How to teach "go to a certain spot"

[Kmh1]

I was hoping someone could help me with step by step instructions for sending a dog away from you. I seem to have a mental block about how to teach this and don't want to confuse my dog. I guess I would like to start with sending him to a certain spot in the room and then maybe progress to sending him over a small jump or something like that.
Just a little background--Zippy is a 3 year old Manchester . He is tremendously food motivated and trainable. Even with my lack of training experience --in a minimal to average distractions training situation--(like in the living room LOL!) He has a very reliable and attentive sit, down, stay, come, sit front, and I was even able to teach him to "finish" where he walks behind me and then sits at my side. I taught him the finish by gently guiding him behind me and into position until he made the connection and he got jackpot treated when he did it on his own. He can also shake both paws and speak on command. I make him sit and wait for his food and I guess the longest I've made him wait so far is a little over a minute--I can also leave his sight while we do this.
I know he is capable of learning so much more but I'm struggling with what to teach next and how (of course I know I need to continue to work on all the other things with increased distractions too). Like I said I would like to learn how to send him away from me for commands--- he is a very attentive velcro boy and doesn't seem the least bit inclined to go "away" from me to do stuff LOL!--sorry this is so long but if anyone has a chance to give me a few ideas, that would be great. Thanks!

 

[Doberluv]

I would take a little rug or mat and place it on the living room floor. Take Zippy over to it, have him lie down on it, click/treat. (if you're using a clicker) Or you can use a marker word once he gives you the desired behavior....then reinforce. Do you need a verbal cue to lie down? Or just a hand signal? It may be confusing to him to hear "down" and then your cue for going away. But you do want to tie the behavior with your new cue. Add a cue once he's getting the idea to lie down on the rug. So, just before he's about to lie down, tell him, "out" or "away" (or whatever cue you want to use) Click/treat.

Now, you're standing right next to him, cuing him. Walk him around the room to start a new rep and repeat a few times. When it's coming easily to him, try it with him standing a little further away from his rug. Vary the angle that you're standing in relationship to him. Very gradually increase the distance that he is from his rug. Little by little have him further away. If he fails, go back to where it was easy for him and work back up. You can also help him by showing him the rug again.

Do this free of distractions at first and then you can add those too....gradually. Over time, (take your time, don't rush) you can even get him to go away when you're in another room. But that's pretty advanced, so work the simpler stuff first for quite some time until it's very solid.

Use the rug for a while. Then try without. (in case you're ever someplace where you don't have a rug.) See what he does. He might just find another comfortable spot to go to. Reinforce. Don't forget to reinforce him every time for a while...till he's really good at it. Then you can go to a variable reinforcement schedule where it's somewhat random, but not completely.....you don't want him to completely give up. You can reinforce the best "aways" ...the most prompt or whatever. And don't reinforce the sloppy ones. But that's for later. When he's learning, reinforce every time. And remember, if he fails, you've probably moved to too great a distance from him too soon. Go back a few steps to where he was successful and work your way back up.

What you'll want to do so that he "gets it" ...the difference between lie down and "away" is: once he's pretty good at "away," bounce back and forth between "away" and "down." If you're usually standing right next to him for "down," like if you're heeling and you want him to stop and down, keep practicing that, using the cue, "down."

You also may not even want him to necessarily lie down when he goes away so if that's the case, you don't need to have him lie down on the rug every time once he's gotten onto it well. He can sit one time, stand one time or down. Mix it up. But do that later. He needs to make the distinction between simply lying down and moving away from you or away from a particular room or area.

You can also capture opportunities to reinforce when he, on his own accord happens to be walking out of your area. Throw in your cue, "away" and click/treat. Toss the treat to him so you don't have to always be right next to him in order for him to get the treat.

You can also achieve this by shaping...simply clicking and treating for tiny increments of the behavior. If he takes a step away from you, click/treat. When he takes two steps away, click/treat etc. Add in your cue once he's getting onto the game. Raise your critera as he gets it and don't reinforce for one step. Only reinforce for 2 or 3. Then when he's getting 2 or 3 reliably, raise your criteria again.

 

[corgipower]

Are you looking to send him to a "place" (like a mat) where he can just go lie down on it? Or are you trying to teach him a send out as is done in obedience trials?

 

[Kmh1]

Thanks Carrie--I'm definitely going to give it a try---I just have trouble with the timing of it--like you mentioned in the post--I just can't figure out how to get him to distinguish the "down" or the "stay" from "go to" a certain place.

corgipower---I would eventually like him to know both, but want to start with whatever is easiest for me and for him---anything that will get him performing a command that requires him to move away from me. Thanks again for any suggestions and I will try to update the thread with what we are trying and how it is working.

 

[corgipower]

To teach a "place" ~

I find it's easier to use a raised surface -- it's more obvious to the dog that there's a boundary, but if you don't have that, a mat will work.

Start by walking towards it with the dog and as you get close, toss a treat onto the place. Let him go get the treat. Repeat a few times. Very soon he should start going there looking for a treat. Then stop tossing the treats on there ahead of him and start rewarding him when he is on his place. Don't worry yet about having him stay on it, but try to get a release word given before he gets off it.

Now start adding a cue (I use "place") as he's heading for his place. I usually wait until they understand the cue before I add a stay. There are a few ways you can teach them to stay on the place. One way is similar to teaching them any other stay -- stay near them and gradually build duration and then distance, always using a release word before letting them off it and if they do break, use a NRM and put them back. Some dogs get that, some don't. For the ones who don't, I use a sit or a down on the place to have them stay on there. I usually start with a sit, and then when they are doing that well I go to a down or I vary which one it will be and eventually I drop the secondary command. For my dogs, when they are on a place, they are allowed to sit, down, stand, walk on it, whatever...they just aren't allowed to get off it.

Next, I start sending the dog from further away, then from angles, then with the place behind him. When the dog is doing that, I start varying the place. I move it to different locations, I use different things -- a mat, a dog bed, a towel, a chair. If you go visit people with your dog, you can take a mat with you for his place, you can have multiple places set up in the house -- maybe one in the living room and one in the bedroom.

 

[corgipower]

For the formal obedience send out, you can teach this with or without the dog knowing a place. While it's still sending the dog away, it's different enough that I haven't seen dogs really relating the two exercises. The elements of the utility send out are:

The dog starts out sitting at heel.
The dog leaves you and goes (briskly) in a straight line to the opposite end of the ring.
On your command, the dog turns and sits.

Find a target -- something easily visible (you can buy a target stick or you can make do with an obvious object). Walking with the dog, walk up to the target and drop a toy in front of the target. Walk away -- preferably with the dog heeling -- a few steps (3 or 4). Turn to face the target and let the dog go get his toy. Continue using the same target, in the same location, sending the dog in the same direction and gradually add some distance, always walking up with the dog first and putting his toy in front of the target. Build up the distance slowly enough that you don't lose the straight line and start using a cue (I use "run").

When the dog has can handle some distance, place the toy in front of the target, walk the dog away but not as far away as you've been going, turn to face the target and have your dog sit at heel before sending him. Don't get so caught up in the sit that he loses interest or focus on the target, use the send away as a reward for the sit. Then build distance again, now having him sit before going out. Then have him sit for longer. If you have problems, go back to working closer to the target.

When the dog is able to do all that, heel him to the target, don't drop the toy, heel him away from the target, turn and face the target, have him sit at heel. Leave him on a sit stay and you walk to the target and put his toy down. Then return to him and send him. When that's going well, start occasionally faking it. Leave him on a sit stay, walk to the target, pretend you're dropping his toy but don't put it down, return to him. Send him to the target and run behind him. As he gets near the target, throw his toy to or past the target - past the dog. Try not to let him see you throw it, it should just magically appear. Vary it so sometimes you place the toy before sending him and sometimes you throw it when he's approaching the target. Also, if you run behind him even when the toy was placed there, he won't associate you running behind him with the toy not being placed first.

Then start close to the target again. Heel the dog to and away from the target, turn and have him sit facing the target. Send him without you going to the target to place his toy. Follow him so you can throw the toy for him. Again, gradually add distance, always going closer if there are problems.

Next is to start adding the sit at the end. Send him to the target and follow him. As he gets near it, ask for a sit. When he does, reward him. Have the reward come from you so he gets the idea of turning to face you on the sit. Don't ask for a sit every time. If you send him without a sit at the end, the toy comes from the target (either placed there before or thrown as he approaches). If you ask for a sit at the end, the toy comes from you (rewarding for the sit).

Now start moving the target or sending him from different directions. And then start using different targets.

 

[Kmh1]

Thank you both again for all the great info and details. I now have a really good idea about how I want to proceed. I can't wait to start working on this and like I said I'll try to update with progress reports LOL! If you also have any tips for teaching a dog who refuses to be lured over on his side how to "roll over" I'd love to hear those too!

 

[corgipower]

Kmh, I was thnking about this last night and decided to add that I'm not sure I would train both the place and the formal send out simultaneously. I never have. I've always taught a place first and they've been pretty much solid on that before teaching the send out. I don't know if it would cause confusion to train them both simultaneously.

The send out is enough different -- but that's in large part because I train the place around the house ~ in the living room, the bedroom, the kitchen. I train the send out in places where we do other formal training -- the yard, the park, training club...It's so situational that it's a different exercise.

The place, I never get rid of the target (mat, bed) but it might change. The dog might have to find it (i.e. it might be in the next room or behind him). You don't want him to think he needs to find the target on the send out. He should just run straight away from you.