Premade raw vs. homemade raw

don't let them eat it all at once!

i'm raw feeding one of my cats, and i give him larger than one meal food items. i just let him eat part of it, and then bag it and keep it in the fridge until the next day.

Thats a very different than a situation with and adult dog. Growing animals are much more sensitive to Ca than adult animals. While feeding no bones to an adult would obviously be bad, the effects would take longer to appear, and likely be less severe. Something like being off the Ca ratio for a week or two should show no effect.

I know that some people set it down, let them eat approximately a days worth, pick it back up and put in back in the fridge, and then feed it again the next day.

I started out with pre-made, and slowly transitioned to all home-made. =) I was a little bit freaked out at first, too, so don't feel bad!

As others have mentioned, the key is balance over time. If you feed your dogs a RMB one day that is 2 days worth of food, fast the the next day, or feed them only a small meal. Personally, I do feel that eating prey model is much more beneficial than pre-made... one of the most obvious differences being how clean RMB's keep your dog's teeth. While pre-made does practically nothing to scrape away tartar. I also much prefer being able to balance out my dog's meals on my own... instead of relying on a manufacturer. And, of course, home-made is WAYYY cheaper! I still feed pre-made occasionally, if I'm feeling lazy.

There are lots of special veggie blend pre-mades (Grandpa's being one of the companies that sells just veggies), if you're worried about veggies. My boys love pureed veggies, but I will sometimes feed it with muscle meat, or their organ meal, or whole sardines, which they love even more. I only feed veggies occasionally, but I DO supplement regularly with kelp, fish body oils, vitamin e, and a few dairy products.

Offal usually isn't a favorite for most dogs, at first. Try pureeing the organs, and serving them with muscle meat, pureed veggies, or some salmon oil.

On one of the raw discussion groups, when we were recovering from Bruzer's near death experience on a pork bone, they suggested I feed him large hunks of food, let him eat as much as he wanted, and then not feed him for a few days. The thought being, a daily meal isn't something that is 100% natural to a dog- they would eat their fill one day and not have a meal until they could kill or find another, which could be days. I never took that advice, but where Dekka's dogs are concerned, maybe letting them eat 2 days worth of food and then fasting them a day wouldn't hurt. I fast Gunnar and Bruzer about once every week or 2. Not Daisy because she's still a pup.

I agree. I wouldn't say I fast my dogs OFTEN... but if I give them a huge chunk of something, or whole prey (usually the result of my laziness), they do not act hurt or starved at all if they don't eat the next day. Their stomachs are designed to gorge and fast.

But, I usually cave and give them some meat scraps, or a home-made frosty paw or two!

I'm going to respond to everyone -- but it make take me a few post to do so.


Dekka -- the recipe that you posted sounds like it would be perfect for my dogs. Your dogs are a bit bigger than mine so I would need to scale it down. The NV has veggies/fruit in it according to the label (http://www.naturesvariety.com/conte...n=naturesvariety:4B10C7C70333406477nnrh609D29). They eat it without any problems.

Gempress -- I did not ever try cooking the veggies. I was under the impression that they do not get the value needed out of the veggies unless they are 'broken' down, which is why I was blending them. They LOVE veggies if they are not mush or blended. Right now, I will typically add cottage cheese, yogurt, apple, green beans, corn, etc to their meals and they tear it up. Is what I was told incorrect? If I was to add the veggies to their meals fresh (how we eat them) I would have no problem getting them to eat it. We have a bearded dragon and they are always begging for her salad (collard greens, kelp, squash, etc) and if I drop some on the floor it's a race to who can get to it first.

With the offel I was feeding VERY small amounts. I only tried this diet for about a month because I was concerned about their health since I couldn't get them to eat the things I knew they needed.

I introduced the meals about a week apart. I started with chicken, and they eventually tried beef, pork, and turkey. My female used to have a very easy tummy, but in time she is fine and it's my male that gets sick. I had to feed him nothing but the NV chicken for 2 months before I could get him to eat 1-2 meals a week of beef. His stomach just don't handle things very easy. Lamb to this day still makes him sick.

Melissa -- I have read both sides on the veggie thing. The thought of them not eating veggies doesn't stop me from wanting to feed them raw. I just add them every once and awhile as a filler and to give them a little variety to their diet. All the suggestions you listed I have tried but the feeding them partly frozen. My dogs never got the chance to eat tripe because I couldn't find it anywhere. After switching to the NV I found a place that carries it.

Part of the reason I am wanting to switch them from premade is cost and also because I figure if I know exactly what Brawt is eating I can pinpoint what is making him sick.

I have the same problem as Dekka -- all the meat I buy is going to be WAY more than what they need in one meal.

I can probably manage a way to get them to eat organ meat once a week but is that enough for them to get what they need? I was also under the impression that they needed RMB everyday -- not true?

If I decided to go the route of having the chicken back/necks, etc ground does that present a problem other than them not getting the benefit of chewing the bones to clean their teeth?

When you guys feed fish do you just put the whole fish down? My guys love sardines, mackerel, so I'm sure they would eat fish. I don't know that they would tear into a whole animal though. Do you feed frozen fish? fresh fillets of fish?

I have a 5 1/2 month old puppy. Are there any additional vitamins/minerals that she needs over the adults? I know that calcium is important for her, but as long as she is getting her RMB she should be fine, correct? I will probably fast everyone but Nomi on occasion.

Last and final question....

Supplements? What do you supplement with and why? I already supplement with Salmon Oil.

I appreciate all the responses and I'm sure I'll be bugging some of you folks again once I make the switch.

Thanks again!

-Ashley

If you can get them to eat their 10% organ in one day, that's fine. The only thing you may have to worry about with that (until they are used to it) is runny stool the next day. Definitely try feeding them frozen or with tripe... I hope that works for you!

You don't have to feed bone every day either, it also only needs to be 10% of the diet. Again, depending on your dog, you may get runny stool when you first have a meat only day, especially if they are accustomed to getting bone daily. Not to worry, they will adjust.

Ground is fine to feed sometimes, but maybe you could mix in some whole parts too?

I have fed fish fillets, but I know many people feed fish completely whole. Whatever works for your dogs.

I have experimented with various supplements. The only ones I have stuck with are fish oil and probiotics.

Hmmm I don't think Dekka would be happy if every day I took 'her' food away. RIght now she will willingly hand over any thing in her mouth (remember a while ago I posted a thread where Dekka was retieving hot dog wieners?) I don't think I could take her food away on a near daily basis and not have her start scarfing as soon as she got it. Now I could take the whippets food away, they don't care much about food.

And yes I realize balanced over time is not a problem I said I agree with it, and that is how I EAT myself. I am not talking about a week or two. I am talking about people who feed their dogs improperly ALL the time. For years. Yes a balanced approach works, but you do have to make sure it is balanced. People can live on Mc donalds Sunny D and cheeze doodles, but even if they aren't overweight it doesn't make it healthy. I think raw feeding is the best way to go, obviously, but I don't think people should be cavalier about it.

this is really impressing recipe... ill try it to my dogs...

I read that cooking veggies also breaks down the nutrients into digestable forms---just as it does for people. As long as they're not overcooked, which destroys the nutrients, it's fine.

For the organ meat, mine only get it once a week. Zeus won't eat it by itself, so I cut it up and mix it in with canned fish, ground meats or eggs.

No, they don't need RMB every day. As long as they get sufficient RMB over the course of their diet, it's fine. Mine regularly get meals with no bones at all, such as tripe, chunks of deer meat (from a hunting buddy), beef, or a meal of organs mixed with ground meats, fish or veggies. But they also get meals with lots of RMB, such as turkey necks, pork neckbones, or chicken leg quarters with back and rib bones attached.

I don't feed fresh fish, simply because it's insanely expensive in my area. And I love fish. So if I'm spending the money on fresh fish, darn it, I'm eating it myself! My boys get canned. So sorry, but I don't know anything about feeding it fresh. I also don't know about ground bone cleaning the teeth.

I would send a pm to Redyre to find out about raw for puppies. If I remember correctly, she feeds raw to her puppies.

I personally don't suppliment at all. I figure if it's truly a complete diet, there shouldn't be any need for suppliments. And my boys seem perfectly healthy. I did debate about doing salmon oil. But instead, I started to feed canned salmon about once a week. I figure it's the same thing.

I'm sure they are going to have a tummy ache a day or two until their body adjust to the changes -- especially with my male and the puppy.

What is the %'s of each item that should make up their diet? I thought bone was more than 10%.

I was only considering grinding some of it so that I am not having to deal with weighing out all the little part daily or so that I'm not having to take their food away when they still have some left (pieces too big). But I will feed whole parts as well.

I'm planning to supplement with Salmon oil, but what is the purpose of using the probiotics?

Yippee! I'll just cook them for them as I do for my husband and I and all should be good.

So, feeding chopped collard greens/squash in raw form isn't going to do any good since it isn't 'broken' down, right?

Thanks for the response! I'll send Redyre a PM and see if she can help me out with Nomi's food. I agree with you about supplements and that if the diet is truly complete that you should be fine.....but I also know that there are something they can't get from their food, but I'm not sure what those items are.

On a side note -- isn't pork something you should be careful with as it is known to carry more bacteria than the other foods and it is harder for them to eat (as a RMB) than the others?

Sure, whatever works for you... just throwing out the suggestions!

Different people do it different ways, but prey model follows a 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organ guideline. It's not a hard and fast rule or anything. Realistically, I probably feed more than 10% bone. It's just a guideline.

I give my dog probiotics mostly because he has IBD/a sensitive stomach. A lot of raw feeders say you don't need any supps at all, but I just toss the fish oil and the probiotics in because they are things I take myself and I figure that they can't hurt!

I don't think pork has any more bacteria than any other meat. If you are talking about trichinosis, it's pretty much be eliminated from US pork. But if you are really paranoid, you can freeze it for a month before feeding it. I give my dog pork all the time without freezing it, and I think DanL does the same.

I personally have had no problems with pork. I figure if my dogs eat dead animals they find in the yard, commercially-raised and processed pork can't possibly be that bad.

Mine crunch the bones easily, but I could see them being a problem for smaller dogs. They're pretty thick and heavy. Maybe you can feed pork meat to smaller dogs, but not necessarily the bones. I wish DanL would chime in here about his experiences feeding RMB to his pug.

*waits anxiously for DanL*

If it's blended fine, like other veggies, I think it would be ok. But even if not, it's good fiber. And you don't have to get fancy with the cooking unless you want to. Just nuke it in the microwave for a few minutes.

Just be careful about boiling the veggies. It tends to leech some of the nutrients out into the water instead of leaving it in the vegetable. But if you serve the water along with the veggies (say, mix egg or fish into it), it's not an issue.