Need advice about bruno (aggression)

[RD]

Hedwig, you know I've been pulling for a successful outcome to you and Bruno's issues here but it looks to me like you're looking to validate your reasons for doing what I think you'll ultimately do - turn him over to a shelter or have him PTS.

Frankly I think you should give it your best shot with him. For just a while, stop considering rehoming as an option. Don't work with him like it's temporary, work with him like you're going to have to live with this dog for 10 years or more. You'll notice a change in your approach.

If you want a little bit of advice... You need to get OFF the "dominance" theory and the "be the pack leader" crap NOW. This is bullying, plain and simple. It's not helping this dog, just making him feel more tense around strangers. If I were you I'd work on some desensitization, not flooding. Don't force him to suppress his reactions to strangers, that'll just make problems worse. You want him to stop reacting because he's no longer afraid, not because he's afraid of being punished for it.

Look for some books, if you can - Click to Calm by Emma Parsons; Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt; The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell... Any of Karen Pryor's clicker training books, Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson... Just read up on how to effectively communicate with a dog without the faulty dominance theory interfering with your thinking.

I really do think you can help Bruno and at the very least make him adoptable. If you don't feel you are able to do this, then personally I would spare him a life of fear and humanely let him go.

 

[hedwig]

Hi been a while since i been ere aint it? :hail: missed it lol.

Right dunno if anyone new but i tried to rehome bruno, i put it in the notices and told potential owners that he was nervous aggressive and that they must have experience with this type of behavoir, willing to train him and socialise him etc and gave them pointers on how to deal with it aswell. and he is a dominate dog so i told them you gotta be strict with him.

A family with 4 kids oldest was 6(bruno adores kids, i had no fears over this) came forward anyway, assuring me of the above and that they could handle him, so he went to them for around 3 weeks and on thursday night i got several texts from her.

One saying that i was ignored her texts and rings for a week when i heard nothing from her at all, and she said if i didnt take him back tonight she would take him to the rspca.

Anyway i took him back the same night,aparently he was going for strangers n the home, even though he doesnt do it if you correct him, which she obvoisly didnt. and apparently attacked her cat but he is ok with cats. and she informed me she hadnt taken him to the vets like she toldme, and she had made an apointment on monday at the vets and she already paid half the fee. i phoned vets and the appointment didnt exist.i dont believe a word that comes from her mouth.

i just managed to get rid of an ear infection when he left and gave them some stuff just in case it came back and when he came back he had it full force.

He is disobedient and is challenging my leadership. and im having trouble putting him in his place.

Have you any pointers in taking pack leader? are there any lil signs im missing that i can iron out, assuring him im the boss?
what shall i look for?

He is constantly trying to push me out the way to walk in front on the lead, ignores commands to stop even though he noes the command. jumps up which he never did, tries to go through the doors first etc. ignores commands etc.

I no he i a dominant dog because of the way e acts with new people he gets on with, licks their hands, puts his legs over their arms to hold them still, growls and barks at people he doesnt no and wont let them in, or move unless i tell him off.

Is their anyway i can correct this behavoiur????

And another treat to this mess is my mum didnt want him back so by summer, around three monthes we have to leave. i have been trying to find a job, but their aint any so i can get a home, but nobody ere allows dog.

Im well and truely stuck. i have a dog that i cant rehome for safety reasons, a dominant/nervous aggressive dog that will likely bit a stranger as soon as you turn your back when your stood next to them and i got no idea what to do.

And i have to make a confession, im becoming nervous of him and thats not helping, and my nervous energy is making him nervous in those situations, so in a way im causing more harm to him then good in the long run.

yes a trainer will help with his problems or might but what about me? i will still be uneasy around him.

I am nervous anyway, esp when im workin on my own, i scare myself sh**less. i no i have mental issues as i myself came from a abusive background, we are not very well matched and i cant see a way out.

Is there anyone out their who can help? even take him in? because if he aint gone in three monthes then i affraid it will come to being pts, as i dont think i can find a place that fast on my wages, hell i been tryin for the year.

i just need help i tried dogs trust but they got a years waiting list, and other kennels refuse to take him, rspca will just kill him

 

[RD]

Hedwig, he just hasn't had any boundaries in this home. He's not being dominant over you because he tries to walk out the door first, he's just trying to get outside first because he wants to be outside and hasn't been taught to wait his turn.

As for the biting, I hate to say it, but I would not rehome a dog that bites unless it was with someone who was very well aware of his issues and prepared to deal with them with the help of a professional.

I'm sorry to sound like a downer, but unless you can get his aggression issues under control, I wouldn't consider him adoptable.

 

[Herschel]

He is constantly trying to push me out the way to walk in front on the lead, ignores commands to stop even though he noes the command. jumps up which he never did, tries to go through the doors first etc. ignores commands etc.

He walks in front of you because he never learned to walk next to you.
He ignores commands because he never learned them.
He jumps because he never learned not to jump.
He goes through doors first because he never learned to wait.

I no he i a dominant dog because of the way e acts with new people he gets on with, licks their hands, puts his legs over their arms to hold them still, growls and barks at people he doesnt no and wont let them in, or move unless i tell him off.

He licks their hands because he is unsure of him self.
He puts his legs over their arms because he doesn't know it isn't polite.
He growls and barks at people he doesn't know because he's scared.

What you consider dominant/nervous, I consider scared/confused. He doesn't need to be corrected or yelled at, he needs a steady and confident leader. He might seem "stubborn" to you, but have you taken the time to teach him?

He doesn't need another home. He needs stability.

 

[hedwig]

I got him for a private home when living with my boyfriend, i really wanted a 6 week old puppy to start with to raise myself but decided we should get a private instead of from a breeder, and she told me he was a lovely layed back dog and thats what we got.

there was too of us, me and my ex boyfriend so i thought we could handle it but we split up monthes after, i moved to my mums house, he only has my bedroom and garden as my mum doesnt want him in the rest of house (im on ground floor)

I dont think its fare on him to live this way, also i have just started talking to my dad again so i have been going to notts to stay over and have to drag poor bruno with me.

so he is a dominant dog who needs a strong pack leader and is nervous aggressive of strangers, he will snap at them if you so much as turn around if you not careful.
he is an either i like you or i dont dog who you gotta let come to you.

 

[hedwig]

You seem to missunderstand me. he was very well trained and polite when he went, and i gave him the command back on a start of a walk and we walked behind me the whole way. now he pushing me out the way to get in front.

 

[Dekka]

Doesn't sound dominant to me, and where he walks has everything to do with training and NOTHING to do with dominance. LOL my alpha dog does not walk through door first with the other dogs.. Those ideas were thought up by creative humans.

So it sounds like she just didn't maintain the criteria of walking behind. Personally I would hate to walk a dog that behind me.

 

[hedwig]

well the couple who took him told me they would do all you just said but they just turned out to be time wasters and destroyed his training.

i have already said he is unrehomable have i not

 

[hedwig]

I not experienced enough to deal with this situation, im a first time dog owner, who was cheated into taking him!

And when people come in and he growls and barks and wont let him in, i go shhhh and put myself in front of him and walk him backwards, and when he is quiet i say good boy and praise him when he quiet, if he growls or goes to snap, i repeat the above, i sometimes put a muzzle on him if we have alot of people over and he went to sleep last time, he goes around sniffing people and again he likes you or he doesnt, if he doesnt then he will try to stop you from moving around the kitchen

 

[Buddy'sParents]

OK, well, I'm going to come out and say it...

You've been talking about Bruno's issues for a LONG time. Since you joined, actually. Wanted to get rid of him before his aggression issues. I don't even recall how many times we've heard the whole "re-homing Bruno", "Bruno's aggressive", "how do I get rid of Bruno" stories.

And now you have conceded that he is not "rehomeable" so what are you going to do now? You've had all of this time to help him and he's gotten worse. To the point where he can't be successful in another person's home and you can't afford to keep him.. so you tell us what your options are?

 

[hedwig]

Actually he never was rehomable, it took me a try to find that out.

And he was fantastic with me and my family before because i TRAINED him, then he went away for 3 WEEKS and i have to start from square one!

yes i asked for help and advice before with his aggression with strangers, and i again said before i didnt have the money for a behavourist.

Its been an on going thing, so yeah i wanted to rehome to someone that could ok! i have since i split up, im not ideal for him and wanted a new home for him! one because of training and two beacuse of living conditions we live in!.

Im not trying to dress it up! im no closer to finding out how to sort this out then i was then because in case your noticing, somebody has yet to give ADVICE! ALL YOUR DOING IS FLAMING ME FOR SOMETHING THATS NOT IN MY HANDS!

Tell me FRIEND if i had a 5 strangers coming over for a cup of tea, they all stay in the kitchen standing to drink and talk and bruno is here with them, how do i go about preventing him from snapping, growling and barking and not letting them move around.

I have been trying the best i can! i am not saying its not my fault because it mostly is but have you forgotten about that bi*** WHO GAVE HIM TO ME ANYWAY and lied to me about him, then didnt let me bring him back.

Pt your money where your mouth is and give advice if you want, at least im trying, at the moment thats all i can do!

 

[hedwig]

I will never ever give bruno to a shelter, he will be their all his life because nobody will want him and the only time he will be pts is if he attacks someone and i cant find a medical problem or a serious reason for it! dont asume i will, i will be on the street before i have him put down. (may be an option yet) lol

And i had a make shrift trainer cme round ere and tell me e a dominant so geuss i shouldnttake his word for it. He is deff dominant with other dogs.

That is one thing i can tell from living with a pack for nearly three years.

 

[Storee's Mom]

Is he crate trained? If so, crate him when you have company, ideally in the bedroom with the door closed. Not the perfect solution, but at least the guests are safe and he's not able to bite anyone.

Find an obedience training club in you area and call them, explain your situation and ask for help. Not to flame you, but it's hard for me to imagine that he was fine with you, went away for three weeks and is now 'back at square one'. I work in a boarding kennel, and we have dogs in that listen to us better than their owners, even if they've been home for a month or two - they walk in the door, know the rules and routine and are fine, even if they are unruly with their owners. Or at the most, need half a day of reminding (thinks like not barking the whole time, manners with the gates...).

Above all, think of what's best for the dog - if you can manage the situation and give him a good life, then great. If you can't, then what?

Lana

 

[hedwig]

i havent got a then what, what would you suggest i do?

And he 9/10 did as he was told when with me before. he i started to settle again now and we are making good progress. walking better on lead and listening more.

But with strangers have to start again because she just let him get away with it all

 

[Buddy'sParents]

People have given you advice time and time again, if you don't have a crate, BUY one. You have this whole forum at your disposal, do some searching about his issues, you're not the only one to have a problematic dog to walk the earth.

I suggest professional advice, again, and I'm sure it won't happen, again, because you don't have the proper means. This is understandable, but enough is enough and you need to save him NOW.

If he's been such a fantastic dog all along, I doubt we would have had the numerous, "rehoming bruno, adopt my dog! help with bruno's issues" threads. So, at least spare us and be truthful.

So here is my advice, although I think RD gave some stellar advice, start back at square one with all of his training... with a professional.

 

[hedwig]

Im not asking your advice bp. please dont post again

 

[Dekka]

Well that is just it.. you ask for our advice. And then you don't take it (which is fine) But then you complain things aren't working. Trust me, correcting him won't work, it will only make him sure that new humans are bad (cause every time the new humans come over you become 'mean', therefore he will associate new humans with unpleasant things) But he is your dog and you can do what you want.

If you aren't willing to try to look at it from the dog's point of view, instead of what you think the dog's view should be, then I am afraid this will not have a happy ending.

 

[Zoom]

Hedwig, I hate to say this because like RD, I've followed you and Bruno's adventures together and have hoped that they could work out. However, the situation seems to have boiled down to two things. He's too much dog for you to handle on your own and he's unadoptable because he bites.

That doesn't leave too many options.

I am about the last person to ever recommend this, but if an owner is unwilling or unable, for whatever reason, to follow sound advice, then for the safety of those around him and just for the mental peace of the dog himself, PTS might be the next (and/or only) route. It's hard to think of, I know. But Bruno is not a stable dog and is unlikely to change.

 

[hedwig]

Again i ask, what shall i do then, you tell me not to do what im doing but not anymore instruction then that. Its all fine get a crate and put him in it, but thats not solving it either is it, just sweepin it under the carpet so to speak.

Ok i going off course now but i am thinking of getting him a doggy backpack! so he can carry shopping with me from shop, only bits and bobs, but it will give him something to do and raise his confidence and feel usefull etc. plus it helps me lol!

I am taking him to the vets tomorrow for injections, and will ask for full check up and blood tests to see if their anything underlining. in january their was a dog training season up the street in town hall, i found the number but it says they away, so i keep going when they are supposed to be on to see if they open etc but found nothing yet.

And i recently rang a aggressive dog trainer, even though bruno is a nervous aggressive i rang him anyway. because he so far away and is likely to cost a monthes wages i suggested i go to his for two weeks or so to see what he can do and train him as a security dog to give him something to focus on. And in return i work in his kennels to pay in return.

I dunno if he will accept yet and i am currently searching other schools in my area that can do home visits. but with getting him tested at vets it will wait a month or so till i can get him in. (not cheap)

And i also mentioned i was taking him to my dads every 2-3 weeks on visits for weekends. he has a dog who he can play with.

And i think i can turn this to my advantage in a way, by walking him in town center, he seemed ok last time we went. And with people always coming and going at his home (strangers) it will help socialise him.

BUT i need to no what to do in that situation! because i dont no.

At the moment im shhhh him away bfrom the door when they come in, even when my dad and family come in i do this to move him away to give them room. and tell him to lie down while everyone has tea, and if he wants let him sniff them. when he quiet and sniffing people, i praise with voice and treats, when he growls and barks, i move him away with a shhhhh.

tell me how i can correct him, with out correcting him so to speak.

You lot are so fast to judge

 

[hedwig]

And im in a better position to act now, because i no alot more then i did then from GATHERING ADVICE and putting it in practise, i was on benefits before and im now working part time!

im now seeing my dad (if you count this as good) so he getting more interaction with people and new people. and dogs.

you forget, over the monthes bruno has steadily been getting better, so pts is not an option because it can be cured in my opinion. advice given takes time to put into practise and proggress can be slow if your new and unsure.

yes i have repeatedly asked for help for training, but can that be really be a bad thing? at least im asking. he really aint that bad but i ask JUST IN CASE I MISS SOMETHING and i want to rehome him and have done for monthes because he deserves more space, MONEY and a family, which i cant offer him.

I cant rehome him as he is no of course not, just look at the last mess. But at least he is happy! thats what matters.