On that housetraining topic. . .

noludoru

Bored Now.
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
17,830
Likes
8
Points
38
Location
Denver, CO
#1
I'm really frustrated with Middie.

Like, lost my **** on him and smacked him in the face level of frustrated. Just so I illustrate what a big issue this is.

Backstory: Moo was very hard to housebreak, and I had to housebreak him room by room. We had the occasional accident in my first apartment due to 12-14hr days... so that I understand. My fault. First place I lived in CO we also had some issues, and I was convinced he thought the living room was his own toilet. That lasted for a little over a month, and the next place that we lived for a year and a half he never had a single issue. So, overall, we've had 6+ years of no issues and one month of consistent issues in one location, with a mix of dog door and asking to be let out.

We've lived here (SF home with fenced yard) for two months, and had some accidents that I've brushed off because they were understandable. He ate half a raw chicken off the edge of the counter and poosploded while unsupervised; neighbors fed him all kinds of crap and he poosploded, etc. Understandable stuff when no one was home or they were so sound asleep they didn't hear him whining or breaking out of the crate. :eek:

This morning, I was half asleep and Middie was whining a little in his crate, and I told him to shut up. He pooed a minute later, so I got to clean that up at 7. His level of whining was identical to "you got home" whining and "you're leaving" whining, so I wasn't concerned. Today, he has been completely supervised. If I can't watch him he's crated.

This evening, the BF is super sick and I was trying to take care of him, and forgot about the dog. He didn't whine or cry or give any indication, just went from standing by me to trotting downstairs and pooping. I saw him trot back upstairs and checked to make sure everything was okay and found a pile by the stairs.

I'm at a loss here. Part of it is a lack of clear signals (he doesn't ask to go out or to be fed or to have his water filled) and the rest is making me questions whether he's house trained or not. I thought he was until this.

Advice? Hugs? Beatings? I don't know what to do other than restrict treats, feed on a set schedule, and crate him when unsupervised. I've been doing the first two for two weeks and taking him out to potty (walks or yard) frequently. He's pooping out there, and still, this happens. He had a bathroom break AN HOUR BEFORE THIS. Has anyone dealt with this before? How did you resist the urge to murder your dog?
 

meepitsmeagan

Meagan & The Cattle Dog Crew
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
3,378
Likes
1
Points
38
Location
Michigan
#2
Crate, tether, or xpen would be my suggestions. All of which suck, but it's the foolproof way. PWCorgi did this not too long ago.

Pink's thread has a lot of good suggestions as well.
 

noludoru

Bored Now.
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
17,830
Likes
8
Points
38
Location
Denver, CO
#3
Crate, tether, or xpen would be my suggestions. All of which suck, but it's the foolproof way. PWCorgi did this not too long ago.

Pink's thread has a lot of good suggestions as well.
I read it. The tethering advice is especially good, it's how I housebroke him the fist time.

I guess. . . how am I supposed to be convinced he's actually housebroken after I do it for a few weeks? He's apparently fooled me completely into thinking he's housebroken before. That's what I'm worried about. :( There hasn't even been any pee for 90% of the poops, so I at least know it's not marking..
 

Fran101

Resident fainting goat
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
12,546
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Boston
#4
IMO It's a matter of the above (tethering, x-pens etc..) and RETEACHING his signals to go outside. When we ran into this problem with our family dog, similar to you we had to start from step-1 and then had to get potty doorbell for the door (which he still uses) some dogs just don't "get" how to tell us to go out or they are telling us and it's in a way that is invisible to us (whining, like you said, is to vague for us to really take notice).

Teaching the doorbell was our sign that he was for sure house trained and not just not doing it because he was stuck with us. We started slow (blocking off all "extra" rooms except the one we were in/the foyer with the door...but eventually, no more baby gates

since the doorbell we are at 0 accidents.
We tried jingling bells and they are lovely and easier to teach but they are too quiet.

We have this one it's called the "gotta go" button, it literally shouts " I GOTTA GO" http://www.amazon.com/Gotta-Go-Button/dp/B00D7X5U3E/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1412158018&sr=8-22&keywords=dog+doorbell
 

noludoru

Bored Now.
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
17,830
Likes
8
Points
38
Location
Denver, CO
#5
Holy crap, thanks Fran. I'm going to google this as well, but the basic premise is to teach them to press the button first, with heavy rewarding, so they get the command. Then teach them to press it every time we go outside and hope that he connects the button with asking to go out eventually?
 

Maxy24

Active Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
8,070
Likes
2
Points
38
Age
32
Location
Massachusetts
#6
I agree with Fran. Tucker took a very long time to poop housebreak. He stopped peeing in the house pretty early on but we would still have the occasional poop in the basement. Basically if he had to go poop and he wasn't outside he was going in the house. The most important things for him were understanding his poop schedule (getting his body into a routine) and teaching him to ring bells when he had to go out.


For the bells I did teach him to ring it with treats, but only for the least amount of time possible. As soon as he had the idea to paw at them when I pointed to them I stopped rewarding with treats, the reward was going outside. That's important since you only want him ringing them to go out, not in the hopes he'll get some other reward. We eventually did have to take them away as he suddenly realized how awesome it was to go outside and thought it was amazing that he could make us do it whenever he wanted (like every hour), but by the time we stopped the bells, which was after a few months, he had a strong habit of running to where the bells used to be (right next to the door). So now he runs to the door when he wants to go out. For some reason simply removing the bells stopped him from asking to go out excessively, I think when he walked by and spotted them out of the corner of his eye it put ideas in his head. But if he does have to go out for real he runs to the door, and that's because we used bells next to the door.


Schedule was very important. He poops every morning. If he didn't poop in the morning he was most likely going to have an accident. He only gets leashed bathroom trips so we always knew if he went or not. He also will poop one other time in the late afternoon. By knowing this we knew when he needed super strict supervision or needed to go out repeatedly to try and make him poop and when he didn't. If he didn't poop in the morning I would take him out a couple of hours later if I was going to be leaving the house so he wouldn't have an accident. If I was home I'd make him hold it with strict supervision (unless he specifically asked to go out again) because I did want to get him into the habit of holding it if he didn't go in the morning (he was not a young puppy at this time).

Some dogs always poop twice. We have dogs at work who if you put them back in their kennel after they poop once will always have an accident later. You need to wait for the second poop. So just knowing those sorts of things about his pooping habits will help.
 

Fran101

Resident fainting goat
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
12,546
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Boston
#7
Holy crap, thanks Fran. I'm going to google this as well, but the basic premise is to teach them to press the button first, with heavy rewarding, so they get the command. Then teach them to press it every time we go outside and hope that he connects the button with asking to go out eventually?
Yup, basically we just taught him to hit it/got a treat and then we asked him hit it every time before we went outside and he got a treat on the way back in if he went to the bathroom (which we always do anyway)

Then after lots of repetition you just kind of wait around until you know they have to go (the typical kind of whining behavior we look out for) and you play dumb like "what do you want?" eventually they will go to the door and ring it and have that AHA moment when you jump up to let them out
 

Maxy24

Active Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
8,070
Likes
2
Points
38
Age
32
Location
Massachusetts
#8
Oh yeah, we also started giving a special poop treat that he only got for pooping outside (Natural Balance roll). That helped encourage him to at least think about going while outside. Dad said he was pretty sure Tucker would force himself to poop just to get one of those treats.
 

noludoru

Bored Now.
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
17,830
Likes
8
Points
38
Location
Denver, CO
#9
Thank you both <3 So, so much. The asking to go out constantly is what I'm worried about. But it's better than the other option..

His schedule and food stuff I already (mostly) have down. If he gets fed around 2-4pm, he poops early in the evening - especially if we take a walk around the park, so that's what I try to do. Even if it's hailing, apparently.

I think part of it is some serious tummy upsets, as it's always been loose poo to diarrhea. I'm giving him some pumpkin along with his normal food, and hopefully this new endeavor will go well.
 

noludoru

Bored Now.
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
17,830
Likes
8
Points
38
Location
Denver, CO
#10
Oh yeah, we also started giving a special poop treat that he only got for pooping outside (Natural Balance roll). That helped encourage him to at least think about going while outside. Dad said he was pretty sure Tucker would force himself to poop just to get one of those treats.
I just died laughing.
 

pinkspore

Bat Ears Only
Joined
Aug 8, 2014
Messages
976
Likes
1
Points
18
Location
Central California
#11
Oh wow, that would be a nightmare here! Brisbane is OCD about pushing buttons, to the point that we have to keep things like dome lights out of his reach. He stole my husband's Staples Easy Button off the desk and ran the batteries down in a day. Forget treats or going outside, pushing buttons with his nose is its own reward.

We have jingle bells, which Ru learned to use by watching Briz. If Ru isn't jingling hard enough, Brisbane will help. Briz also shamelessly uses the bells as his own personal attention-getting device.

*jingle* "The water bowl is empty."
*jingle* "You've locked the cat in the towel cupboard again."
*jingle* "There's a gas leak."
 

noludoru

Bored Now.
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
17,830
Likes
8
Points
38
Location
Denver, CO
#13
We have jingle bells, which Ru learned to use by watching Briz. If Ru isn't jingling hard enough, Brisbane will help. Briz also shamelessly uses the bells as his own personal attention-getting device.

*jingle* "The water bowl is empty."
*jingle* "You've locked the cat in the towel cupboard again."
*jingle* "There's a gas leak."
I am completely worried about this.

OMG Fran you genius lol. You can record your own on this one! http://www.amazon.com/Bow-Wow-Butto...pplies_50?ie=UTF8&refRID=13ATTY6Z06N010SDZ2N8 future puppy want? I think so :rofl1:
LMAO.


So, day one of "you're in my sight AND on a tether so you don't run off in a split second to poo on things" is going well. Ish. We were tethering for a while because of his "strangers aren't allowed in the house" problem, and I forgot how useful it is. We had people over and he just chilled next to me and greeted them calmly. I've gotten wrapped around every chair and table in the house, and had my feet wrapped by rope already. Kind of annoying. Zero accidents, one outside poop, and one asking to go out.
 

pinkspore

Bat Ears Only
Joined
Aug 8, 2014
Messages
976
Likes
1
Points
18
Location
Central California
#14
I've gotten wrapped around every chair and table in the house, and had my feet wrapped by rope already.
This! I always assume people who say tethering is no big deal live in bigger houses than mine, or at least have less stuff. And wider hallways. And better coordination. And bigger dogs.
 

noludoru

Bored Now.
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
17,830
Likes
8
Points
38
Location
Denver, CO
#15
This! I always assume people who say tethering is no big deal live in bigger houses than mine, or at least have less stuff. And wider hallways. And better coordination. And bigger dogs.
I'm living in a large house cluttered with things. And I bet my coordination is worse. The dog being bigger only means he can trip you more firmly. I was the household joke today because the dog was actually wrapping me around the chair, only to lay at my feet. :rolleyes:
 

Fran101

Resident fainting goat
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
12,546
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Boston
#16
In my experience with tethering (while living in a barely 300 sq ft studio) is that wrapping it around your waist is much more helpful than holding it for some reason lol and all in all, it isn't too bad after a day of stumbles and figuring out what furniture to move

as for the bell being abused, just like a puppy crying in the crate, it's largely about making sure the bell=potty break, and not anything else that's fun. It takes a bit but our dog doesn't abuse the bell because he KNOWS he's not being rewarded for anything except using the bathroom and it's not a real walk, it's literally a visit to his potty spot and back for 5 minutes.

I made the ENORMOUS mistake with Merlin which was using the bell system for being let out into the yard. Problem was, the yard is fun, he can play in there and people/dogs walk by on the sidewalk.... the bell has since been retired because of such RAMPANT abuse

*dog walking up the street* I GOTTA GO I GOTTA GO I GOTTA GO
* squirrel in the yard* I GOTTA GO I GOTTA GO
* literally anything* I GOTTA GO

Now the bell=on leash potty trip ONLY
No funny business :rofl1:
 

Izzy's Valkyrie

Very Food Agressive
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
5,946
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Washington DC
#17
Tango is a silent little dude. If he has to go out, he just walks towards the door and sits. That's great, except if I'm in another room and have no idea he's waiting to go out.

I've gotten to the point where I take him out whenever we're leaving him home and whenever we're going to bed, even if he isn't asking. The only time he has accidents is when we sleep in on the weekends and don't take him out by 10am. Which means he's stuck in a crate on weekend nights (if we remember). Overall, taking him out even when he didn't need it, has made him massively more reliable about sitting at the door when he does have to go.

Funny thing is that he will make noise if he wants water, but not if he needs to poop :rolleyes:
 

Stingr69

Papillon Fan
Joined
Aug 4, 2014
Messages
166
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Central Arkansas
#18
Snoop Dogg just gives me "the STARE" and then we ask him what he wants. "Food"?...."Down"?...."Outside"?.... When he starts dancing around and wagging his tail, you called it. :)

Ditte is STILL learning. She will go wait by the back door now if we are all in the kitchen. If we don't pick up that tiny, silent signal we will be stepping in something soon. :rolleyes: I guess we really do need to get her a bell.

Somewhat related while we are on the subject - Snoop Dogg does go #2 EVERY TIME we go for a ride in the car. He gets out of the car and poops immediately every time. It does not matter if he pooped a few minutes earlier or not. This is actually a pretty convenient quirk.
 

pinkspore

Bat Ears Only
Joined
Aug 8, 2014
Messages
976
Likes
1
Points
18
Location
Central California
#19
In my experience with tethering (while living in a barely 300 sq ft studio) is that wrapping it around your waist is much more helpful than holding it for some reason lol and all in all, it isn't too bad after a day of stumbles and figuring out what furniture to move

as for the bell being abused, just like a puppy crying in the crate, it's largely about making sure the bell=potty break, and not anything else that's fun. It takes a bit but our dog doesn't abuse the bell because he KNOWS he's not being rewarded for anything except using the bathroom and it's not a real walk, it's literally a visit to his potty spot and back for 5 minutes.
I've never managed to make it through a day of tethering without kicking my dog repeatedly. If I'm holding the leash I at least have a vague idea of where he is. Tying it to me kinda works OK when I'm just walking forward, but add a laundry basket or groceries or any kind of backwards or sideways movement and then it's tripping and dog kicking all the way.

I was planning on cracking down on Brisbane's potty bell abuse until the gas leak, apparently he knows better than I do and I just have to figure out what the problem is and solve it for him.
 

noludoru

Bored Now.
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
17,830
Likes
8
Points
38
Location
Denver, CO
#20
Day two has been mostly in his crate. I keep the tether around my ankle, and it looks like a weird camo rope bondage scene or something.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top