Am I the only practicing Catholic on this forum??

Kayzhond

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#41
I do not believe in too many of her rules and as some have posted are you really a good Catholic if you follow the ones that please you and not all of them ?
I don't believe in everything the Catholic Church teaches nor do I follow all of the rules to the letter either, however, I don't think that makes me any less Catholic than those who do. Nor, does it make me a bad Catholic.

I'm sure there's Protestants out there who don't believe everything their denomination teaches nor follows all of its rules either YET truly is grounded in their denomination and is quite happy to be Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc... . Does that make them any less Protestant than those who do? Does it make them a bad a Protestant? IMHO, no. It doesn't. It just means they're trying to be the best Protestant they can be and God loves them for trying hard and just as hard as I try to be the best Catholic I can be.
 

Kayzhond

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#42
Prayer - Prayer To God vs. Prayer To Mary and The Saints

As it's already been pointed out, we DO pray directly to God.

However, there's nothing wrong with praying to Mary or the Saints and asking them to intercede on our behalf. After all, Protestants pray for others (their families, their friends, their congregations, the unsaved, etc...) and are intercessors for those people when they pray directly to God on their behalf to make them well, to make them better, to help them get a promotion, to help save them, etc... .

If Protesants can act as an intercessor through direct prayer to God, then why can't Mary and the Saints act as a direct intercessor for God too? Granted, Mary and the Saints are deadm however, Catholic tradition teaches that they are very much alive in Heaven just as much as a Protestant is alive here on Earth.

I think it's wrong for Protestants to tell Catholic they can't have an deceased intercessor who prays directly to God when they themselves use a living intecessor who prays directly to God on their behalf. If intercession is that bad, then Protestants should pray for themselves to get well, to get better, to get that promotion, etc... instead of asking a pastor to pray for those things as well!

Anyhow, I hope this clears up the whole prayer thing just a bit.
 

Kayzhond

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#43
Good Deeds and Bible As Only Source of Authority

The Protestants believe that you can't do anything to earn your way to Heaven and that Good deeds are an outward sign of having been saved. However, I beg to differ.

I don't believe everyone is guaranteed a place in Heaven all because they say a prayer and accept in the Lord Jesus Christ as their personnal Lord and Savior. I just don't buy the fact that getting into Heaven is THAT easy.

And I disagree that we can't do anything to earn our way into Heaven. The book of James (Chaper 2) talks about how Abraham was justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar. In fact, James 2:24 reads: See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And please don't tell me some BS about how it doesn't read a person't isn't justified by works because that's EXACTLY what it reads!!!

Martin Luther, John Calvin, and other reformers wanted to actually EXPELL (remove) the book of James from the Bible because it was so heavily centered on works and how our works are justified IN ADDITION TO our faith. However, some of their followers fought them on that and won and were able to keep the book of James in the Bible.

Additionally, the book of Revelation also tells us that we will be judged according to our deeds. Revelation 20:9-15 reads: Next I saw a large white throne and the one who was sitting on it. The earth and the sky fled from his presence and there was no place for them. I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls. The sea gave up its dead; then Death and Hades gave up their dead. All the dead were judged according to their deeds. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the pool of fire. (This pool of fire is the second death.) Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the pool of fire (i.e. HELL).

I also don't believe that the Bible is the ONLY source of authority. Where in the Bible does it say this? I'll give $1,000 to someone who can find me a line of text in the Bible that reads: The Bible is the only source of authority. I can guarantee that no one will ever get this $1,000 from me because such a line in the Bible DOESN'T even exist!

Those who believe that the Bible is the only authority usually will quote from 2 Timothy 3:16 to support their view. The verse says "All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness" However, the word "useful" does not imply "sufficiency" or "authority". The verse only shows Scripture divine origin and its usefulness, but neither its authority and nor its sufficiency. In addition 2 Timothy 3:15 also shows that what Paul meant with Scripture is Old Testament books. During Timothy's childhood, none of New Testament books, including his epistles (the first to be written) existed, or only Old Testament books were known to Timothy.
 

Boemy

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#44
I was a practicing Catholic for about 23 years, but have a natural tendency towards agnosticism, so now I'm a lapsed Catholic. Also, I hate going to mass. I've always hated it. Not for any particular reason, it just never did anything fulfilling for me. My brother-in-law and sister are the closest thing you can get to "fundie" Catholics as you can get, and that really finished driving me away from the church.

I did go through 12 years of Catholic schooling. Loathed the grade school (those kids were rich little snots), loved the high school.

I don't have any particular problem with the Catholic church in general, although I'm really unimpressed by the new pope. He's an ass, IMO. That and the fact that the church moves ridiculously slowly on some ideas. C'mon, still condemning homosexuality and contraceptives? (I disagree that the Church's "reasoning" behind these make sense, and I'm well versed in the reasoning, I can assure you.) I suppose it will take another thousand years to get anywhere, just like the apology to Galileo.

Aussie Red said:
If babies are gifts from God why do they have to be baptized right away in the event of their deaths ? They should be innocent right. Not according to Catholic doctrine they will not go to heaven they go to Limbo. That never set well with me as did many other things. ..
Aussie, limbo hasn't been part of the church's beliefs for quite a while. I think since Vatican II. :)

Edit: No, Catholics do not worship Mary or the saints. The saints are prayed to for intercession because they often seem more approachable and human than God. Sure, Catholics believe Jesus was human, but did he ever go through childbirth? No. Lose both his legs? No. But there are patron saints of childbirth and . . . limb loss, probably . . . whom Catholics can pray to.

Really, it's no different than when people say, "Oh no, [terrible event] happened to me, please pray for me." It's exactly like that, except in this case the people praying for you are dead.
 
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Kayzhond

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#45
Really, it's no different than when people say, "Oh no, [terrible event] happened to me, please pray for me." It's exactly like that, except in this case the people praying for you are dead.
...are dead AND very much alive in Heaven. This needs to be tacked on to that so that people truly make that connection.
 

Barb04

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#46
Raised a catholic, but when my "x" divorced me after 20 years of marriage to be with his secretary, I can no longer receive all the sacraments in the church or get married in the church again. This is why I am NO longer a practicing catholic. I should be punished because my "x" cheated! I now pray in my own way.
 

M&M's Mommy

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#47
Raised a catholic, but when my "x" divorced me after 20 years of marriage to be with his secretary, I can no longer receive all the sacraments in the church or get married in the church again. This is why I am NO longer a practicing catholic. I should be punished because my "x" cheated! I now pray in my own way.
It's not right. I never heard of a person being discommunicated with the Church because he/she is divorced. Maybe the rules have changed after Vatican II. (I was born after Vatican II, so I don't know anything that preceeded it, even though I have a book that discussed the changes that is a zillion pages long I haven't read yet).

If, this is the only reason why you're no longer a practicing Catholic, and that you still want to be one. I strongly urge you to meet with a local priest to discuss your returning to the Church. I'm sure you'll be welcomed back with open arms & hearts.
 

Kayzhond

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#48
Raised a catholic, but when my "x" divorced me after 20 years of marriage to be with his secretary, I can no longer receive all the sacraments in the church or get married in the church again. This is why I am NO longer a practicing catholic. I should be punished because my "x" cheated! I now pray in my own way.
Have you considered an annulement?

Quite honestly, my mom was divorced twice and annuled once (after her first failed marriage) and is very much a practicing Catholic who receives all of the sacraments and can get married in the Church again if she so chooses to.
 

Kayzhond

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#49
By the way, I'm glad to be here M&M's Mommy. I'll try to help you out as best I can. My mom is much better at apologetics than I am! For the record, she and I both teach CCD (Catechism) to 4th graders at our local parish so she and I are a wealth of information on Catholicism.

If anyone wants to PM me about stuff regarding Catholicism - please do!
 

Whisper

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#50
When I lived with my grandparents I was raised going to a Catholic church, etc. I broke away from that, though. I just disagree with too much for it to set right with me. Most organied religions are like that with me.
I'm curious as to why sex before marriage is a sin? My intention is not to start a huge debate. I'm just genuinely curious. You can PM if you want.
 

M&M's Mommy

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#51
When I lived with my grandparents I was raised going to a Catholic church, etc. I broke away from that, though. I just disagree with too much for it to set right with me. Most organied religions are like that with me.
I'm curious as to why sex before marriage is a sin? My intention is not to start a huge debate. I'm just genuinely curious. You can PM if you want.
Sex Outside Marriage

Nowhere has Christian morality come under greater attack than in the whole area of sex outside marriage. The Biblical teaching that sex is only for marriage does not even enter the thinking of most people today. The Biblical condemnation of illicit sexual acts has become for many a license for sexual experimentation. The popular acceptance of sexual permissiveness is evidenced by the introduction and use of "softer terms." Fornication, for example, is referred to as "pre-marital sex" with the accent on the "pre" rather than on the "marital." Adultery is now called "extra-marital sex," implying an additional experience like some extra-professional activities. Homosexuality has gradually been softened from serious perversion through "deviation" to "gay variation." Pornographic literature and films are now available to "mature audiences" or "adults."

More and more, Christians are giving in to the specious argument that "Love makes it right." If a man and a woman are deeply and genuinely in love, they have the right to express their love through sexual union without marriage. Some contend that pre-marital sex releases people from their inhibitions and moral hangups, giving them a sense of emotional freedom. The truth of the matter is that pre-marital sex adds emotional pressure because it reduces sexual love to a purely physical level without the total commitment of two married people.

Biblical Condemnation

The Biblical condemnation of sexual relations before or outside marriage is abundantly clear. Adultery, or sexual intercourse between married women or married men and someone other than their marital partners, is condemned as a serious sin. Not only is adultery forbidden in both versions of the Decalogue (Ex 20:14; Deut 5:18), but it was also punishable by death in ancient Israel: "If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death" (Lev 20:10; cf. 18:20; Deut 22:22-24). The same punishment was meted out to a man or a woman who engaged in pre-marital sex (Deut 22:13-21, 23-27).

The New Testament goes beyond the Old Testament by internalizing the whole sexuality of a person and placing it within the context of motivation. Jesus emphasized that to entertain lustful desires toward a person of the opposite sex outside marriage means to be guilty of adultery (Matt 5:27-28). The reason for this is that defilement comes not only from outward acts but also from inward thoughts, which in Biblical symbology derive from the heart: "Out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man" (Matt 15:19-20).

Sexual laxness was pervasive in the Greco-Roman world of New Testament times. Hence, one of the conditions the Jerusalem council made for the inclusion of the Gentiles in the Christian Church was that they should abstain from all forms of "unchastity" (Acts 15:20,29). Paul's letters reveal the difficulties the apostle had in leading Gentile converts away from sexual immorality. To the Thessalonians, he wrote: "For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from unchastity; that each of you know how to take a wife for himself in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like heathen who do not know God" (1 Thess 4:2-5).

Here Paul admonishes those who had sexual urges to satisfy them by entering not into temporary relationships "in the passion of lust like the heathen who do not know God," but into permanent marital relationships. Such relationships are to be characterized by "holiness and honor." Paul is most explicit in his condemnation of prostitution. He asks the Corinthians who lived in the celebrated sex center of the Mediterranean world: "Do you now know that he who joins himself to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, 'The two shall become one flesh.' But he who is unified to the Lord becomes one spirit with Him. Shun immorality. Every other sin which a man commits is outside the body; but the immoral man sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body" (1 Cor 6:16-20).

Reasons for Condemnation

In this passage, Paul helps us to see why the Bible strongly condemns sex outside marriage. Sex represents the most intimate of all interpersonal relationships, expressing a "one-flesh" unity of total commitment. Such a unity of commitment cannot be expressed or experienced in a casual sexual union with a prostitute where the concern is purely commercial and recreational. The only oneness experienced in such sexual unions is the oneness of sexual immorality. Sexual immorality is serious because it affects the individual more deeply and permanently than any other sin. Paul describes it as a sin committed inside the body: "Every other sin which a man commits is outside the body; but the immoral man sins against his own body" (1 Cor 6:18).

It might be objected that all sins of sensuality such as gluttony or drunkenness affect a person inside the body. Yet they do not have the same permanent effect on the personality as the sin of fornication. Indulgence in eating or drinking can be overcome, stolen goods can be returned, lies can be retracted and replaced by the truth. But the sexual act, once committed with another person, cannot be undone. A radical change has taken place in the interpersonal relationship of the couple involved that can never be undone. Something indelible has stamped on them both forever. Even with a prostitute, sexual union leaves its permanent mark. It is a spot in the consciousness that cannot be removed. "The immoral man sins against his own body."

This truth is openly rejected by those who regard pre-marital sex not as sinful, but as helpful to a satisfactory sexual adjustment in marriage. Some even believe that sexual relations with the person one intends to marry are necessary to guarantee sexual compatibility. Such attitudes fail to recognize that sexual intercourse before marriage is the worst possible preparation for marriage. The reasons for this are not difficult to discover.

Sex Without Commitment

To begin with, sex before marriage is sex without commitment. If we do not like our partners, we can change and find somebody else. Such casual relationships destroy the integrity of the person by reducing it to an object to be used for personal gratification. Some, who feel hurt and used after sexual encounters, may withdraw altogether from sexual activity for fear of being used again or may decide to use their bodies selfishly, without regard to the feeling of others. Either way, our sexuality is distorted because it destroys the possibility of using it to relate genuinely and intimately toward the one we love. Sex cannot be used as a means for fun with one partner at one time and as a way to express genuine love and commitment with another partner at another time.

Those who become accustomed to a variety of sexual partners will find it difficult, if not impossible, to express through sex their total commitment and final intimacy to their marital partners. Engaged couples will probably deny that when they sleep together they are not expressing genuine commitment to one another. But if they were fully and finally committed to each other, they would be married. Engagement is the preparation for marriage, but it is not marriage. Until the wedding vows are taken, the possibility of breaking up a relationship exists. If a couple has had intercourse together, they have compromised their relationship. Any subsequent break up will leave permanent emotional scars.

It is only when we are willing to become one, not only verbally but also legally by assuming responsibility for our partners, that we can seal our relationships through sexual intercourse. In this setting, sex fittingly expresses the ultimate commitment and the final intimacy. Marriage licenses and wedding ceremonies are not mere formalities but serve to formalize the marriage commitment. As Elizabeth Achtemeier explains: "Just the fact that such young people [living together] are hesitant legally to seal their union is evidence that their commitment to one another is not total. Marriage licenses and ceremonies are not only legal formalities; they are also symbols of responsibility. They say publicly, what is affirmed privately, without reservation, that I am responsible for my mate - responsible not only in all those lovely emotional and spiritual areas of married life, but responsible also in the down-to-earth areas that have to do with grubby things like money, health insurance, and property.

For example, two people just living together have no obligation for each other when the tax form comes up for an audit, or the other is involved in a car accident and legal suit; but persons holding a marriage license do have such responsibility, and commitment to a marriage involves accepting that public responsibility too. It is a matter of accepting the full obligations that society imposes on its adult members in order to ensure the common good."

Excerpt from SEX OUTSIDE MARRIAGE: A BIBLICAL VIEW
by Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph.D., Prof. of Theology, Andrews University
 

DoggyDaze

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#53
Excerpt from SEX OUTSIDE MARRIAGE: A BIBLICAL VIEW
by Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph.D., Prof. of Theology, Andrews University
Written by people who believed the world was flat for consumption by nomadic goat herders.
 

Buddy'sParents

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#54
Written by people who believed the world was flat for consumption by nomadic goat herders.
You've made it clear that you do not appreciate any form of religion, but I sure wish you were respectful of those that do. Please think twice before hitting submit.
 
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#55
Twelve years of Catholic school and no longer practicing here, too. I think some of it had to do with all the nonsense I was fed by nuns in elementary school. I remember being in trouble a lot for asking too many questions. Actually, it was asking the same question too many times ... "Um - When exactly did God say that?"
 

M&M's Mommy

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#56
Twelve years of Catholic school and no longer practicing here, too. I think some of it had to do with all the nonsense I was fed by nuns in elementary school. I remember being in trouble a lot for asking too many questions. Actually, it was asking the same question too many times ... "Um - When exactly did God say that?"
LOL.

I remembered asking the same question, too. But, my parents were too good. They pointed me to the exact passage from the Bible every time! :)

I think the seed of faith was planted in each of us at birth, but it's our own responsibility to make it grow. While I'm very thankful to my parents for instilling in me the Catholic faith, it was through the years of learning about God, the Catholic Church & their teachings, and through my own development that faith takes root & becomes such an important part of my life. Therefore, to me, God is no longer who my parents, or the priests, nuns, or anybody else said He is, but He is someone I am blessed to know in a deeper, more personal level.
 

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#57
Interesting thread !! Let's not forget that all Christian religions have trickled down from the Catholic faith . I was raised an Anglican in Canada ......basically laid back Catholics ! Here I consider myself a none practicing low Episcopalian . I feel we all need something to believe in and to pray to ..... whether in the Lord's house or our own home . I wish that there was more religion in schools .......all children have to have something to basically live a sin free life or to have enough conscience to ask for forgiveness when led astray . Killings , stealing , aborted babies , etc would all be gone if all would go by the 10 commandments .
 

Kayzhond

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#58
Let's not forget that all Christian religions have trickled down from the Catholic faith.
Without Catholics, Protestants wouldn't exist. Instead of hating Catholics, they should be thankful we exist. :D

I think it's interesting that 2 men (Martin Luther and John Calvin) can just come along after hundreds of years (if not thousands), decide that one or more teachings of the Catholic church are wrong simply because they don't like them and feel they're wrong, and just yank books out of the Bible like they did to start a constent split of one Protestant denomination to another so that you now have several hundred of them that all can't agree on anything EXCEPT the fact they hate the Catholic Church and believe we're a cult or a bunch of heathens destined to hell because we're not saved and born again. What a coincidence!

I guess Martin Luther and John Calvin totally missed passage in the Bible that specifically says there's to be no divisions among the Church and that we should all be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

What a strange way to form one's beliefs: based on 2 men rather than consistent witness of the Church.
 

Boemy

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#59
Well, frankly I don't blame Martin Luther for being fed up with the church at that point. It was a bloated and corrupt monstrosity. The monks were rich and had brothels in their monastery and avoided St. Benedict's "don't eat meat" rule by always eating in the infirmary. (Monks in the infirmary were allowed to eat meat for their health, according to St. Benedict's rules.) Forming an alternate version of Christianity was about the only way Martin Luther could have had any reforms, because the original church surely wasn't interested as long as it had enough money and whores.

Also, Protestantism was not the first split-away sect by a long shot. Just the first one that didn't get slaughtered.
 

mrose_s

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#60
M&M's Mommy, whats your beliefs on Mary Magdelan (sp?) I know very little about her except for some minor research. I don't mean to cause an argument or anything but i wanna see it formt he other side.

I've never been religious, wasn't baptised as my mother wanted me to be able to decide later on if i wanted to be or not.

I havn't kept an eye on this thread but now i wish i had
 

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