you wouldn't see an improvement in there heeling. All alternatives to the buckle collar are band aids but lead to the cure. When I said the prong does not hurt them I mean does not hurt them in the long run and does not leave damage to the neck as a check chain would. The halti gives the dog a moment of discomfort too, so don't shut your eyes to why that works either.

 

[sparks19]

I use a halti with Teddy. he walks fine on a leash but if he sees a rabbit or any other kind of critter there is nothing that will distract him and I would lose my arm lol. Teddy actually does not mind his halti. He plays with is on all the time, even with other dogs. But if there is a squirrel or a rabbit on our path he would drag me through the parking lot. Being a hound he loves them and has the instinct to chase them so he does. I am sure I could train him out of it but in the meantime I need to keep all my fingers attached. Otherwise he is a very good boy on his leash and doesn't pull