Another Mill - Poms

LappieLover

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#2
Yes, there are merle pomeranians. They come in almost any color combination you can imagine, including wolf sable and "regular" sable (similar to what we think of as a traditional coloring for collies).
 

bubbatd

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#3
Ah yes .... yet another flashy site to impress people . Flashsy prices too ! Yuck !!!
 

FoxyWench

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#4
merle poms are allowed in standard...

definatly a mill, prices reflect, shame because some of those pups are absoluty gorgoeus in face and thats what will sell them
 

stevinski

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#6
its a horrible place, but you have to admit, the merle poms are absolutely stunning!
 

Fran27

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#7
Yeah I remember seeing that site when I was looking at poms breeder... So expensive, and they're selling their females for $800 for breeding, and to 'small hobby breeders only'... plus no health testing, maybe three of the parents were shown... Ugh!!!!!!

But gosh they are cute :(
 

Lilavati

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#9
Those merle poms are really, really cool. I want one. Alas, I doubt I will ever find one from someone I'd care to buy a dog from.

That said, I'm going to make a statement that is sure to get me flamed. Taking her site at face value (i.e. construing the evidence in a manner most favorable to the defendant) . . . well, there's a lot worse out there. As a resident of VA, we've seen a lot of the worst the past few weeks.

I'm beginning to think that places like this are . . . well, inevitable, and as things go, not so bad . . .

WAIT! Don't flame yet!

I am a firm supporter of responsible breeding, health testing, breeding for some purpose other than money making. . . but . . .

People want dogs. They want purebred dogs. They often want very special purebred dogs of a certain color (whether its a real color or not). No ammount of education is going to get most people to join a waiting list for a puppy from a responsible breeder, or even do the legwork to find a responsible breeder. This is a culture of instant gratification. Sure, if there's a responsible breeder in the area who has a litter (and I don't think they ALL have to have waiting lists) they'll be happy to purchase there. But they want their dog, and they want it now and they want EXACTLY the dog they want.

That said, I'd rather have people like this, who raise their dogs in clean conditions, who give health tips and warnings about genetic diseases (no health testing, but perhaps she's not had any overt problems, that leaves you with DNA tests, which are expensive). This seems to be how she makes her living, not a hobby for a few extra bucks. Yes, I'd rather have her out there, providing puppies to the ignorant and impatient, than the horror shows we saw in VA, or even many of the BYBs, who don't know a dang thing about dogs. With that many dogs its hard to believe this lady hasn't learned something.

She's a liscensed kennel . . .that means she's inspected and regulated. Good. I'd much prefer that to people doing this in secret. And someone will do it. There's too much money to be made. We may have to accept that this sort of thing will go on . . . it can go on with people who seem to at least rather like their breed and care fairly well for their dogs . . . or it can go on in the backs of barns, in tiny filthy cages, in secret. But it will go on.

Will I buy a dog from her? No. Will I recommend someone buy a dog from her? No. Will I shrug if someone does and say, well, you coulda done worse? Yep.
 

Sweet72947

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#10
She's a liscensed kennel . . .that means she's inspected and regulated. Good.
*snort* the USDA does not have the time or resources to inspect and regulate everybody, nor is it at the top of their priority list. Here are a few links on the subject (I had to do some deep googling to find the good stuff that is not on PETA, HSUS or the like, because I know how people on here don't trust them):

USDA: Who Does it Really Protect? Not the Dogs!

Performance Audit of Animal Care Facilities Inspection Program

Follow Up Review of Animal Care Facilities Inspection Program

And you can obtain real USDA inspection reports if you want, but it costs a fee.
 

Fran27

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#11
I agree with Lilavati to an extent... It's almost impossible to find good breeders sometimes. When I was looking for a newfie I contacted the best breeders of PA and never even got a reply from most of them. I was going to get on the list for a pup and see the parents 4 months later, then got an email saying they were not going to breed for another year at least, and sent me to another breeder who never contacted me back... When I looked at good pom breeders in the nearby states I couldn't find any.

I totally understand that some people don't want to wait, especially if they are ignorant of breeding practices, and let's face it BYBs will always answer your emails. I'm lucky that I like big dogs and they are easy to find in rescues, but for people who wants small dogs... BYBs are unfortunately the easiest choice, and I think it beats pet store pups...
 

Lilavati

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#12
*snort* the USDA does not have the time or resources to inspect and regulate everybody, nor is it at the top of their priority list. Here are a few links on the subject (I had to do some deep googling to find the good stuff that is not on PETA, HSUS or the like, because I know how people on here don't trust them):

USDA: Who Does it Really Protect? Not the Dogs!

Performance Audit of Animal Care Facilities Inspection Program

Follow Up Review of Animal Care Facilities Inspection Program

And you can obtain real USDA inspection reports if you want, but it costs a fee.
No, its not all that great. But its better than nothing. And often local kennel laws are stricter. If you've been watching the news, we've seen "nothing" recently here in VA. Of course, they rarely actually do inspect, and some of their regulations are idiotic . . . but the solution is to tighten up the regulations (and make them sensible) and have more inspections . . that's a problem across the board with all animal facilities . . . whether its pet dogs or the animals you eat.

Besides, since I am taking this woman's assertions at face value, I'll assume she meets and exceeds the USDA requirements. Its not like its hard, as you pointed out. And I'd rather have the pathetic USDA regulations than breeding operations go underground . . .
 

Lilavati

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#14
Every State has their Breed Clubs and screens breeders .
Of course they do, and that would be my first suggestion to someone looking for a puppy.

Don't mistake me. This is not the best way to get a dog, its not even a good way. But the nature of our culture, and probably of people in general, is such that they will not be willing to jump through the hoops

(And there can be a lot of hoops . . . I know someone who can not get a German Shepherd puppy because she has a six year old child. No rescue or shelter will adopt to her, and no reputable breeder in the area will sell because of the kid. Fortunatley, she said she'd wait rather than get a dog from a mill . . . but most people have neither that much sense or that much patience. In fact, many people would be so ticked off that they'd get a puppy from a pet store just to spite the 'breeders')

and wait the time required to get a puppy from a responsible breeder. Therefore, they will buy from other sources. My only point is I'd rather see operations like this then the horrific, filithy conditions that tend to prevail when breeding operations go underground. I'd also rather see this than a lot of BYBs who are just utterly clueless. As long as the demand is there someone will fill it. We can protest all we want . . but the demand will be filled . . . My only point is on the great scale of filling the demand of the ignorant for puppies, I'd rather see this kind of operation (assuming the woman is honest on her website) than many other kinds.

Its sort of like abortions (more flames!) I'd rather they not happen at all, (I'd rather they not need to happen!) but if they are going to happen (and they will) I'd rather it be in a doctor's office than a back alley.
 

Vivien

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#15
I didn't have much time to look at the site so I don'y have an opinion yet. However, where does she get her prices from ...from what I saw the puppies ranged from 500-2500. Does she pull the price out of a hat?? Lol
At least the people that but these dogs have the money to care for them.
 

Lilavati

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#16
I didn't have much time to look at the site so I don'y have an opinion yet. However, where does she get her prices from ...from what I saw the puppies ranged from 500-2500. Does she pull the price out of a hat?? Lol
At least the people that but these dogs have the money to care for them.
That's pretty much the going rate for 'special' puppies .. . interpret 'special' in whatever sense you want.

Or just call it the market price . . . what people are willing to pay.
 

Sweet72947

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#18
Of course they do, and that would be my first suggestion to someone looking for a puppy.

Don't mistake me. This is not the best way to get a dog, its not even a good way. But the nature of our culture, and probably of people in general, is such that they will not be willing to jump through the hoops

(And there can be a lot of hoops . . . I know someone who can not get a German Shepherd puppy because she has a six year old child. No rescue or shelter will adopt to her, and no reputable breeder in the area will sell because of the kid. Fortunatley, she said she'd wait rather than get a dog from a mill . . . but most people have neither that much sense or that much patience. In fact, many people would be so ticked off that they'd get a puppy from a pet store just to spite the 'breeders')

and wait the time required to get a puppy from a responsible breeder. Therefore, they will buy from other sources. My only point is I'd rather see operations like this then the horrific, filithy conditions that tend to prevail when breeding operations go underground. I'd also rather see this than a lot of BYBs who are just utterly clueless. As long as the demand is there someone will fill it. We can protest all we want . . but the demand will be filled . . . My only point is on the great scale of filling the demand of the ignorant for puppies, I'd rather see this kind of operation (assuming the woman is honest on her website) than many other kinds.

Its sort of like abortions (more flames!) I'd rather they not happen at all, (I'd rather they not need to happen!) but if they are going to happen (and they will) I'd rather it be in a doctor's office than a back alley.
I understand what you're saying, and agree partially.

As a sidenote, if your friend is still willing to consider rescue, tell her to check out foha.org. We adopt to families with kids of all ages, and we have a few nice GSDs right now. ;)
 

Lilavati

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#19
I'll definately forward it to her . . . I"ve looked at your site before . . . You do good work :D Didn't know about the kids rule! That's great that someone still does that.
 

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