Fear of other dogs?

[GipsyQueen]

Zora gets nervous around (bigger) dogs. When we picked her up from the breeders, she said she was going through a fearful phase (they took the puppies to the stables).
We go on little walks and obviously meet other dogs She gets skittish though and tries to hide/back away when they get close. Dogs barking scare her too
We have two dogs living on the property behind ours, and they bark once in a while. We were out back the other day, when they started barking and she ran to the front door.
When we meet dogs on the street she's extremly careful when she approches. She waits until we pet the other dog and then carefully tries to sniff them. When she gets close enough she backs away, and then approches again. This goes on for about 5 minutes and then she "trusts" them.
She wasn't as scared of a Spitz that is around her hight though?

I'm trying to remember if this is normal puppy behavior, but Gipsy being a puppy was sooo long ago.
Should I be worried, or be doing more to reasure her?
I'm guessing it's just a phase - everything is so new and different. I just don't want this to turn into a thing.

 

[FG167]

Zora gets nervous around (bigger) dogs. When we picked her up from the breeders, she said she was going through a fearful phase (they took the puppies to the stables).
We go on little walks and obviously meet other dogs She gets skittish though and tries to hide/back away when they get close. Dogs barking scare her too
We have two dogs living on the property behind ours, and they bark once in a while. We were out back the other day, when they started barking and she ran to the front door.
When we meet dogs on the street she's extremly careful when she approches. She waits until we pet the other dog and then carefully tries to sniff them. When she gets close enough she backs away, and then approches again. This goes on for about 5 minutes and then she "trusts" them.
She wasn't as scared of a Spitz that is around her hight though?

I'm trying to remember if this is normal puppy behavior, but Gipsy being a puppy was sooo long ago.
Should I be worried, or be doing more to reasure her?
I'm guessing it's just a phase - everything is so new and different. I just don't want this to turn into a thing.

If it were me, I would not ask her to meet other dogs. When my dogs (all of my puppies have gone through this stage thus far) went through it. I ignored allllll other dogs, and played with them, used treats to do something they knew (even as simple as a luring-chase-the-hand game) to distract them. Robin was downright terrified (he was attacked horribly by a Mal at a very young age) and my best thing with him was to just ignore all other dogs and have him move with me - past them, around them, away from them whatever. All of my dogs are fairly dog neutral now (Robin is obnoxiously friendly now actually and Limit is fairly snarky).

It's very important not to coddle her when she's fearful, but make it very matter of fact while giving her support. Petting and cooing can make a dog think that they are right, there is something to be worried about. I always carried a toy (Ok, I totally taught my dogs to tug on a leash...) and/or some treats and when scary dogs appeared, we ignored and rewarded. Pretty soon my dogs would see other dogs and orient to me for a reward. Then when they were feeling more confident, I would occasionally let them meet new dogs, and then reward. Ex: people were CONSTANTLY wanting to let their GSDs meet Kastle. I would let them sniff noses and then I would back away a few steps (not impolite) and then feed him or tug on the leash while I wrapped the convo with the other owner up and then we'd leave. Kastle is completely indifferent to dogs now and will largely ignore them entirely. HOWEVER, if my dog does NOT want to meet another dog, I do not make them. Ever. Even in my household, we just take it slow. I want my dogs to know I am on their side, they never have to "love" other dogs, they just have to not be a complete ass.

ETA: I'm not a dog park person and I don't care if my dogs do not like each other. There may be better advice if that is the sort of dog you are trying to raise LOL I just want my dogs to tolerate others and think I'm the most fun thing in the world.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

I would treat it as a silly puppy phase but I would mark and reward any calm confidence watching or approaching that which she fears.

 

[sassafras]

I would treat it as a silly puppy phase but I would mark and reward any calm confidence watching or approaching that which she fears.

Agreed.

Another thing to try is just start stuffing really high value treats the second a scary thing appears in view but before she's reacted to it. It's not training, but just trying to create a pleasant association in her wee brain with the sight of those things. That worked really well for a brief "stranger danger" phase Squash went through.

 

[GipsyQueen]

If it were me, I would not ask her to meet other dogs. When my dogs (all of my puppies have gone through this stage thus far) went through it. I ignored allllll other dogs, and played with them, used treats to do something they knew (even as simple as a luring-chase-the-hand game) to distract them. Robin was downright terrified (he was attacked horribly by a Mal at a very young age) and my best thing with him was to just ignore all other dogs and have him move with me - past them, around them, away from them whatever. All of my dogs are fairly dog neutral now (Robin is obnoxiously friendly now actually and Limit is fairly snarky).

It's very important not to coddle her when she's fearful, but make it very matter of fact while giving her support. Petting and cooing can make a dog think that they are right, there is something to be worried about. I always carried a toy (Ok, I totally taught my dogs to tug on a leash...) and/or some treats and when scary dogs appeared, we ignored and rewarded. Pretty soon my dogs would see other dogs and orient to me for a reward. Then when they were feeling more confident, I would occasionally let them meet new dogs, and then reward. Ex: people were CONSTANTLY wanting to let their GSDs meet Kastle. I would let them sniff noses and then I would back away a few steps (not impolite) and then feed him or tug on the leash while I wrapped the convo with the other owner up and then we'd leave. Kastle is completely indifferent to dogs now and will largely ignore them entirely. HOWEVER, if my dog does NOT want to meet another dog, I do not make them. Ever. Even in my household, we just take it slow. I want my dogs to know I am on their side, they never have to "love" other dogs, they just have to not be a complete ass.

ETA: I'm not a dog park person and I don't care if my dogs do not like each other. There may be better advice if that is the sort of dog you are trying to raise LOL I just want my dogs to tolerate others and think I'm the most fun thing in the world.

Thank You! We don't make her meet dogs she does not want to - she shows interest... and wants to meet them but is afraid.
I don't mind if she doesn't like every dog - however she'll be walking off-leash on walks once her recall is 100% - and almost all dogs here walk off-leash (even though their recall is NOT 100%) and I want her to be confident if there's another dog coming towards her and not feel the need to run away

I would treat it as a silly puppy phase but I would mark and reward any calm confidence watching or approaching that which she fears.

Yeah I'm pretty sure it's a puppy phase, since she's extremly confident in everything else she does. When she hears load noises she usually sits, and listens, but isn't afraid. Im guessing everything is still so new to her.

Another thing to try is just start stuffing really high value treats the second a scary thing appears in view but before she's reacted to it. It's not training, but just trying to create a pleasant association in her wee brain with the sight of those things. That worked really well for a brief "stranger danger" phase Squash went through.

Thank you!

 

[DJEtzel]

What Falon said.

Also, I strongly discourage all meeting on a leash. Let her meet dogs her size/age in puppy classes off leash during play time, puppy socialization hours around town, friend's calm dogs, etc. But random dogs on the street that you don't know? I feel like this is setting dogs up to fail... can also aid in reactivity once dogs become friendly because they want to go play with EVERYONE. My dogs need to know that they aren't allowed to EVER go near a dog on a leash, because they are typically kept away for a reason. A walk is a walk, not play time, etc. Just some ideas for you! I train a positive association with look at that marker training on lead with other dogs from distances from a young age and have had great success with that and only letting puppies play with dogs that I know are calm and friendly when they're young and impressionable.

 

[GipsyQueen]

What Falon said.

Also, I strongly discourage all meeting on a leash. Let her meet dogs her size/age in puppy classes off leash during play time, puppy socialization hours around town, friend's calm dogs, etc. But random dogs on the street that you don't know? I feel like this is setting dogs up to fail... can also aid in reactivity once dogs become friendly because they want to go play with EVERYONE. My dogs need to know that they aren't allowed to EVER go near a dog on a leash, because they are typically kept away for a reason. A walk is a walk, not play time, etc. Just some ideas for you! I train a positive association with look at that marker training on lead with other dogs from distances from a young age and have had great success with that and only letting puppies play with dogs that I know are calm and friendly when they're young and impressionable.

Oh gosh no, we know the dog's she met! They are all dogs that are calm.

 

[DJEtzel]

Oh gosh no, we know the dog's she met! They are all dogs that are calm.

Oh, okay! Sorry, when you said "dogs on the street" I just assumed you didn't have a relationship with the people at the other end. lol.

Bad assumption. I'm not used to ever seeing the same dog twice when we're out and about, let alone enough to know what sort of style they have when it comes to dog-dog interactions.

 

[GipsyQueen]

Oh, okay! Sorry, when you said "dogs on the street" I just assumed you didn't have a relationship with the people at the other end. lol.

Bad assumption. I'm not used to ever seeing the same dog twice when we're out and about, let alone enough to know what sort of style they have when it comes to dog-dog interactions.

No worries I should have phrased it differently We usually see the same people with their dogs all the time just cause they have the same/similar scedules. ^^

 

[Red.Apricot]

Sounds like Elsie--I also ignored the fear, rewarded calmness, and didn't make her do anything she wasn't sure about. :]

 

[~WelshStump~]

Sorry to say it, but someone has to, NOT a "silly puppy faze", it is typical Beauceron.
My suggestion, you need to find a good "play group" where the other dogs are extremely controlled, I have a good video on Youtube somewhere of what a well run "puppy play group" looks like, but if that's not an option please try to find some very tolerant and well mannered adults, calm preferable, who she can "do her thing" with, and learn at her own pace that other dogs are good things and she should get better with age. To not do anything, or to keep forcing her to it "oh geez, it's just another dog and it's barking, get over it" WILL damage her. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but this comes from personal experience, I've talked with many other owners and really they can not stress socializing enough! Just make sure that each experience is well controlled, but as long as it is you absolutely can not over socialize them, but under can be damaging.

[YOUTUBE]1kc0RY7NoYI[/YOUTUBE]


ETA: Now that I've gotten a chance to read the other responses, most of them are not too far off. Should learn to stop underestimating Chaz folks.

 

[GipsyQueen]

Sorry to say it, but someone has to, NOT a "silly puppy faze", it is typical Beauceron.
My suggestion, you need to find a good "play group" where the other dogs are extremely controlled, I have a good video on Youtube somewhere of what a well run "puppy play group" looks like, but if that's not an option please try to find some very tolerant and well mannered adults, calm preferable, who she can "do her thing" with, and learn at her own pace that other dogs are good things and she should get better with age.a To not do nything, or to keep forcing her to it "oh geez, it's just another dog and it's barking, get over it" WILL damage her. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but this comes from personal experience, I've talked with many other owners and really they can not stress socializing enough! Just make sure that each experience is well controlled, but as long as it is you absolutely can not over socialize them, but under can be damaging.

[YOUTUBE]1kc0RY7NoYI[/YOUTUBE]


ETA: Now that I've gotten a chance to read the other responses, most of them are not too far off. Should learn to stop underestimating Chaz folks.

Thank you.

Maybe I worded badly - we are NOT forcing her to meet other dogs - if she walks by calmly, we reward, if she shows interest in meeting the dog (and we are familiar with said dog) she is allowed to meet the other dog and is reassured in calm behavior. She just takes a little bit of time to "trust" the other dog - once she knows a certian dog, all is good.

She is in a puppy play group now twice a week and has been doing much better with her fear issue since then as well.

 

[~WelshStump~]

Thank you.

Maybe I worded badly - we are NOT forcing her to meet other dogs - if she walks by calmly, we reward, if she shows interest in meeting the dog (and we are familiar with said dog) she is allowed to meet the other dog and is reassured in calm behavior. She just takes a little bit of time to "trust" the other dog - once she knows a certian dog, all is good.

She is in a puppy play group now twice a week and has been doing much better with her fear issue since then as well.

Yes, that is a Beauceron! Honestly when you think about it, it is the nature of the breed, being not just a herding dog but they would at the same time "guard" the livestock, it just makes sense when you really think about it.

And good to hear she's doing better with the classes! It really is what the breed needs to learn how to be social, you're doing very good with her, keep it up :thumbsupsmileyanim:!