A few easy clicker questions

[Tracer Tong]

Hey guys, I just got a snapple lid to use as a clicker and I've successfully gotten the click associated with the treat. A few quick questions:

At what point is it okay to start using the clicker as a marker for behaviours that are already fairly well established? For instance, my puppy knows down pretty well. Is it okay to start using a click as a marker for when he's down? Or now that he has it would that be a step backwards except in situations of greater distance or distraction?

How well can dogs hear the sound of a clicking snapple lid? Could they hear it by the side of a busy road? For that matter how well can dogs hear me say their name? Could they hear it by the side of a busy road?

And finally, at what point is it okay to start weening out the clicker and moving to a variable reinforcement schedule for behaviours that are pretty well established?

Can you tell I've been reading? I can throw terms around with ease now. Thanks for all your help guys. You're all the best and I owe a large part of my successs so far as a dog owner/trainer to you guys. Thanks again.

 

[Doberluv]

Once a behavior is learned and the verbal cue is established, you don't use the clicker for that behavior anymore. It's for learning new behaviors. Once you get about 95% reliability with the behavior, you can start a variable reward schedule. So, no...it wouldn't be a step backwards but it wouldn't make any difference once he knows the cue and behavior very well and is giving it to you very reliably. The point of the clicker is to tell him he just did the right thing when he's still learning and not sure. Once he knows what the right things is, (and knows it well) you don't have to mark it....or tell him all the time, but do need to reinforce variably.

Yes, it would be good to use it when you're adding in a few distractions and distance etc...because to him, those things would be new.

I wouldn't know if your dog can hear the snapple lid or not. That's something you'd have to determine. If he looks expectantly at you when you click, like, "Oh! goody! Treat? Treat?" Then you can be pretty sure he's hearing and making the connection. Is there some reason you don't want to use a regular clicker? They're pretty darn noticeable with the sound they make. Do you have to carry around the Snapple (glass) bottle or does the lid pop in and out? The clicker is probably louder.....I'm guessing. Or you can use a verbal marker, a word you don't use for anything else. However, I think the clicker is much more distinctive. It just depends on your enjoyment of it. Sometimes It's a hassle to carry it around, juggling treats and leash etc. So, that's just up to you. Good luck. Sound like things are coming right along.

 

[sam]

Sure, start clicking. Lots of people hardly charge a clicker. I start with 'the get it game'. I click and toss a treat out really fast as I say "get it!", repeat that 5 times and they start to get the idea that the clicker is something fun and eciting and means something good is going to happen. Just make sure you are clicking fast enough. You need to click the *instant* those elbows hit the ground he is down.

I think how you thin out your reinforcement is dependent on the dog. You can probably go quite quicky to getting two behaviors ie a sit and a down or a down to a stand for one reward esp if he gives you really fast responses. I wouldn't do that though until I knew my timing was really good and my dog was really excited about training. I would want VERY high reliability - I don't record keep very often so I wouldn't say a percentage.

I don't really think about which behaviors I click for anymore or stop clicking a certain behavior because it's not new anymore or the dog "knows" it. They say until a dog has 5 stationary position cues that he can discriminate between, he is basically guessing. Dogs are amazing at figuring out at which times and in which order we tend to ask for things. It takes longer than most people think for them to actually cue on a verbal cue because they are paying so much more attention to the visual picture they see.

When we train I have my clicker in my hand and as we go around a course (rally-o) or train, I will click and treat for anything that is REEAALLY nice- a beautiful finish , a perfectly straight front, anything that is performed really well. If I get a crooked sit obviously that doesn't get rewarded, we just keep on going but I am mindful to keep the rate of reinforcement up. I have very sensitive, very 'do a good job' oriented dogs so I have to be a bit careful otherwise if they do something really well very many times and don't get ackowleged, they think they haven't done it just right and will change it and experiment to see what they need to do to "do it right" and get rewarded.
It's important to keep the rate of reinforcement high so when in doubt don't be stingy esp with a new dog, a young dog, a soft dog, a low motivated dog a low drive dog etc etc etc If I want to rev my dog up before going in the ring I might click for every single behavior just to get his confidence and motivation up-- nothing worng with that.

Make sure you are varying your reinforcers and not always relying on food-- that's an easy trap to fall into.

I'm not sure how loud a snapple lid is. I can't imagine trying to walk, hold a snapple lid so that I can pop it in one hand, watch my dog, be able to give a treat or a toy, perhaps hold a leash all at the same time. Remember that one of the reasons that a clicker works better than a verbal marker is because it's FAST.It doesn't have to be processed in the brain the way speech does so it's given, heard and understood faster. Timing is everything with clicker training and most people tend to be late as it is. Any reason you are not using a real clicker ? If you are looking for a softer sound, I highly recommend the i-click, it's the one Karen Pryor designed and it's NICE. It makes a less obnoxious click and it's sooo comfortable in your hand and much easier to give a well timed click. It's much easier to push the little button than click with a regular box clicker and you never accidentally have it upside down and therefore unclickable. You can get them through her site or www.sitstay.com or www.cleanrun.com or just about anywhere online that sells clickers.

 

[Tracer Tong]

Yeah, the reason I don't have a real clicker is because I'm in Egypt and I haven't been able to find one. I read somewhere that a snapple lid type thing would work although softer. That's why I've been using it.

Thanks for the answers guys. They were really helpful. I do hope that this Friday I'll find a pet store here in Cairo and they'll have one. Along with worming stuff, tug-toys(and I'll teach the rules don't worry), and say frisbees and balls. Gotta have fun stuff to do with a puppy.

 

[Tracer Tong]

Did I mention you guys are great? I should have.

 

[sam]

Egypt hey? Cool! You'll have to tell us more about that. I wonder what postage is to Egypt that's a world away! I have a zillion clickers and as I said I'm so partial to my i-click now, I rarely use a regular box clicker - let me know if you can't find one or if you can't find an online retailer to send you one.