Premade raw vs. homemade raw

Somewhere I saw research that discounted the "eat the stomach contents" part of prey. It said something about the stomach contents being sour/acidic due to digestive juices and the predator not eating it. They eat the stomach but shake the contents out. Even if they did eat the contents, it's not going to be the 1st thing they eat, and I doubt those contents would be 10% of what the animal would eat. Dogs are opportunistic feeders. If nothing but plants are available, they will eat it. But, put a plate of meat and a plate of veggies down for your dog and see what they eat 1st. I know my dogs have an order in which they eat. They will find the organ meat 1st, then eat the muscle meat, then eat the RMBs last. Unless it's fish day, then they'll eat the fish last.

How little do they eat?
less than my guys. That was a concern of mine too, which is why I stopped feeding whole animal parts. One chicken back was 2 meals for Scandal. Not very balanced lol.

They each eat 1/4 cup of food a day when it comes to grainfree kibble. So they should be having 2.5-4oz of raw a day for their weight.

An herbovour has little on a reagular basis in the stomach (which is very acidic) but mostly in the intestines (where it is basic) This is one of the 'arguments' about why dogs don't need to be able to break down cellulose (neither can we actually) is because when they eat the plant matter its already partially broken down.

Oh come on haven't you ever fed tripe before? It is the grossest stinkiest nastiest stuff ever, and my dogs absolute FAVE.

Thats about how much Dekka eats, unless we are doing a lot of agility. She was getting that much orijen. I feed a bit more volume of raw, due to its high water content.

Are you wanting to do your own raw, or buy premade. Cause with small dogs premade is fairly doable $$ wise.

What kind of fish do you feed, Dan? Mine love canned fish like mackerel, salmon and sardines. They like it more than other meats. I haven't tried fresh because the fish here is so gosh-darned expensive.

I think it's interesting that yours love the organs. Mine, it's not their favorite. But they love crunching on the RMBs.

I want to do homemade... premade would cost us about $60/month, and I'd like to know exactly what my dogs are eating. We fed Nature's Variety premade for a while, but it's fairly expensive for what it is.

I have a friend who makes her own, but mixes it in each dog bowl at feeding time. So for example she has a meat mix and a veggie mix, and does up each bowl at feeding time (she also adds plain yogurt..I have done that as a treat, but I am too lazy) That way she KNOWS how much she is feeding.

I like the whole prey model too (just my prey includes plant matter lol)

Do you grind up the chicken backs yourself?

lol NO that would be waaayy too much work. I can buy them from a few sources like that. The one I am buying now the ground chicken backs (a finer grind which mixes better) is 55 cents a pound. The other place I was getting them was a dollar a pound.

Hmmm. I used to do the whole mixing/grinding think like you do. But it is a LOT of work with dogs this size. Then I read some raw plans that say that the point is balance over time, not a balanced meal every day, and I decided to try it.

That's what I do with my guys. Here's what a week of their meals might look like (this is per dog):

Monday-chicken quarters, with ribs and back attached.
Tuesday -chicken quarters, with ribs and back attached.
Wednesday- 1 lb pork neckbones and 1 lb pig's feet
Thursday- 2 lbs turkey necks
Friday- chicken quarters, with ribs and back attached.
Saturday- ground beef mixed with diced liver and an egg or two
Sunday- canned salmon w/veggies

That's kind of a rough idea. I change it up a based on what's on sale, and what I see they haven't had in awhile. For example, they may get beef or chicken hearts for one meal. Or tripe. Or a bit of lamb, reduced for quick sale. Or even leftover mashed sweet potatoes and meat trimmings from our meals.

It's ridiculously easy to feed this way. I love it! I don't worry about bone percentage, organ percentage, etc. I figure that as long as they get a decent variety, they'll be healthy. So much easier than all that grinding and chopping! I just toss whatever's for dinner out on the lawn and let them have at it. Except for canned fish, eggs and veggies---those are seved in bowls.

They're doing great on it. The vet oohs and aaah over them and says they're in fantastic condition. I'm not sure how practical it would be for JRTs or if you're even interested, but it has worked wonderfully for me.

I'd think something like this might work better for smaller dogs like chis? If they don't eat much, maybe it would be easier to give them one food item per meal, rather than trying to mix a bunch of itty-bitty pieces together.

I would do that if my dogs didn't eat so little. I can't feed those things, as a chicken 1/4 would be 2 days worth of food for Dekka (maybe more) And I do worry about the Phosphorus:Calcium ratio. I do know dogs who have gotten very very sick from raw (as in had to be PTS) from not being fed properly. Now what you are doing looks pretty good, but in little dogs you have much less leeway.

LOL I still figure even an less than perfect raw diet beats 99% of kibble out there..and the dogs seem to love it so much.

Yikes! Scary! What happened with those dogs who had to be PTS? What problems developed? I'm very curious. I once met a lady at the dog park who said she fed "raw"---nothing but ground beef or ground chicken. I still wonder how her dog looked in the long term.

My mom debated on going raw with her maltese, Scandal, after seeing the results with my two. She decided against it. She said it would be way too messy, considering she keeps Scandal in full coat. Scandal is incredibly greedy and can't be trusted to eat daintily, LOL.

Well my vets had to PTS an entire litter of puppies because the owner didn't feed the mom any bones. They were born without sufficient skeletal development. There was an older dog too, but for the life of me I can't remember what happend.

Tom Lonsdale's book Raw Meaty Bones has the breakdown at the zoos of what the animals ate and in what order, David Mech's has also done his study of the wolves and what they ate.

None of my guys get veggies fed to them on purpose, though they do get occasional greens from 1) stealing or 2) licking the plate - the pup almost none and rah more because he eats a ton.

Rah and the pup eat a total of about 8-9 lbs total a day between the two of them - my old man only intermittenly eats raw, and the cats eat a few meals a week. I feed as whole as possible, and model after the whole prey model accordingly. Berlin had her first whole (including head, fur organs, feet!) rabbit 2 nights ago and she LOVED it! My cats love whole chicks, quail, mice, you name it. Those things are VERY easy to feed to small dogs as whole prey

Thanks for all the responses/advice guys!

I just now had the chance to check this thread and I have to run, so I'll check back later tonight and respond.

Thanks again

I am so bad about keeping the stuff I read, and then I can never find it later. But here are a couple articles I found doing a quick google search that I know I've read before. I'll try and find some more later, if you would like. I can hit up some of my better organized friends on my raw feeding list. lol

http://dogtorj.tripod.com/id51.html
http://manteega.com/preymodel.htm

Jessie, I know LOTS of people who successfully feed their Chi's raw.

Gempress, I feed tilapia which I can get whole, but only Bruzer likes that, frozen whiting fillets which Daisy and Bruzer eat, and Mr Finicky Gunnar will eat canned Mackerel mixed with hamburger. He gets a lot of salmon oil capsules. I try and give the other 2 one mainly fish meal a week, like for Daisy I'll give her a pound and a half of the fillets and 2 1/2lbs of a RMB for a meal.

Dekka- over time I've developed a rotation of foods for my guys. A lot of people do a "variety over time" approach- they don't need every food source every day. So if a chicken back lasts one of your guys 2 days, thats fine. When he's done with that, give him a muscle meat for a couple days in a row with a bit of organ meat. As long as they get everything over the course of a couple weeks they won't have any problems. My guys might go a week with nothing but chicken quarters and boneless pork, then when that is gone, we'll move onto something else, maybe deer, for a week straight.

no what I mean is one chicken back..eaten in one sitting is more than they need for 2 days. THen what do I do? They would get fat. LOL as a person I go for the balanced over time thing. And with the dogs too. But smaller dogs metabolisms are faster and they go through nutrients faster, so the time period needs to be smaller.