Follow up to Labradoodle found in the woods

[Dale Davenport]

The first two or three days she ate resulted in diarrhea. Her digestion of food has fixed itself and she has put on 13lbs in 10 days.
She is up to 57lbs from 44lbs. The lead leash and walks in the backyard have worked up to 1 miles walks on a leash with my wife. This dog loves women and children and the neighborhood little ones love her. She is a little jumpy around men including me. My children came home from college this weekend and she immediately greeted them with affection. She is getting better at reading us to know what she should do. This is all i wanted. We have been a two dog family for three years. My wife has always wanted to get a giant schnauzer when our 15 year old Basset hound dies. She died a couple of days ago.
She had many health issues and we were relieved that she passed on.
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37145
I spent Saturday with my son and when i came home there was a giant dog house in the backyard, a big dog bed in the family room and a new large engraved dog food bowl with the name Daffy in the kitchen. It looks to me like my wife has made the decision on what to do with this dog. I agree with her. The walking her on a leash challenge is headed in the right direction.
My next concern is will she return to me if i let her loose. I am not sure how to test this. I hike many miles with my Schnawzer. I was thinking about bringing Daffy. I am not going to do this until i know she will always return to me. My wife really likes this dog I would hate to loose Daffy. If this happened i know who would be sleeping in that big new dog house. It would be me.

 

[dr2little]

I'm glad you're keeping Daffy..and I'll bet she's pretty exstatic about it herself..
She reminds me of my big girl Sophie, she's some "pot of gold" you found...you didn't mention a raibow but what other explanation could there be???.
Anyway, I'd recommend teaching her an emergency recall -
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36494&highlight=emergency+recall
Also, what do the two dogs think of eachother? Does Daffy tend to follow your schnauzer around....this of course will help you with her recall.

Anyway, I'm glad that you found each other...the stars were aligned that day for sure, especially knowing about sweet Birdie's passing so close to her arrival. It's like she magically appeared to to help cushion your grief a bit. It's amazing what having to care for another dog in need will do to help to heal a sad heart.

 

[bubbatd]

Have you read " My Angels Wear Fur " ??? Many stories of how animals " find" us ! Birdie did a great job ! I understand your concern as to the walks . Do you have a collar bell ?? I would walk with both dogs ...keeping Daffy on leash going and try the off line going home . Have treats in your pocket and call both dogs back to you quite often and reward. Might be wise to have your wife go with you for a while . Don't do your long treks at first . Anxious to hear your reports ! Would love to see some pictures !

 

[Dale Davenport]

Thanks for that link to the Emergency call. That seems easy enough. That is much more important training than the typical shake and roll over kind of stuff.
She does follow my Schnauzer. She is very playful and much larger so he gets tired of her at times. When this happens he gets to a place that she cant get.
Any clues about stopping hole digging

 

[Doberluv]

Enjoyed reading your post, especially about you being in the dog house. ROFLOL.

This is great news. I am sorry though for your loss, although, like you say, when our pals are suffering, it is a relief to let them go, even though we miss them for a long time.

I had a sneaky suspicion you were going to end up keeping this dog. LOL. It sounds like it was meant to be.

Along with the emergency recall, I would recommend practicing your regular recall every day, and making it the greatest thing for her everytime she comes. And make sure that your command is enforced. I always start out not using the command, enticing the dog to come by some other means and only using the command when the dog is positively coming. Then later you can try using the cue word to elicit the behavior. And of course, practice where there is absoluely no risk of her getting hit by a car. I use to practice my dogs out on a hike where there is not a soul anywhere around...still do. That's where lots of our training practice takes place.

One thing I've always done on our hikes is to carry treats in my pocket and everytime the dogs would come near me, I'd give them a tiny treat and praise them, pat them a little and send them off on their way. Sometimes I'd call them, sometimes I'd just give them a treat for coming on their own, just coming close. Now they regularily "check in." LOL. They don't go far anyhow, but they go up a little ways on the trail and everytime I call them, they all come roaring back close to me. They also learned the word, "trail." It means to get back onto the trail.

Anyhow, good luck. Keep us posted. This is just such great news.

Oh...the digging. Well, that takes a lot of supervision, not allowing her the payoff of the digging activity where you don't want it. You can make a designated area, like a sandbox and bury treats, toys, whatever in there and encourage her to dig there, praise, reward, make it fun. And when she digs in flower bed, distract her, get her out and praise for "out." (or whatever word you want to use) But if you leave her in the yard without watching her, there's no way to really teach her that. If you go through the hassle of constant supervision and consistantly showing her what you mean, reinforcing etc....it shouldn't take more than a week or two to learn.

Good luck!~

 

[Dale Davenport]

Progress pictures

Progress pictures of Baffy http://new.photos.yahoo.com/aosdale1/album/576460762318109844#page1

She is getting healthy and playful. I fill my pockets with treats so that i can get her to trust me more. I don't know how long she was living in the Forrest before i found her. I would guess a long time based on her behavior. She loves my dog and at times i can play with her. She is always on pins and needles when i am around her. This makes her hard to train. My Schnauzer watches every move i make to get a clue of what he should be doing. We have a very close bond and training him is easy. All he wants to do is please me and be rewarded. I don't think i will ever get this out of baffy. The months she has spent living on her own in the Forrest has made her behavior like that of a scared raccoon trying to get food from a human without getting hurt. I will give her a good home and continue to give her rewards and affection. Every week she is a little better than the week before but it is slow going. When i put her out at night she barks at every sound. This is something i have to stop. Responsible pet owners don't allow their pets to effect their neighbors in a negative way. I was considering a shock collar. I dont know what else to do.

 

[dr2little]

Progress pictures of Baffy http://new.photos.yahoo.com/aosdale1/album/576460762318109844#page1

She is getting healthy and playful. I fill my pockets with treats so that i can get her to trust me more. I don't know how long she was living in the Forrest before i found her. I would guess a long time based on her behavior. She loves my dog and at times i can play with her. She is always on pins and needles when i am around her. This makes her hard to train. My Schnauzer watches every move i make to get a clue of what he should be doing. We have a very close bond and training him is easy. All he wants to do is please me and be rewarded. I don't think i will ever get this out of baffy. The months she has spent living on her own in the Forrest has made her behavior like that of a scared raccoon trying to get food from a human without getting hurt. I will give her a good home and continue to give her rewards and affection. Every week she is a little better than the week before but it is slow going. When i put her out at night she barks at every sound. This is something i have to stop. Responsible pet owners don't allow their pets to effect their neighbors in a negative way. I was considering a shock collar. I dont know what else to do.

I'm glad you're making progress with Daffy, she's one lucky dog.
It's sad to hear how frightened she is due to her past but any rescue can have what we refer to as rescue mentality and can often take 3 months or more before you see the real dog emerge.

Does she stay out all night? I would love to help you teach her not to bark rather than see you put a shock collar on an already traumatized dog. I would need to know more details though. The way that you've described her, I really think that you will be making matters much worse by adding a shock collar into the mix. You ARE making progress and the fact that she is starting to trust is so beautiful...I promise you, using a shock collar will put a huge crimp in what you're trying to accomplish.

I have 5 dogs and neighbors on all sides close enough to spit on.. All of my dogs breeds are know to have a propensity for barking. I'm so with you as far as responsible dog ownership goes and do not believe that my neighbors should suffer bark disturbance just because I'm a dog freak.. We have very strict noise bylaws here and my dogs are not allowed to bark outdoors except for the one "I want back in" bark. Training this behavior away in a very positive way is doable and will allow you to retain the trust and progress you've already attained with Daffy.

I have a 14 hour work day today.....if you can call teaching puppy and adult dog classes "work" , but I will check back in later for details so that I can post a proper game plan based on your specifics.

**I tried to look at the link for more pictures of Daffy but only saw the one you already posted of her when she first came to you**

 

[Zoom]

A side note to what Doberluv said about the digging...in addition to providing her a place to dig, you can put dog poop into the holes she has already dug. Most dogs hate to get their paws dirty like that and will avoid those holes like the plauge. You can cover the waste with a thin layer of dirt if you want to. The best part...it's a very renewable resource.

I'm happy to hear that you're keeping her and taking such pains to get her to warm up to you! Give it time...my old Dobie mix took forever it seemed to stop cowering around my dad...love, patience and lots of treats is the way to go here.

 

[Dale Davenport]

*I tried to look at the link for more pictures of Daffy but only saw the one you already posted of her when she first came to you**

I added two. I am keeping them in one folder and adding two new pictures every two weeks with her new weight. I plan to do this until she reaches a good weight.

 

[Dale Davenport]

"A side note to what Doberluv said about the digging...in addition to providing her a place to dig, you can put dog poop into the holes she has already dug. Most dogs hate to get their paws dirty like that and will avoid those holes like the plauge. You can cover the waste with a thin layer of dirt if you want to. The best part...it's a very renewable resource."

Thanks i have plenty poop to work with. Her holes are not real big.

 

[Dale Davenport]

I'm glad you're making progress with Daffy, she's one lucky dog.
It's sad to hear how frightened she is due to her past but any rescue can have what we refer to as rescue mentality and can often take 3 months or more before you see the real dog emerge.

Does she stay out all night? I would love to help you teach her not to bark rather than see you put a shock collar on an already traumatized dog. I would need to know more details though. The way that you've described her, I really think that you will be making matters much worse by adding a shock collar into the mix. You ARE making progress and the fact that she is starting to trust is so beautiful...I promise you, using a shock collar will put a huge crimp in what you're trying to accomplish.

I have 5 dogs and neighbors on all sides close enough to spit on.. All of my dogs breeds are know to have a propensity for barking. I'm so with you as far as responsible dog ownership goes and do not believe that my neighbors should suffer bark disturbance just because I'm a dog freak.. We have very strict noise bylaws here and my dogs are not allowed to bark outdoors except for the one "I want back in" bark. Training this behavior away in a very positive way is doable and will allow you to retain the trust and progress you've already attained with Daffy.

I have a 14 hour work day today.....if you can call teaching puppy and adult dog classes "work" , but I will check back in later for details so that I can post a proper game plan based on your specifics.

**I tried to look at the link for more pictures of Daffy but only saw the one you already posted of her when she first came to you**

We have been letting her sleep in our bedroom. She is NOT house broke so we take her out a few times at night. The problem is getting her back in. She will lay on the deck as soon as i open the door she will walk up to the door way but will not go through. If i approach her she jumps off of the deck and stays 8ft away. In my sleepy, cold and half naked condition i have not been patient. I slide the door shut and say to myself i will work on this later. She lays on the deck and barks at other dogs that bark back. I open the door and she jumps back off the deck. If i am standing she keeps her distance. She is also afraid of doorways. The combination of the two problems makes it difficult to retrieve her. When it is nice out I have left the door open and walked away and eventually she will come in. She will approach me if i am setting or squatted down away from the door. Her focus is on Bogey my Schnauzer. His focus is on me so Baffy stays around him and he stays with me. I am going to try to use him to get her in. He cant stand to be inside if i am outside and will bark at the door. She hears the bark and goes to the door. She will only do this if i am not standing there. This morning i opened the door and shut it behind me. Bogey is now barking at the door because he wants to be with me. If i sit in a chair on the deck Baffy will walk on to the deck and approach the door. I gently approach the door and open it while her focus is on Bogey and she walked in. I praised her. She is comfortably resting indoors but i am wide awake at 4:00 AM, smelling a slight aroma of dog urine in the air. She is difficult but improving.

I have many behavior problems. The biggest is that she does not trust me. That makes all of the other problems harder to fix. I am glad i am up early i have carpets to clean. Any good suggestion of removing urine smell from carpets.

 

[bubbatd]

I'm proud of you for the way you're handling this ! Try Nature's Miracle . More updates as you gain on this !

 

[Herschel]

Nature's Miracle or Petastic (same stuff). I'm really proud of you for doing this, by the way.

Have you thought about enrolling Dr2Little's help on positively training her to gain her trust? It seems like positive reinforcement is the only choice you have here (not to mention it is the only thing you should be using anyway). Good luck!

 

[Doberluv]

If i approach her she jumps off of the deck and stays 8ft away.

Often when a human tries to get a dog to come by facing the dog, perhaps bending forward a little (primate gesture) it is really telling the dog to stay where he is or to back off, especially a shy or uneasy dog or until the dog gets use to it....or conditioned to it. If you want to encourage your dog to come, face away from him, run back the opposite direction. This probably won't work right now for getting the dog to come off the porch. But as a preliminary exercise, you can practice this game outside when you're playing with her or even inside. Try running a little bit the other way and maybe toss a ball (if she likes that), make playful noises, drop some treats along the way if you have to. When she is coming toward you (while you're facing away from her) give her a jack pot....a really special treat and praise. Get her use to coming to you and reinforce that every time. When she is fairly close to you....a couple of feet away, then add it the cue, "lets go." (this is an informal come which means to come near you, but it doesn't have to be precise) Later, you can turn sideways....just avoid facing directly at her and avoid direct eye contact for now. Later on she'll get more use to this and you will probably be able to start getting her to come when you're facing her and standing still. Then you can start working on a formal come where she comes right in front of you and sits.

Little by little, if you use motivation and reward methods to teach her, she will gain more and more trust in you and get onto life with you.

Sometimes when there is a behavior glitch like what you describe....getting her in off the porch, you can't always deal with it right then and there, directly. You sometimes have to work up to it by going around to the "back door" so to speak....lessons at other times.

 

[Dale Davenport]

Often when a human tries to get a dog to come by facing the dog, perhaps bending forward a little (primate gesture) it is really telling the dog to stay where he is or to back off, especially a shy or uneasy dog or until the dog gets use to it....or conditioned to it. If you want to encourage your dog to come, face away from him, run back the opposite direction. This probably won't work right now for getting the dog to come off the porch. But as a preliminary exercise, you can practice this game outside when you're playing with her or even inside. Try running a little bit the other way and maybe toss a ball (if she likes that), make playful noises, drop some treats along the way if you have to. When she is coming toward you (while you're facing away from her) give her a jack pot....a really special treat and praise. Get her use to coming to you and reinforce that every time. When she is fairly close to you....a couple of feet away, then add it the cue, "lets go." (this is an informal come which means to come near you, but it doesn't have to be precise) Later, you can turn sideways....just avoid facing directly at her and avoid direct eye contact for now. Later on she'll get more use to this and you will probably be able to start getting her to come when you're facing her and standing still. Then you can start working on a formal come where she comes right in front of you and sits.

Little by little, if you use motivation and reward methods to teach her, she will gain more and more trust in you and get onto life with you.

Sometimes when there is a behavior glitch like what you describe....getting her in off the porch, you can't always deal with it right then and there, directly. You sometimes have to work up to it by going around to the "back door" so to speak....lessons at other times.

I have noticed that she approaches me from behind. She even touches my hand with her nose. I have said in previous post that i am carrying treats to get her attention. I have made a greater commitment to always having treats and giving them out. I went through 2 pounds of dog biscuits yesterday. I have been wearing cargo shorts with those big pockets on the sides. The dogs followed me everywhere. I gave out dog biscuits for the simplest behavior. Just come take them from my hand. This worked very well. I noticed a break through in that she happily approached me by herself. I came home from a bike ride and let them in the house. Bogey is jumping and happy like all our dogs are when we get home. Baffy came in with him. I was changing clothes when Baffy walked down the hall to see me. Bogey was not around and this was the first time that she walked down the hall by herself. I grabbed a biscuit from my cargo shorts and gave her some love. She had to walk through 3 doorways and the hall to find me. In the past she would just stick her nose into the hall and if she saw me she jumped back. If we met in the hall she would panic and run to one of her safe spots and lay down. I am slowly becoming that safe spot. Anywhere i am is where she is safe. Yesterday was a good dog day. She even slept beside my chair while Bogey was in another room.

I watch her closely because she is not house broken. While posting this i caught her sqautted on the rug in front of the back door. I said NO and then i opened the door and she went out. These are the only times that i yell at her. It does scare her and she want to get out. This is how i have always house broken my dogs. All my pets have figuired out on their own how to get outside. This must be very complicated for them. Even if they know that they should not go in the house they have to get the door open to go outside.
Any ideas on how to train her to show me that she wants me to open the backdoor. My Schnauzer barks. Baffy has pawed at the door from the outside and i have opened it. I dont want her to paw at the door i would rather she bark. Yet i am trying to ask her not to bark at other dogs when she is outside. I know i am giving her mixed messages. I would like any behavior that allows her to communicate to me that she wants the door opened. I can modify it at a later time. Should i put something that she wants on the other side of the door and open it if she barks. Should i work with her alone and put my Schnauzer in another room.

 

[Doberluv]

Baffy has pawed at the door from the outside and i have opened it. I dont want her to paw at the door i would rather she bark. Yet i am trying to ask her not to bark at other dogs when she is outside. I know i am giving her mixed messages. I would like any behavior that allows her to communicate to me that she wants the door opened. I can modify it at a later time. Should i put something that she wants on the other side of the door and open it if she barks. Should i work with her alone and put my Schnauzer in another room.

I would not put something on the other side of the door because she will quickly learn that the food has to be there first and then she'll bark. You'll forever be having to put something out there. If you do do it that way, you'll need to attach a cue word when she barks, like "speak." Then asap you'll need to eliminate that food from being a bribe. Then, after you're sure she has connected the word, "speak" with the barking, use that cue and reward after she barks.

Later, after she is barking reliably on cue and has made the association between the bark and opening the door, you can gradually eliminate the cue word by reinforcing her barking at the door. Even if she's barking at something or someone and sitting or standing by the door, open it. Bark=door opening (her reinforcement). This reward is called a life reward. It is not a treat because at that time she wants to go outside. That is foremost on her wish list. LOL. So that makes a life reward.

There are other ways. You can hang a bell on a string from the doorknob and put the tiniest smiggin of peanut butter on it. Show her. And when the bell rings open the door. It will take a lot of reps probably for her to connect the bell ringing with the door opening. Keep using the peanut butter for quite a while until you can see that she has made that association.

If you don't want her pawing at the door, don't reinforce that. Opening the door for her is reinforcing. If you don't want her scratching the door and need to do more than sit there and ignore it, distract her and show her an alternative. At first you won't have an alternative for signalling you that she needs to go out.....not until you train with the bell or "speak."

You can teach a dog to stop unnecessary or incessent barking. You can teach the "enough" behavior. When the dog stops to take a breath, insert treat and cue word, "enough." This is not a harsh, angry tone. Barking is not always a no no, right? So, you don't want to punish it. But "enough" means that barking is not a bad thing, but that you want it to stop for now. Barking at other dogs is so normal. You really have to go to your dog, not holler from a distance and distract and re-direct, reinforce for compliance.

A clicker is MOST helpful in this situation, among others. But here is where you may get one second of quiet and you want to mark that for her. DO NOT use the word, "enough" while she's barking or she'll associate "enough" with barking. It will become the cue to bark. Only use the word when she stops barking. She has to take a breath inbetween barking. That's when you take advantage of the situation.

I highly reommend you look into clicker training. There's a little bit of study, but you can get a good start in fairly short order.

http://www.clickerlessons.com/index.html

There are other great sites too....Karen Pryor's...(she "wrote the book" on clicker training). There's one called clicker solutions. They're great sites.

 

[Dale Davenport]

Have you read " My Angels Wear Fur " ??? Many stories of how animals " find" us ! Birdie did a great job ! I understand your concern as to the walks . Do you have a collar bell ?? I would walk with both dogs ...keeping Daffy on leash going and try the off line going home . Have treats in your pocket and call both dogs back to you quite often and reward. Might be wise to have your wife go with you for a while . Don't do your long treks at first . Anxious to hear your reports ! Would love to see some pictures !

Why would i use a collar bell? Is this to help the dog or is it for me to easily hear where she is. I know i am slow to respond but i have been thinking about this.