Premade raw vs. homemade raw

I have been feeding the Natures Variety pre-made raw for about 16 months to our two adult dachshunds. We recently got another puppy and due to the cost increase I'm considering making their raw.

My question is this....

Before feeding the NV raw -- I attempted to feed them homemade raw. It was a nightmare (partly because I was new at it) but because they are so picky. My female flat out REFUSES to eat ANY kind of offel. My male will only eat a very limited selection and when it does he throws it up. There wasn't once he ate offel and didn't get sick. Also, they will not eat veggies (which really isn't that big of a deal). Is there a way to get around this? I tried everything -- adding things to entice them, sweet talking them, etc.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Must they eat veggies? I wasn't aware this was a necessity in a raw diet.. I think it's weird they don't like veggies, though.. most dogs I know love them, especially carrots! Good luck.

Yes a small amount of veggies are nessisary. And a bit of fruit. When you added veggies before did you puree them first?

By offal I assume you mean organ meats? What kinds did you try, and how much did you feed. Organ meat is very rich.

My 'recipe' is..
70 pounds ground chicken backs
8 pounds ground beef organ meat
(sometimes add whole ground herring)
a dozen eggs
a bag of carrots
a bag of apples
a bunch of bananas
some broccoli
(sometimes some cranberries, squash..what ever is in season)
A clove or 2 of garlic (this is good for them and even the picky ones seem to love it with a bit of garlic)
1 cup of kelp meal (full of vitamins and minerals)

This recipe costs me about $1.53 to feed all 7 dogs a day.
ANd it works out to be about 10-15% plant matter 90-85% animal matter. The phosophorus:calcium is pretty good too.

What is in the NV premade that they like? It will have veggies in it too.

Have you tried cooking your veggies? My dogs hate them raw, but they LOVE them cooked. I just buy a random bag of frozen veggies, throw it in the microwave for a few minutes, and serve them while still-warm. They lick the bowls clean.

With the offal, how much were you feeding? It can be really rich. Mine only get a couple of ounces a week, and they're big dogs. Zeus doesn't like offal much either, so I just cut it up and mix it with canned salmon.

And did you try to introduce the different meats all at once? You have to give them some time to get used to each type of food. Start with one type of meat (usually chicken), and give them only that for a few weeks. Don't worry, you won't hurt them nutritionally. When they're eating it well and show no sign of tummy upset, add the next food item and repeat the process.

Zeus was also very picky about raw initially. All he liked was chicken and veggies. Period. He turned his nose up at everything else. After about six weeks, I finally got fed up and gave him some cut-up tripe. He didn't eat it. Fine. So I picked it up and gave it to him again the next day. And the next.

I know they say to take food away after 30 minutes. But I left it down for about 2 hours. After a lot of sighing, sniffing, sad puppy eyes, and repeatedly checking the bowl for something new, Zeus finally caved and ate it. I had to do that with almost every single new food I gave him. But now, he eats it all eagerly. I guess he finally realized "this isn't so bad!".

I'm no nutritionist, but I honestly think that veggies are overrated in raw diets. I remember seeing one raw plan that recommended 30-40% veggies. That seems way excessive. I give mine a bit of veggies, but not a lot. Just 1-2 cups of cooked veggies once a week. If I remember right, DanL doesn't really give his dogs fruits or veggies at all. And his dogs look great.

Dekka, what do you do with all those ingredients then? By that I mean, how do you serve?

Yeah, I don't specifically give veggies. I will give Daisy leftover plain white rice or baked potatoes when we have them, as filler, because she eats so much.

Mix them
I have 4 liter tupperware like containers. i spread a thin layer of the veggie/fruit and kelp meal mix (oh ya and there are whole eggs in that) so its about 10% of the volume of the container (i just eyeball it) Then add the meat. Freeze and just pull out one container when I need it.

The reason I do ground meat, is that Dekka and Scandal eat so little that even a chicken back is waaayy to much food for them. Heck, even a chicken neck is too much. I should get some whole chicken backs again for everyone else (its better for them)

Dekka I bet Daisy eats more in 1 day by herself than all yours combined! She eats 4lbs a day.

Hrm...well raw for me is going to hvae to wait until I have a freezer that can accomodate it...right now I have one of those "apartment" fridge/freezers that can hold like two frozen pizzas and a bag of veggies at one time.

I would love to do it though, the dogs really enjoy the chicken quarters and knuckle bones they get as rec. bones now. I just have to figure out my costs and percentages for feeding a combined 125-ish pounds of dog.

Well I haven't weighted all the ingreds. But say its approx 90 pounds of raw I make up at a time. It lasts about 30-40 days depending on what the dogs are doing.

Ya Dan..I bet she does lol.

Dekka and Scandal eat about 3 tbs of food a day each. The 2 whippets eat about as much as all 5 JRTs put together.

A freezer is a real boon when doing your own raw as things get much cheeper the more you buy. Right now my freezer is on the fritz so everything is stored outside on the porch.

Lol, the one good thing about winter! Instant giant freezer!

You don't have to feed veggies at all. Dogs are carnivores, and it's not a requirement in the diet. It doesn't necessarily hurt them, but they really don't have the enzymes to digest cellulose and plant matter. When is the last time you save a wolf eating a carrot? My dog is allergic/intolerant/doesn't like veggies so he doesn't get any. So, if your dogs don't like them, I would just cut them out all together. Especially if there are sensitive stomach/allergy issues. There are many ways to feed a raw diet, and I feed my dog prey model which is a diet of 80% meat, 10% bones, and 10% organs. No veg, no yogurt, just a fish oil supp.

As far as getting them to eat organs, I would first suggest that you try freezing them. This seems to help a lot of dogs. I did that with mine at first, but now he just eats them squishy. You can also mix them in with green tripe, which works for a lot of dogs because they are so crazy about the tripe. I've also heard of people searing the organs very lightly. Some people have also had success feeding organs before the rest of the meal, so the dog knows he has to eat them to get the good stuff.

Personally, I don't care for the pre-made stuff. It's expensive and you don't know exactly what's in it, how it was manufactured, and where the ingredients came from. Many of the mixes contain too much bone and veg and not enough meat, imo. Especially if one of your dogs has a sensitive stomach. There is just about everything but the kitchen sink in those mixes, so who knows what is causing him to vomit? I get all my stuff from the grocery store and an occasional co-op order, and I do it for a lot less money than if I was feeding the pre-made stuff.

Anyway, just my $.02.

except darn global warming. Every time it gets above freezing I start worrying about the raw on my porch. Good thing so far its only been a day here and a day there (yesterday was above freezing, but today is a flash freeze) Even in the house it takes a day for the raw to thaw..so if its only a day its fine.

The other option if you wanted to do some raw is to get one of those tiny chest freezers. They prolly cost as much as a big one. I know a few people at college who have them in their tiny apartments.

Oh and Zoom, you might looks on craigslist for a cheap freezer. I just got a chest freezer for $100! Very exciting. lol

I have done A LOT of research on this. YES wolves and coyotes DO eat vegetable matter. Berries in particular. And they eat the stomach contents with glee. And as thier natural prey are herbivorous, there is a fair amount of plant matter in the digestive tract. (depending on the animal up to 10% if its total body weight can be digesting plant matter, if I remember correctly) There are certain nutrients that are much easier to get if you feed plant matter. Not saying dogs will die with out it, heck dogs live on Ol' Roy dog food too.

Insects are a good source of nutrients and I have found coyote scat that is full of beetle carapaces, but I am not about to feed them bugs (IIIICCCK!)

ITs a matter of getting the correct balance of nutrients.

Yeah, there is a lot of conflicting information, and as I said, there are many ways to feed raw. I think some dogs do great with veg, but other dogs (like mine) just can't tolerate it. I've found plenty of articles saying that dogs need veggies and plenty that say that they do not. I tend to agree with the latter, and my dog won't really allow me to practice otherwise anyway. lol

I had a giant chest freezer at my disposal, but then my parents moved and I'm stuck in this shoebox for another few months and then I'm not sure where I'll be moving to.

I would really like to switch my chis to a raw diet. The thing is, they eat such a small amount of food so I'm afraid it'll be hard to make it nutritionally complete. Also, they're gulpers so I'm not sure where to start on finding things they could have.

Do you have any information (like journals) about canines exisiting on a real meat only diet for long periods. I couldn't fine any (which is why I tended to believe it was needed)

And for example while I believe it is only humans and guinea pigs who cannot synthesize vitamin C. It is much easier for a dog to eat the vit C it needs than to make it. Beta carotene and anti oxidants are other ones you can't get without eating some plant matter. Can the dog do with out. Perhaps. But as most wild canines don't do with out (in my findings) I would be hesitant to go that route unless I HAD to (which it sounds like you do... )