What is the difference in you and the person who does what they need to do to keep their dog safe. The person who decides chaining their dog is what is the safest method.
If your dog is a nusiance and bothers the neighbors, a little training is needed. Spend time with your dog and do a little training and they will not be a nusiance. Putting a dog in a crate is the lazy way out. It is a lot easier to put a dog in a crate than to spend time and effort to train the dog.
Dogs can be trained to do just about anything their masters want them to do. They can even be trained to go into a crate and stay there. Why is it so hard to understand if the dog can learn to go to a crate and stay why can't a dog be trained to go to a chain and stay there. Many people think chaining a dog is cruel. Many people think crating a dog is cruel.
One thing that some people do not understand and I have not mentioned enough. I am not talking about the small lap dog. I keep forgetting many people have them as I see them as a nusiance. I can understand a person who has such a dog would not know anything about chaining a dog.
Lap dogs and real dogs are completely different things. They cannot be treated the same. If you own a lap dog you should never chain the dog outside. If you have to worry about some bird or wild animal killing your dog you should not chain it out. I keep forgetting about these type of dogs. I can understand crate training a lap dog and why people would use a crate for these dogs. I usually talk about real dogs.
If your dog is a nusiance and bothers the neighbors, a little training is needed. Spend time with your dog and do a little training and they will not be a nusiance. Putting a dog in a crate is the lazy way out. It is a lot easier to put a dog in a crate than to spend time and effort to train the dog.
Dogs can be trained to do just about anything their masters want them to do. They can even be trained to go into a crate and stay there. Why is it so hard to understand if the dog can learn to go to a crate and stay why can't a dog be trained to go to a chain and stay there. Many people think chaining a dog is cruel. Many people think crating a dog is cruel.
One thing that some people do not understand and I have not mentioned enough. I am not talking about the small lap dog. I keep forgetting many people have them as I see them as a nusiance. I can understand a person who has such a dog would not know anything about chaining a dog.
Lap dogs and real dogs are completely different things. They cannot be treated the same. If you own a lap dog you should never chain the dog outside. If you have to worry about some bird or wild animal killing your dog you should not chain it out. I keep forgetting about these type of dogs. I can understand crate training a lap dog and why people would use a crate for these dogs. I usually talk about real dogs.
Let me elaborate. After someone cut through a padlock to my parent's privacy fence & stole one of my dogs who was loose at the time all while I was in the shower at 7:30 in the morning, I kept all dogs in crates when I wasn't home & at night. Despite lots of exercise & outside time when I was home, the dogs were going stir crazy. I had several destroy $200 crates & I came home one day to our OEB who had his head stuck through 2 wires in the door of a crate that he had chewed & bent. We're lucky he's alive. Not to mention the damage done to the rooms when a dog broke out of a kennel.
After becoming a pregnant & being forced on bedrest from 3 1/2 months on, I started chaining my dogs up outside. Mind you we have an 8 ft. privacy fence with an electric fence (powered by a cattle/horse charger) & a concrete trench dug around the entire bottom of the fence perameter. Since then I can't get the dogs to want to come inside during the day. They are in their kennels at night but around 5 or 6 am I put them outside & they stay out until about 10 pm. They seem to thoroughly enjoy basking in the sun, or chewing on a beef knuckle in the grass compared to being in a kennel in a dark room. Despite the fact that they are inhumanely limited in their distance they can travel from the doghouse. In bad weather we will bring them in, however even then we've got a couple that would rather be holed up in their doghouse than come inside. Hell, 2 will lie out in the rain & just look around like nothing's going on.
Every method of containment can be misused & cause abuse and/or neglect to an animal. Crating can be abused & animals can most definitely be neglected because there were/are times where the dogs are in their kennels in another part of the house & I don't see them or hear them so out of sight, out of mind. Even dogs left loose to roam the house can be neglected. How many cases has everyone seen on animal planet where the 'beloved" housepet is emaciated & is a walking mat? And of course chaining can be abused. But just because a dog is on a chain doesn't automatically mean that the owner stops exercising the dog, playing with the dog, feeding the dog, watering the dog, etc. That kind of thinking is beyond ignorant.
After becoming a pregnant & being forced on bedrest from 3 1/2 months on, I started chaining my dogs up outside. Mind you we have an 8 ft. privacy fence with an electric fence (powered by a cattle/horse charger) & a concrete trench dug around the entire bottom of the fence perameter. Since then I can't get the dogs to want to come inside during the day. They are in their kennels at night but around 5 or 6 am I put them outside & they stay out until about 10 pm. They seem to thoroughly enjoy basking in the sun, or chewing on a beef knuckle in the grass compared to being in a kennel in a dark room. Despite the fact that they are inhumanely limited in their distance they can travel from the doghouse. In bad weather we will bring them in, however even then we've got a couple that would rather be holed up in their doghouse than come inside. Hell, 2 will lie out in the rain & just look around like nothing's going on.
Every method of containment can be misused & cause abuse and/or neglect to an animal. Crating can be abused & animals can most definitely be neglected because there were/are times where the dogs are in their kennels in another part of the house & I don't see them or hear them so out of sight, out of mind. Even dogs left loose to roam the house can be neglected. How many cases has everyone seen on animal planet where the 'beloved" housepet is emaciated & is a walking mat? And of course chaining can be abused. But just because a dog is on a chain doesn't automatically mean that the owner stops exercising the dog, playing with the dog, feeding the dog, watering the dog, etc. That kind of thinking is beyond ignorant.
As was previously posted these things can happen in a crate? 
attack someoneI'm sure it's not unheard of that a child poked his fingers into a dog's crate & that dog didn't take to kindly to it
be poisoned
Become entangled in the chain and break a legHow about injuring a leg/paw when the dog decided to break out of the kennel & got stuck.
be stolenI personally know of 3 people who have had dogs stolen out of crates right out their home
pose a nuisance to the neighborsEver live in an apartment with no sound barrier in the walls? Nothing like hearing the neighbor's crated dog barking for hours on end.
be exposed to the elements
bark excessively due to boredom or stimulation by outside activityMANY crated dogs bark out of boredom........all day long.
be attacked by another animal/stung or bitten by insects
be teased/have rocks thrown at/be shot at with BB's by neighborhood kids
Injure her neck by lunging or pulling on the chainWhat about injure the neck & leg because the dog tried to break out of the crate & got stuck?
Break the chain and run free
attack someoneI'm sure it's not unheard of that a child poked his fingers into a dog's crate & that dog didn't take to kindly to it
be poisoned
Become entangled in the chain and break a legHow about injuring a leg/paw when the dog decided to break out of the kennel & got stuck.
be stolenI personally know of 3 people who have had dogs stolen out of crates right out their home
pose a nuisance to the neighborsEver live in an apartment with no sound barrier in the walls? Nothing like hearing the neighbor's crated dog barking for hours on end.
be exposed to the elements
bark excessively due to boredom or stimulation by outside activityMANY crated dogs bark out of boredom........all day long.
be attacked by another animal/stung or bitten by insects
be teased/have rocks thrown at/be shot at with BB's by neighborhood kids
Injure her neck by lunging or pulling on the chainWhat about injure the neck & leg because the dog tried to break out of the crate & got stuck?
Break the chain and run free
I understand that. But what I'm wondering if would people be oh so happy if they put a ban on crating?
I KNOW there are peopel on this board that are working owners & crate their dogs for more than 5-6 hours a day......probably more like 8-10. This would totally destroy their lives & make them unable to have more than one pet.
And as for someone who said something about how a person couldn't own more than 2 'aggressive' dogs--does this mean a dog that has a record of attacks or just a certain breed deemed aggressive by an ignorant moran in a high powered position in the government?
I KNOW there are peopel on this board that are working owners & crate their dogs for more than 5-6 hours a day......probably more like 8-10. This would totally destroy their lives & make them unable to have more than one pet.
And as for someone who said something about how a person couldn't own more than 2 'aggressive' dogs--does this mean a dog that has a record of attacks or just a certain breed deemed aggressive by an ignorant moran in a high powered position in the government?
Mia, as for the things you've described, they are certainly possible but . . .
How many children break into someone's house and stick their fingers in a dog's cage? Compare this to how many neighborhood kids might walk by and think the doggy on the chain is friendly . . .
How many people are going to break into someone's house to steal a dog, when the next door neighbor has a dog of the same breed outside on a chain? Being out in the open makes the dog a target.
There are risks to dogs wherever you look, but keeping a dog outside unattended and tethered is, to me, dangerous. Moreso than keeping a dog inside in a crate. But maybe I'm paranoid - I have small dogs and I don't want anything to happen to them.
I disagree with this new law (just because it's.. well.. another rule) but it doesn't mean I condone chaining a dog for long periods of time - just as I don't condone crating all day, either.
How many children break into someone's house and stick their fingers in a dog's cage? Compare this to how many neighborhood kids might walk by and think the doggy on the chain is friendly . . .
How many people are going to break into someone's house to steal a dog, when the next door neighbor has a dog of the same breed outside on a chain? Being out in the open makes the dog a target.
There are risks to dogs wherever you look, but keeping a dog outside unattended and tethered is, to me, dangerous. Moreso than keeping a dog inside in a crate. But maybe I'm paranoid - I have small dogs and I don't want anything to happen to them.
I disagree with this new law (just because it's.. well.. another rule) but it doesn't mean I condone chaining a dog for long periods of time - just as I don't condone crating all day, either.
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Again assuming.
My dog is a giant breed. Therefore, automatically a nuisance to many people just because of her size. I get hateful looks, rediculous comments, etc from people who are not fond of giant breeds. If she were outside on a chain, outside, she would be viewed as a nuisance simply because of people thinking "WHAT IF" that dog got loose. At least inside my home, she is safely contained, and the neighbors don't have to worry about it.
Pancho, I don't have a "lap dog" as you like to say, but your comment regarding them not being "real dogs" really was ignorant and inconsiderate at best.
Why should "lap dogs" be crateable and not "real dogs?"
My dog is a giant breed. Therefore, automatically a nuisance to many people just because of her size. I get hateful looks, rediculous comments, etc from people who are not fond of giant breeds. If she were outside on a chain, outside, she would be viewed as a nuisance simply because of people thinking "WHAT IF" that dog got loose. At least inside my home, she is safely contained, and the neighbors don't have to worry about it.
Pancho, I don't have a "lap dog" as you like to say, but your comment regarding them not being "real dogs" really was ignorant and inconsiderate at best.
Why should "lap dogs" be crateable and not "real dogs?"
That is just my opinion and one shared by many who have raised the pit bull. People who have raised the pit bull for many years think there are only three kinds of dogs. You either own a game dog or a cur dog or a lap dog. There is only one game dog and the rest are either cur dogs or lap dogs. If you have every been around any of the old time dog breeders you will not hear a breed name, if they are describing a dog they say it is a dog-meaning a pit bull, or they say it is a cur-meaning another breed of dog, or they will say it is a lapdog-meaning a small companion dog. It is just something they did for many years and many still talk the same. We do not consider it a deragoratory term, we are just describing the dog so the person they are talking to will know which dogs they are talking about.
People who raise lap dogs and cur dogs tend to have a different out look where dogs are conserned. Nothing bad about them , they are just not for me. We consider them much like we do a cat. The people who have lap dogs and cur dogs raise their dogs different, train their dogs different, feed their dogs different, and contain their dogs different.
Real dogs have a tendency to tear out of crates. Wire crates are definately something a dog man would not even own. Dogs have been known to tear through doors and even walls of a house. Many dogs will go through a chain link fence, not over just straight through, faster than you can open a gate and go through. A crate is only used when transporting a dog. A chain is dependable. If inspected daily as they should be they will hold a dog. Crating a pit bull is asking for problems. Too much chance of them escaping. That is why a lap dog or cur dog is crateable and a dog isn't. Just too much chance on it escaping. When the owners are forced to find another way to contain their dogs there will be even more escaping. The chains have worked for a hundred years at least. They are the best way to contain a dog, not the best for a lap dog or a cur dog, a crate will hold them.
Maybe I should have explained before when I was talking about the use of chains compared to crates I was talking about a pit bull.
I own a cur dog, a border collie, but when I am talking to another dog person and they ask about my dog I say I own a cur dog. I care for my dog very much. The people I talk to know this and some of them also own cur dogs. We are not saying anything bad about the dogs, just describing them so the other person will know what we are talking about.
When a person has been taught about dogs when they are a baby and hear the same language for 55 or more years they tend to talk the same way.
Again it is not a degratory term, lap dog or cur dog, it is just a descriptive term.
People who raise lap dogs and cur dogs tend to have a different out look where dogs are conserned. Nothing bad about them , they are just not for me. We consider them much like we do a cat. The people who have lap dogs and cur dogs raise their dogs different, train their dogs different, feed their dogs different, and contain their dogs different.
Real dogs have a tendency to tear out of crates. Wire crates are definately something a dog man would not even own. Dogs have been known to tear through doors and even walls of a house. Many dogs will go through a chain link fence, not over just straight through, faster than you can open a gate and go through. A crate is only used when transporting a dog. A chain is dependable. If inspected daily as they should be they will hold a dog. Crating a pit bull is asking for problems. Too much chance of them escaping. That is why a lap dog or cur dog is crateable and a dog isn't. Just too much chance on it escaping. When the owners are forced to find another way to contain their dogs there will be even more escaping. The chains have worked for a hundred years at least. They are the best way to contain a dog, not the best for a lap dog or a cur dog, a crate will hold them.
Maybe I should have explained before when I was talking about the use of chains compared to crates I was talking about a pit bull.
I own a cur dog, a border collie, but when I am talking to another dog person and they ask about my dog I say I own a cur dog. I care for my dog very much. The people I talk to know this and some of them also own cur dogs. We are not saying anything bad about the dogs, just describing them so the other person will know what we are talking about.
When a person has been taught about dogs when they are a baby and hear the same language for 55 or more years they tend to talk the same way.
Again it is not a degratory term, lap dog or cur dog, it is just a descriptive term.
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Thats my dogs right there. They chew through chain link, break through privacy fences, climb, and dig. If I were to have my dogs loose in a kennel, they would probably need 2 layers of fence, atleast 12 foot high, with wire buried atleast 2 foot down. And with cement perferably around the bottom. And I dont want to think of what would happen if I took some of them on a run and left some behind. I would come back to a disaster.
OTOH, I can buy the right size of chain, good quicklinks, and a good qaulity snap (swedish snaps, one of the best), and have it last for atleast 4 years.
Plus, its cheaper. Compleate stake out for a dog is around $75 including the house. For a kennel, it would be around $150. And they get a bigger space on the chain then what they would in a kennel!!
OTOH, I can buy the right size of chain, good quicklinks, and a good qaulity snap (swedish snaps, one of the best), and have it last for atleast 4 years.
Plus, its cheaper. Compleate stake out for a dog is around $75 including the house. For a kennel, it would be around $150. And they get a bigger space on the chain then what they would in a kennel!!
How on earth can a dog chew through chain link?
As for pancho, I really wish you'd quit speaking on behalf of all us APBT owners. Your statements of "we only believe in one kind of dog & all the other kinds of uselss curs" & blah blah blah are getting on my nerves. Not to mention they are completely unfounded, I don't ever remember electing you as our "captain" to speak for us. And for the record: I'm friends with 1 very well known APBT owner who no longer has any dogs, but when he did he also owned dogs of other breeds (like Patterdale Terriers). So I guess he wasn't a "real dogman" huh?
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How on earth can a dog chew through chain link?
Also what is a real dog to you Pancho? Of all the dogs I ever had NOT ONE ever tried to tear out of a crate or even spent his hours barking to no end. I know this because I would ask my neighbors if my dogs were bothering them with barking, most didn't even know I had dogs. However I had several that actually broke their tie lines...or pulled the anchor out of the ground and ended up getting out of the fenced yard.
I do not speak for all pit bull owners. I was speaking on behalf of the old time pit bull breeders. I definately am not a speaker for the modern day pit bull owner and breeder. The opposite is more likely. The old time breeders were not responsible for the recent dog bans, they are not responsible for the recent pit bull attacks.
I consider you to be one of the more modern day owners. I don't even know if you breed your dogs.
The patterdale is not a very old breed. I remember when they were developed, that is very recently. They, much like the american bulldog, are a breed made up and developed in recent years.
Many of the old time pit bull breeders owned other cur dogs. Many were also owners and breeders of other breeds of dogs.
I did not ask you for permission to post, As far as I know that is not necessary.
When most of the pit bulls were owned by the old time breeders there was not a problem with pit bull attacks. This is also a recent development.
Before I was 30 years old I do not know a single pit bull attack, much less a death. There was plenty of pit bulls but there wasn't any attacks.
The attacks began when the breed began to be owned as a pet by many people who had no idea about the history or traits of the breed. The old time breeders did not use the dog as a status symbol, they did not use the dog as a weapon, they mostly did not use the dog for protection, the pounds were not all filled with pit bulls and pit bull crosses. There was very few shelters as they were not needed, they also are a recent development. I never knew there was such a thing as a shelter until I was a grown man. This is all recent developments.
Back in those days the pit bull was very much respected, parents were not afraid to leave their children to play with their pit bull. Many times the family pit bull was the babysetter. Families would allow their children to play with the neighbors pit bull without fear. Back then there was even free running pit bulls, they caused no problems what so ever. There has been many champion fighting dogs allowed to run free.
Before the time I learned to walk I would crawl over to my mother's dog, Butch, a very nice pit bull. He was allowed to run free along with my fathers favorite black and tan hound. Neither dog ever even growled at a child even with the abuse a young child could pile on them. Both dogs were allowed free run all over the farm with all types of farm animals.
There was not very many stray dogs back then. Sometimes a lost hunting dog would show up for a few days until the owner found them or they rested up for the journey home.
These are the people I am refering to when I use the word "we".
Sorry for the confusion.
I consider you to be one of the more modern day owners. I don't even know if you breed your dogs.
The patterdale is not a very old breed. I remember when they were developed, that is very recently. They, much like the american bulldog, are a breed made up and developed in recent years.
Many of the old time pit bull breeders owned other cur dogs. Many were also owners and breeders of other breeds of dogs.
I did not ask you for permission to post, As far as I know that is not necessary.
When most of the pit bulls were owned by the old time breeders there was not a problem with pit bull attacks. This is also a recent development.
Before I was 30 years old I do not know a single pit bull attack, much less a death. There was plenty of pit bulls but there wasn't any attacks.
The attacks began when the breed began to be owned as a pet by many people who had no idea about the history or traits of the breed. The old time breeders did not use the dog as a status symbol, they did not use the dog as a weapon, they mostly did not use the dog for protection, the pounds were not all filled with pit bulls and pit bull crosses. There was very few shelters as they were not needed, they also are a recent development. I never knew there was such a thing as a shelter until I was a grown man. This is all recent developments.
Back in those days the pit bull was very much respected, parents were not afraid to leave their children to play with their pit bull. Many times the family pit bull was the babysetter. Families would allow their children to play with the neighbors pit bull without fear. Back then there was even free running pit bulls, they caused no problems what so ever. There has been many champion fighting dogs allowed to run free.
Before the time I learned to walk I would crawl over to my mother's dog, Butch, a very nice pit bull. He was allowed to run free along with my fathers favorite black and tan hound. Neither dog ever even growled at a child even with the abuse a young child could pile on them. Both dogs were allowed free run all over the farm with all types of farm animals.
There was not very many stray dogs back then. Sometimes a lost hunting dog would show up for a few days until the owner found them or they rested up for the journey home.
These are the people I am refering to when I use the word "we".
Sorry for the confusion.