Agility people: how did you teach 2 on 2 off contact? I will admit I'm probably unrealistic, but given how quickly Louis has caught on to everything else I've asked him I'm surprised he isn't getting this. I've had a couple of sessions with him - getting him to walk to the end of a board (about 3 inches off ground), then targeting my hand enough in front of the board that he has to step off with 2 feet. I click, and place a treat in my target hand on the ground. He's totally not getting that the position is what I want. Maybe I need a higher object for him to step off? That might make him more aware of his body position. Thoughts?
Agility contacts
- Thread starter StompinT
- Start date
DJEtzel
Active Member
I shaped this on a pause table a few inches off the ground, then shaped it with a slight lure on the dog walk. I worked him from higher and higher up on the dog walk, and then started working over it.
I had a ton of success and was making great progress, then we stopped practicing.
I had a ton of success and was making great progress, then we stopped practicing.
BostonBanker
Active Member
Gusto's 2o2o is pretty rock solid - I was super proud of how well I'd trained it, although it is turning into a major pain as I'm currently trying to break it and he is convinced I'm just proofing him!
I wouldn't be using my hand target to get him off the board; it makes the focus (for him) your hand and not his feet. You want him to think about what he's doing with his feet, not think about reaching to target your hand. If he doesn't already have the skill, I'd be doing a lot of rear-end awareness exercises away from anything resembling equipment. Teach him to offer swinging his back feet up (or backing up on to) things like books and boxes and pillows. Make sure he understands that he can move his back feet and that moving them on to things brings rewards. I'd then move it to a board; not running the length, but just backing/swinging on to it like you did with the other objects. If you are going to use a verbal cue for the contact, that's when I'd introduce it.
Once that's easy, I'd hold him by his collar/chest just foot or so before the end of the plank. Get him amped up a bit and pulling on you, then release him as you give your verbal cue for the contact (or not, if you aren't using a verbal cue). If he moves into the position, jackpot the heck out of him, give a release cue, and have a party. If he doesn't get it after a try or two, go back to working just the end of the plank and get that stronger.
Eventually work up to adding more distance on the plank, more duration to the time you ask him to hold it.
I know there's a million roads to achieving a nice 2o2o; that's what worked for me with Gusto.
I wouldn't be using my hand target to get him off the board; it makes the focus (for him) your hand and not his feet. You want him to think about what he's doing with his feet, not think about reaching to target your hand. If he doesn't already have the skill, I'd be doing a lot of rear-end awareness exercises away from anything resembling equipment. Teach him to offer swinging his back feet up (or backing up on to) things like books and boxes and pillows. Make sure he understands that he can move his back feet and that moving them on to things brings rewards. I'd then move it to a board; not running the length, but just backing/swinging on to it like you did with the other objects. If you are going to use a verbal cue for the contact, that's when I'd introduce it.
Once that's easy, I'd hold him by his collar/chest just foot or so before the end of the plank. Get him amped up a bit and pulling on you, then release him as you give your verbal cue for the contact (or not, if you aren't using a verbal cue). If he moves into the position, jackpot the heck out of him, give a release cue, and have a party. If he doesn't get it after a try or two, go back to working just the end of the plank and get that stronger.
Eventually work up to adding more distance on the plank, more duration to the time you ask him to hold it.
I know there's a million roads to achieving a nice 2o2o; that's what worked for me with Gusto.
Beanie
Clicker Cult Coordinator
I agree with this.
I shaped it but instead of teaching to put two back feet onto the board, I taught to drop the front two feet off the board. Then I similarly back-chained from there driving into the position at the end of the board further and further back. More or less the same idea, but I wonder if teaching to put the two back feet on instead of dropping the two front feet off doesn't help teach it a bit more with hind-end awareness?
PWCorgi
Priscilla Winifred Corgi
Beanie
Clicker Cult Coordinator
So did you shape it back-feet on, or front-feet off?
I'm legit curious about this LOL. Like I'm going to intentionally train my next puppy back-feet on and see if it appears to make any difference. Unfortunately my control is, uh, Payton, so. SKEWED RESULTS.
BostonBanker
Active Member
I would think that is a true statement. For me, I was so focused on various hind-end awareness exercises that it was simply easier to focus on his back feet. To this day, Gusto's initial response to anything new that appears during training is "Can I put my back feet on it?". (No, you can't put your back feet on the weave poles, but I do enjoy watching him try.) So it was more a progression of skills we already had, than a deliberate training decision to do Back Feet On.
I used a target for Meg's 2o2o, with it placed carefully so that it required her to take her front feet off the obstacle to reach it. I can't really use it as a case study, because I was terrible about maintaining criteria in the ring, and it is really more of an assisted 2o2o.
k9krazee
Active Member
With Crossbone I started with a laundry basket and lured him up and over and as soon as his front feet hit the ground I would click/treat. So I guess I started rewarding front feet off the basket. When he was doing well on that I would make the object smaller and smaller until he actually had to work to keep/put his back feet on the object. We practiced everywhere --- steps, boxes, planks of wood, etc. and it became just amother trick. He has generalized it really well and even though we have running contacts he will "2 on" if I cue it.
One problem I've seen with teaching a dog to target with their back feet is they will run off the contact & then back up on it.
One problem I've seen with teaching a dog to target with their back feet is they will run off the contact & then back up on it.
PWCorgi
Priscilla Winifred Corgi
Back feet on.
*Edit: Actually, I will say both. I was teaching the beginnings of a hand stand at the same time, so I think she was better at back feet on, but I certainly rewarded if she came over an item and only front feet came off.
PWCorgi
Priscilla Winifred Corgi
Siri had this issue, but it extinguished fairly quickly when she didn't get rewarded for it, and I'd make her do the obstacle again. But she also just has slowing down/stopping issues in general, so I don't know that teaching only front feet off would have helped that much. At this point she has a pretty steady 2o2o, and only blows it when we are proofing with a tunnel as the next obstacle. We're working on that
My trainer is having us do a running A-frame because she thinks Siri will get super frustrated by having to stop at the bottom. The only thing she is really, really good at stopping on is the teeter, she likes the way it slams (she drives to the end, and rides down on the contact zone), and always waits for a release.
BostonBanker
Active Member
Gusto did that a few times early on - mostly on the teeter actually, when he was uncomfortable with it, and trying to find a balance between bailing as quickly as possible and still trying to hit the criteria. Nothing as cute as watching him handstand and reach around with a back foot to try and capture the rising see saw!
I think with the rear foot targeting you sometimes get the 'going to far and backing up', and with the front feet targeting you get more of the 'stopping with four on and needing another cue or moment to finish'. And both are fixable if you catch them early.
krissy
New Member
I just took the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) approach. :rofl1: I taught a nose target to a Tupperware lid. Then I put the target at the end of contact obstacles and rewarded for standing at the end doing nose touches. Then worked on driving for the target. Then removed the target and asked for nose touch to the ground. And then proofed. Now I just reward for position with no nose touch.
Definitely lots of fun ways to teach this though! I'm having fun reading about some of the other methods!
Definitely lots of fun ways to teach this though! I'm having fun reading about some of the other methods!
This is what we are starting with Hank. He's the first dog I've ever had to think about contacts with. My trainer said with his size he could go either way as far as stopped vs running contacts but I think I am going to need some sort of break/pause available to actually run him in competition. I just can't keep up.