Dog show etiquette as a spectator?

SoCrafty

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#1
There is an AKC dog show nearly every day this month in my boyfriend's town. He said that we could go on Sunday. I checked Infodog but I can't tell what groups will be there and at what times. We really want to see the herding group. How can I tell what time they will be in the ring?

What is appropriate as a spectator? Are we allowed to approach a handler after they are done and ask questions? We would really like to meet the breed. I've seen both Collies and Shelties in person, but he has not. Plus, I'd really like to ask questions about Shelties to someone who possibly breeds them. I am still hung up on two tiny aspects of something I read up in a book and online. I've been told that what I read was a scare tactic but I'd really like to see one or two or five in movement and personality. For all I know, the sheltie I knew could be a fluke.

Can anyone give me some dos and don'ts?
 

frostfell

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#2
DONT touch a coated dog anywhere, before or after they go in the ring, unless the handler says its okay and theyre done for the day. some people can be downright nasty if you muss a 'do that took 6 hours to perfect

DO ask when is a good time to chat. they will let you know when they arent running a million directions at once and when they can actually talk to you. usually its after their class or in the grooming area if theyre just touching up things

DONT get your feelings hurt if someone snaps or is curt. theyre under a lot of pressure from themselves and the dogs owners and their mind is not on the random stranger that is one of a thousand random strangers. once they are done for the day theyre a lot more human and nice

the entry area or information table will have ring numbers and times for what breeds go when, but that info is usually available online too, esp for AKC shows
 

Elrohwen

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Do you have the Infodog link for the show? You want to look for a link to the "Judging Program" which will come out about a week before the show. It will list ring numbers and times for each breed, and the groups. Generally the groups go one after the other around 3pm, but that will change a bit by show and how many entries it has. You can also get this information at the show, but you'll have to show up early so you don't miss anything, and then you might have to wait all day to see the breed you want.

The morning of the show you can pull up the Catalog from Infodog and see the names and owners of each dog entered. You can also buy a Catalog at the show grounds too for about $10.

I would wait for the breed to be done showing and then talk to people - people will be nervous and no chatty right before they go in. You can also walk around the grooming area before they show and chat with people then - just ask if it's a good time to talk or if they would mind talking to you later.

Using the catalog you should be able to figure out which dogs are shown by professional handlers, vs the owners/breeders and you'll have more luck talking to actual owners if you want information about the breed. The professional handlers probably have to run off to show another dog, and won't know much about the breed in general (though there are exceptions - we have a pro handler in my breed whose father was one of the top breeders in his day, so she's a great resource). You can check the dog's names and see if you recognize any local kennel names and then keep an eye out for those dogs.

ETA: Photography is perfectly fine. If you take nice pictures, you might even make friends with some owners/breeders if you take pictures of their dogs and they ask you to send them.
 

MicksMom

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#6
Frostfell gave some great advice. Additionally, I've picked up a little basic breed knowledge from people sitting ring side. Just like with handlers, tho, be courteous of those sitting ring side. Ask if they would mind answering a couple of questions, take your cue about when and how many questions to ask from them, etc. Also- buy a catalog when you get there, it will have ring times posted, as well as the names of dogs in each class and names and addresses of all the owners who have dogs entered in that show. I think each show has their own rules about photography, but I'm pretty sure non-flash is OK.
 

Romy

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#7
If you're sitting next to the ring don't eat real loud and drop food. Don't squeak toys. Try not to block the entrance to the ring.

Please don't bring dogs that aren't being shown and especially please don't let them off leash! lol. It seems like a no brainer, but this weekend at the Puyallup show Kaia got goosed by an off leash pointer mix puppy wearing a cone of shame! INSIDE THE SHOW PLEX. This was a crowded indoor show. I'm not even sure what made someone think that was a good idea to do.
 

Beanie

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Non-flash photography should be fine! Flash photography is usually a no-no because it can distract the dogs but there should be no problems with non-flash.

I agree with waiting until after group has been done and then you can find people and ask if they'd be willing to answer some questions about the breed. Be prepared for people to potentially be in a foul mood because they didn't do well in the ring, but most people are perfectly happy to talk dogs.

I will say that confirmation shelties are going to be a specific type versus, say, a sport or working sheltie. There are certain generalizations you can make about the breed, but other qualities are more common in one versus the other. If you can find somebody who does both or who produces dogs who do both - and performs successfully - that will be your best bet for finding a nice, well-rounded dog with a good temperament.
 

Elrohwen

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#10
I agree with waiting until after group has been done and then you can find people and ask if they'd be willing to answer some questions about the breed.
I would talk to people well before the herding group even goes in the ring. There will only be one dog of each breed going into the group ring, very likely with a professional handler, and most of the other breed people will have left for the day. I would catch them either well before their ring time (for the breed, not the group) when they're doing some grooming touch ups and hanging out, or after the breed ring.
 

Saeleofu

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#11
DONT touch a coated dog anywhere, before or after they go in the ring, unless the handler says its okay and theyre done for the day. some people can be downright nasty if you muss a 'do that took 6 hours to perfect
Don't touch ANY dog without the handler's permission, ever. That's just common dog etiquette, nothing to do with a show.


I agree with chatting a bit well before the breed goes in (unless they're in the ring ridiculously early) instead of after. At the shows I've been to, unless you have multiple dogs, people tend to leave when they're done, and only one dog will go on to group (well, maybe two, if there's and owner-handled competition, but it's a separate group). If there's a match after the show, you'll probably find more people staying. But typically at the end of a long day people are EXHAUSTED (and this is more true as the weekend goes on...). You might not have time to talk much before the dogs go in the ring, but just letting someone know you're interested in the breed and want to chat is a good idea, so they know to stay and wait for you afterwards.
 

Beanie

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I would talk to people well before the herding group even goes in the ring. There will only be one dog of each breed going into the group ring, very likely with a professional handler, and most of the other breed people will have left for the day. I would catch them either well before their ring time (for the breed, not the group) when they're doing some grooming touch ups and hanging out, or after the breed ring.
Everybody here usually stays through at least group! Mostly so they can talk )$*@ about the dog who wins. =P Although they always smile and congratulate people face-to-face...
 

Elrohwen

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Everybody here usually stays through at least group! Mostly so they can talk )$*@ about the dog who wins. =P Although they always smile and congratulate people face-to-face...
Interesting! Definitely not the case at the shows I've been to. Most people are packed up and out of there not too long after their breed is done. The times I've stayed through group the place was empty (especially on the last day of a cluster).

ETA: I should add that I'm typically local to the show and want to get home at the end of the day. Lots of other people in my breed tend to be local and do the same thing. I imagine if most people were staying in a hotel they would be more inclined to stick around.
 
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iriskai

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It's kind of hit and miss around here about staying or packing up. Depends on the show size, location, weather and which day of the cluster we're on. On Sundays people want to pack up and ship out. I like hanging around as long as there's a whippet or someone I know in the ring.

Staying for OHBIS on a Sunday is almost hilarious. There's hardly a soul around. The people who have stayed are watching regular BIS.
 

SoCrafty

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#15
I will say that confirmation shelties are going to be a specific type versus, say, a sport or working sheltie. There are certain generalizations you can make about the breed, but other qualities are more common in one versus the other. If you can find somebody who does both or who produces dogs who do both - and performs successfully - that will be your best bet for finding a nice, well-rounded dog with a good temperament.
Thank you for this comment. We have heard so many various things. Some places call them neurotic, snappy and bad with strangers and kids and our best bet to get a sane, well-rounded, calmer dog is a confirmation breeder. We will see who does performance dogs too and get the big picture :)

And thank you to everyone who has posted. I really appreciate it! Whoever mentioned the infodog thing, THANK YOU. I found what time the Rough and Smooth Collies are in the breed ring and what time Shelties were in the breed ring. We will have time to see both the Rough Collies and the Shelties.
 

Laurelin

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#17
Shelties are great dogs. I (and my sisters) were practically raised by them so I have no idea how they get labelled as being a bad choice for children.

There's a wide range of temperament in the breed but they shouldn't be neurotic or snappy. Some can be a bit shy around strangers but most I meet are kind of 'quietly friendly' and some are over the top friendly.

Our first two were just from pets that were bred together and our third came from show/sport lines. He was a little weird but I think it's more to do with him than the breed. Our first two were happy, outgoing, playful dogs. All three had very adaptable energy levels.
 

crazedACD

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Everybody here usually stays through at least group! Mostly so they can talk )$*@ about the dog who wins. =P Although they always smile and congratulate people face-to-face...
This is actually a good point...don't talk sheet ringside too much, you never know who you're sitting next to ;).
 

iriskai

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#19
Don't touch the shihtzus little updos.

Don't even look at them too hard lol
The updos melt if you stare too long.


This is actually a good point...don't talk sheet ringside too much, you never know who you're sitting next to ;).
This makes me LOL. I had a random woman approach me and Ezra in the vendor booths and start talking about how she didn't understand why the Whippet bitch that took breed did so, especially over the BOS Top 20 Whippet (with a big name handler). I let her ramble for a minute until she asked what I thought. I wish I could have had a picture of her face when I let her know that BOB Whippet was MINE with ME handling, she just happened to be napping before groups.
 

Beanie

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This is actually a good point...don't talk sheet ringside too much, you never know who you're sitting next to ;).
Haha, better yet, just don't talk *$@( period! Remember what Thumper's mom said, LOL. I do my best to keep my thoughts to myself at shows... they are my opinions so they stay with me, where they belong, haha.


As for neurotic shelties, I do think any herding breed is at high risk for being neurotic, but I wouldn't exactly call it normal in any given breed. Some people inadvertently encourage it, they find it cute or funny, or don't know how to break the cycle when a dog starts to get fixated and stop things before it becomes an issue. Like there's video out there of shelties "attacking" a vacuum cleaner and the people taking the video are laughing about it... or things like constant nervous spinning. I would say that you are more likely to find that neurotic behavior either in poorly bred situations with people who don't care at all about temperament OR in agility competitors who mistake that sort of thing for drive. They are not the same and I would posit a neurotic dog would be a poor worker, but there are sport breeders out there who are just trying to breed the most amped up, nutso things they can possibly get because they're "fast" on the course, and the result is a mess. You probably wouldn't end up with a dog from those sorts of breeders anyway because it's unlikely they would deign to sell one of their precious puppies to "just" a pet home anyway.

As for snappy, that's a downright fault and should not be present in the breed.

Shyness can be a thing. Pepper is the only one of our four, six if you count Happy and Kota, who is wary of strangers. Happy was afraid of other dogs but people were great. =P Many sheltie breeders, when selecting for temperament, don't accept shyness in their dogs though. I think the quote out of Sheltie Talk is something like "I have no use for a shy dog." All of mine also dig children, although Auggie took some training because he very much sees small running children as equivalent to sheep. The chase instinct is a thing with most dogs so I don't hold it against him. But kids coming up to him and patting him was never a problem, and he likes them because they usually smell of some variety of food items, haha.

In general going with confo only lines will produce a quieter, calmer, more couch-potato type sheltie though. I like to see (successful) performance involved because it proves the dog still has a brain - I unfortunately know some confirmation dogs who are just not very bright. They can be quirky and funny and silly and do things that make you say "oh my gosh, you're so stupid" - but the extreme "dumb as a box of rocks" isn't a descriptor I think belongs on any breed LOL, let alone shelties. It's certainly not all confo dogs! But I do know several lines that are just plain not bright. Cute, very nice dogs in every other way, but the lights are on and nobody's home. So when researching lines I like to see some proof of a good, working brain.

As always it all comes down to the lines and the individual dogs in question though!
 

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