How can I stop this?

[Gwinnywillow]

Fine, I used the wrong word, but it has nothing to do with the argument itself, being that 90% of people couldn't care less about dog psychology. On this forum, we do, but it's hardly the reason why people keep their dogs inside as a rule.

Yes it is...even though good dog owners do not realize it, they use psychology with their dogs 24/7. Some folks just know by nature how to communicate with their dogs as far as training and such. Others who go deeper into canine conduct do benefit from an understanding of canine psychology.

Human psychology is also fascinating. Many years ago there was a book by Vance Packard called "The Hidden Persuaders", about packaging products for marketing. With laundry detergent, people responded that they felt that products packaged in red packaging would be too harsh. Blue made them feel "dinginess". Orange was just fine! Which was and likely is the reason that Tide is one of the best selling laundry detergents! Plus it smells good, and does a great job cleaning clothes.

In order to have a happy dog, it helps if we have a clue as to how they think and react about things. Every dog owner has to have a smidgeon of dog psychology under his/her belt! Those who tell us "my dog won't do this or that" or "my dog doesn't like this or that" is expressing an understanding of the doggie thinking processes. Understanding that dogs are pack animals and only truly comfortable when with their "pack"..human or otherwise...shows that we realize how dogs "think". Understanding thinking=PSYCHOLOGY!

Hence, we are all of us canine psychologists to various extents. And we realize that our dogs are happiest when with us as much as is possible.

Also, there are other considerations, such as climatic conditions, safety from harm or mishaps, and safety from environmental situations that must be added to the equation. Dogs are safer inside. That is why God invented crates. And vacuum cleaners, and several other devices.

 

[Gwinnywillow]

Well, I think cats are happier when allowed inside/outside, and I think dogs are happier when allowed inside/outside. I guess in some circumstances this is not the safest alternative, but I agree with you.

My dogs were crate trained when they were young, but I no longer use it for that purpose. And even when they were young, during the day they would either be inside with me, or if I had to go away, they would be outside in the fenced yard. Believe me, all of my dogs would rather be in the yard during the day than in a crate. The crate was a helpfull housebreaking aid, but that is all the further it went. I would much rather see a dog running and barking in the backyard than stuck in a 2' x 3' crate all day long.

It really is very interesting to see some peoples views to protect their animals from what might happen, but I bet some of those same people give their own children more rope to hang themselves.

Thanks for this never ending thread, always so much to think about.

Julie.

Yuppers.....you are right as regards leaving dogs crated excessively. BUT....look at your dogs. How do they spend the majority of their time? Sleeping curled up in an area even smaller than 2'x3' Dogs love to go out and run around the yard, bark at whatever they can see to bark at, and chase birds, etc. But after that, they want back inside in their nice climate controlled home, on the sofa, chair, bed or other soft sleeping accommodation! And of course during the summer or winter, there are temperature considerations.....which of course also depend on the type of dog....whether it is hairy or naked.

As with everything else in life, a happy medium must be struck.

 

[Julie]

Yuppers.....you are right as regards leaving dogs crated excessively. BUT....look at your dogs. How do they spend the majority of their time? Sleeping curled up in an area even smaller than 2'x3' Dogs love to go out and run around the yard, bark at whatever they can see to bark at, and chase birds, etc. But after that, they want back inside in their nice climate controlled home, on the sofa, chair, bed or other soft sleeping accommodation! And of course during the summer or winter, there are temperature considerations.....which of course also depend on the type of dog....whether it is hairy or naked.

As with everything else in life, a happy medium must be struck.

Well my dogs are not allowed on my sofa, chair, or bed, but they do have big doggie beds to sleep on, but if I am not home for them to follow around, they would much rather be outside stretched out in the sun, or chasing a fly, or relieving themselves when needed. All my dogs are working dogs, and they are very active. To confine them to 2'x3' crates while I am gone would be asking too much of them. Although they are trustworthy and don't need crates at all anymore. But still, if I leave the house, for the most part they go to the backyard, just because there is more room to run and play, and they tend to get to get more excersise. I know if I left them in the house while I am gone, they just curl up and sleep. Dogs need excercise and they get more in the yard than locked up in the house.

I don't think we disagree on anything really, but we are just missing each others points. And maybe it has to do with our own evironments and culture.

 

[Fran27]

I disagree that safer=happier honestly. It's the same argument that people use with cats going in or out really. You can't really confine a dog inside just because it's safer, I think it's just too easy to take it to the extreme and overprotect a pet (or a child really) using that argument.

I agree that we all use canine psychology to an extent, but I think most owners just don't care about it, which is different. Also, in my opinion training is a perfect example of it, we condition dogs to execute commands to fit our way of life instead of trying to understand their psychology and the way they naturally act.

And yes, dogs always want to come back inside eventually but it's because we taught them to as pups. It's hardly in their psychology, in my opinion.

 

[Gwinnywillow]

My dogs are only crated when I am not here. I personally do not feel right leaving dogs outside loose unattended. Once upon a time one of my dogs was "chasing a fly" that was in fact a bee. She got stung, and her head started swelling immediately. Had I not been home to see it and take her to a vet, her throat would have closed off and she would have suffocated.

My dogs spend at the most maybe 3 hours every two weeks in their crates. The rest of the time they are free to do whatever their spirits lead them to do. They have direct access to outdoors whenever they need to "Relieve themselves" (or give me some relief).

My only point is that no dog should ever be shut off or shut away from its people. And that dogs should be allowed to spend as much time in the company of their humans as they wish.

And yes it is true that the average dog owner could not care less about canine psychology. The shelters are full of the evidence of their not caring about getting to know and working with their dogs. Personally I have little patience for the "average" dog owner. They are the ones that allow all the problems to develop to the extreme so that they end up dumping their dogs off at the shelter.

 

[evenstar7139]

My opinion is this. What's the point in having a dog if you don't do anything with it? Get a stuffed lab o.0

 

[sonny]

sad

I think he should have a home where he can be part of the pack (family)thats sad to do that to him,if you gonna keep him get him a mate to keep him company,but on the other hand one dog miss treated is one to many ,be selfless and find him a good home please have a heart!screw the dam patio it has no feelings and if cant go on the patio i guess the house is out of the question again do the right thing get him a home your yard is not a home....

Thank you for reading this and I would sure appreciate your valuable and expert advise.

I have a 2 year old male labrador. Absolutely gorgeous dog, exceptional intellect and behavior except for one thing. You see, he's a yard dog. He lives in the backyard. It's a large backyard with plenty of room but even still, we walk in almost every day.

The problem that we have is that he constantly wants to climb up on the patio and sit and stare at us through the glass doors. The closer his nose is to the glass, the happier the dog is. The problem with this is the muddy paw prints all over the patio tiles and my family doesn't like being stared at while we go about our lives and when we have visitors, it's downright embarassing. I know the dog wants to come in and be part of the family but that can't happen not now, not ever.

I have been successful to a point in teaching the dog that the patio is a ' no go zone' but as soon as I turn my back, he's back up there. When I walk towards the glass door, he scrams like a bat out of hell because he knows he going to get a loud 'NO' from me so he obviously knows that it's wrong to get up on the patio.

Other than this, for a 2 year old labrador, he's a gem. Doesn't dig or destroy the garden anymore, plays with his toys when bored, doesn't go near the washing on the line so I'm very keen to resolve this.

By the way, the patio is completely open and I don't want to put a fence around it. Has anyone got any ideas how I can keep the dog off the patio?

 

[chugalug]

I think he should have a home where he can be part of the pack (family)thats sad to do that to him,if you gonna keep him get him a mate to keep him company,but on the other hand one dog miss treated is one to many ,be selfless and find him a good home please have a heart!screw the dam patio it has no feelings and if cant go on the patio i guess the house is out of the question again do the right thing get him a home your yard is not a home....

Yeah I know it's a tough one and the decision should be based on the dogs best interests and have nothing to do with me or my family. But to be compelely honest here, I'm torn completely down the middle. Torn between keeping the dog and continously reinforcing boundaries until he grows out of his prolonged puppyhood and 'get's it' or the option put forward here so many times.

And that's finding him a new owner who's like you all that keep suggesting rehoming, that most likely will end up denying him daylight, keep him caged in a 2'x3' cage in an apartment all day while his new owner is at work, develop severe pyschological problems as a result and get booked in to see a vet to have his testicles surgically removed. Rehoming my dog to people like you (aka. extremist dog lovers) is in the dogs best interest. Yeah, right.

 

[tessa_s212]

Yeah I know it's a tough one and the decision should be based on the dogs best interests and have nothing to do with me or my family. But to be compelely honest here, I'm torn completely down the middle. Torn between keeping the dog and continously reinforcing boundaries until he grows out of his prolonged puppyhood and 'get's it' or the option put forward here so many times.

And that's finding him a new owner who's like you all that keep suggesting rehoming, that most likely will end up denying him daylight, keep him caged in a 2'x3' cage in an apartment all day while his new owner is at work, develop severe pyschological problems as a result and get booked in to see a vet to have his testicles surgically removed. Rehoming my dog to people like you (aka. extremist dog lovers) is in the dogs best interest. Yeah, right.

What an aweful and incorrect generalization of all dog lovers.

 

[sonny]

sad

not sure what people like me comment was but anyway what does bieng in a crate have to do with ignoring the dog while you are home???you say he looks in on the family and you dont like himlooing in on your patio,crates are used to protect the dog from dangers while you are away when you get home its play time...how much sulight do you get at work??anyway even if the dogs left out when your working let him in the house when you get home,my dog loves his crate hes a 11 month old american pitbull terrier he goes in it on his own the doors open but he stays in it anyway ,they like it is an indoor doghouse he can feel part of the family,i think that far outways the sunlight theory you mentioned.anyway do whats right for the dog imagine if you were on the outside looking in, sad....

Yeah I know it's a tough one and the decision should be based on the dogs best interests and have nothing to do with me or my family. But to be compelely honest here, I'm torn completely down the middle. Torn between keeping the dog and continously reinforcing boundaries until he grows out of his prolonged puppyhood and 'get's it' or the option put forward here so many times.

And that's finding him a new owner who's like you all that keep suggesting rehoming, that most likely will end up denying him daylight, keep him caged in a 2'x3' cage in an apartment all day while his new owner is at work, develop severe pyschological problems as a result and get booked in to see a vet to have his testicles surgically removed. Rehoming my dog to people like you (aka. extremist dog lovers) is in the dogs best interest. Yeah, right.

 

[chugalug]

What an aweful and incorrect generalization of all dog lovers.

Yes sweetheart, it is awful but I'm not replying to correct your spelling, just your reading. I was referring to 'extremist' dog lovers that espouse rehoming when the owner does not fit their view of the world and NOT the wonderful 'moderate' people who can suggest solutions. If you see yourself as an extremist, the description may be a reality check with a mile of evidence contained in posts on this board as an insight to you appalling attitudes.

Quite frankly, I've had a gutful of extremist doggie lovers and don't welcome their posts no more. My advice to them is to 'get a life'.

 

[Zoom]

Or you could find one that works from home, takes the dog to work, uses a doggie daycare...there are options to day-long crating. And I bet that when you're not at home, your dog is curled up in a little 2x3 ball right in front of that patio door.

I most likely fall into the classfication of 'extremist' but I can guarantee you that my dog is one of the happiest, healthiest and well-adjusted dogs you'd ever meet. Even without his balls.

 

[chugalug]

Zoom, you're the only doggie extremist I like and I found your last post amusing. I am so totally sure your dogs lead a splendid life even though their natural reason for existing as an animal, and that's to go forth and multiply, has been surgically taken away from them.

 

[sonny]

ignorant

it seems you are out of touch with these post you asked the questions got compassionate replys with your pet in mind ,you dont want to hear them i gues thats why you care more about your patio than your dog maybe you should check yourself and get a life.

Yes sweetheart, it is awful but I'm not replying to correct your spelling, just your reading. I was referring to 'extremist' dog lovers that espouse rehoming when the owner does not fit their view of the world and NOT the wonderful 'moderate' people who can suggest solutions. If you see yourself as an extremist, the description may be a reality check with a mile of evidence contained in posts on this board as an insight to you appalling attitudes.

Quite frankly, I've had a gutful of extremist doggie lovers and don't welcome their posts no more. My advice to them is to 'get a life'.

 

[Zoom]

I thought animals were for eating?

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment...how do you view people who have been surgically altered? Women with hysterectemies, men with testiclurectomies (sp?)...By the above logic, their reason for existing has been surgically removed.

I don't know how things are on your end, but over here, the "go forth and multiply" has been done to the death. There is such an overpopluation of dogs and cats that it's frankly embarrassing. Not to mention I'd rather not lose my dog to car when he's out roaming for the ladies...and he wouldn't be allowed in daycare if he wasn't fixed. Intact behaviors cause fights, not necessarily because the intact dog started them, but from other dogs.

 

[chugalug]

Passes poor little sonny a tissue, " here little one, wipe the tears from your eyes"

 

[sonny]

hey what can i say i would defend you if you were locked out of the house too ,no crying here im more likly to be violent.

Passes poor little sonny a tissue, " here little one, wipe the tears from your eyes"

 

[chugalug]

hey what can i say i would defend you if you were locked out of the house too ,no crying here im more likly to be violent.

Is that a threat? Should I be scared? Do I need to take out a Protective Order against you? How would the Chazhound moderators consider your anti-social behavior?

Let me remind you that you are traceable by IP address. Probably not, judging by the way you type, your IQ is comparable to that of a cabbage.

 

[nedim]

you are a complete idiot take it how you want to take it,i said i would defend you ,and i would not likly be crying im a violent type not a type to go cry,so do what you must,and go fuk yourself douchbag

yo, you two need to chill. Get a life and stop threatening ppl over the internet. Not a cool thing to do.

 

[chugalug]

you are a complete idiot take it how you want to take it,i said i would defend you ,and i would not likly be crying im a violent type not a type to go cry,so do what you must,and go fuk yourself douchbag

Sonny, it's 'douchebag'. Hmmm, kinda confirms the IQ issue thing

You wouldn't happen to be parole would you?