Plea for help

[Gempress]

I need help. Voodoo needs more training, and I'm not sure how to handle it. I've admittedly slacked on Voodoo's obedience. He knows "leave it", "sit", "stay", "down" and "come". The only one he's reliable on on is come (thank goodness). The rest leaves much to be desired.

I'm very ashamed that Voodoo is so disobedient. I used to pride myself on having well-trained dogs, but Voodoo is just so different from any dog I've ever owned.

He's drivey (or stubborn, whichever word you prefer), egotistical, extremely intelligent and full of energy. Think border collie in a bigger body with a harder head. And unlike the other big dogs I've ever had--they all thought they were itty bitty lapdogs---Voodoo seems to know exactly just how big he is and what he's capable of. Hence the whole cannonball-through-the-fence disaster.

The main problem is that he gets extremely impatient when training. I cannot use treats to bait him. If he doesn't get the treat on his first or second attempt, he just goes nuts with appeasement behaviors: crazy licking, frantic pawing, etc. It's to the point that if he even so much senses that he's not doing what I want--and dogs are very attuned to when you're displeased--he goes nuts with appeasement.

While I'm not oppossed to training collars used properly, I don't think that will work with Voodoo. Like I said, he knows exactly how big he is and I don't think he'll respond well to physical methods.

I really wish we had a good dog trainer in our area. I think I need a professional's help. But all the ones here are not very good. They're very inexperienced (from what I've seen, I'm actually a better trainer than they are). There is one couple that excels at obedience training, but I do NOT approve of their methods in the least. They teach almost solely by correction, and think that making a dog scream and squeal is perfectly acceptable. So I'm on my own in this one.

I'm thinking clicker training would work well on him. What do you think? Can anyone give me any tips or suggestions on how to handle Voodoo's training?

 

[Doberluv]

I think clicker training is excellent. As opposed to force based methods, it engages the dog more in his training. He becomes more focused and more interested. For a dog who tends to "spaz out," you can shape the behavior, reinforce approximations before he has a chance to spaz out. This gets him learning in steps rather than expecting and having to wait for the whole behavior to be perfect. We learn by reinforcement too. While you are reinforcing his good behavior, he is also learning how to reinforce yours....how to make you click/treat. There's a doubling effect, actually a snow balling effect. So, you're both being the trainers and the trainees. LOL.

Have you read the book, Culture Clash, The Power of Positive Training, Don't Shoot the Dog? There are others. Culture Clash, IMO is more all inclusive than the others, although the others are excellent too.

This is good too. But I still recommend the book, Culture Clash, Jean Donaldson for a foundation.

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/index.htm

 

[RD]

He sounds like Dakota! Lol. We had very similar problems when Dakota was an adolescent.

If he goes nuts in order to get the food, I would not use food as a lure for Voodoo. Keep the food hidden (can you get one of those treat pouches? I would be lost without mine) and only show it to him when he is going to GET the reward.

I imagine you've already worked on "charging" the clicker as the conditioned reinforcer? If you can get him to start working for the click, instead of the food, he probably won't be as frantic.

I practically retrained every behavior once I switched over to clicker training. I know it's a lot of work but it gives the dog a whole new understanding of those behaviors.

 

[sourjayne]

The link Doberluv posted has a lot of great articles for you to get started. I think Voodoo would love clicker training, especially if you can shape behaviors in small steps so he gets a high rate of reinforcement. He will also learn to work for the click instead of for the treat, which might solve some problems you mentioned.

I'm always amazed at how I can set out to shape my puppy to do something -- at first he's all in my face and trying to get at the treat, but as soon as he looks away from me, I click and he gets the treat. It only takes two or three times and he goes into "think" mode, stops trying to get at the treat physically and starts trying to figure out what it is that makes me click.

He's still trying very hard to get at the treat, but he's trying to get at it by pawing a box, nosing a yogurt lid, whatever it is I'm trying to get him to do. I like what Doberluv said about the doubling effect -- very true!

Check out some of the getting started articles at clickersolutions.com -- very good stuff and plenty to get you going! Remember -- small steps. When I work with Louie, I click first for a look in the direction of the object I want him to interact with or a muscle movement in the direction of the position I want him to be in. He gets reinforced every two or three seconds as long as he's working. Baby steps!