To all the Christian Chazzers...

S

savethebulliedbreeds

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#81
I was going to stay out of this thread because I am not a christian. I am one of those "enlightened" athiests someone was talking about.

I find it very disturbing how close minded people are about religion, or non religion in my case.

Personally I would never say anything negative about religion, other than the fact that I don't agree with it. I would never try and disprove it to someone else though, nor would I make fun of someone for it.

Personally, I believe people are people, religious or not and there is no excuses for making fun of people for their religion. IE, "enlightened" athiest.

In regards to the dogs having souls well, I believe that you die and you are buried in a box and that is that, even with people. I don't believe in heaven, because I don't believe in religion therefore I dont believe in souls.

What exactly is the definition of a soul anyways?
 

Charliesmommy

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#82
What exactly is the definition of a soul anyways?


This made me curious. According to Dictionary.com:

soul /soʊl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sohl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation,
–noun 1. the principle of life, feeling, thought, and action in humans, regarded as a distinct entity separate from the body, and commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; the spiritual part of humans as distinct from the physical part.
2. the spiritual part of humans regarded in its moral aspect, or as believed to survive death and be subject to happiness or misery in a life to come: arguing the immortality of the soul.
3. the disembodied spirit of a deceased person: He feared the soul of the deceased would haunt him.
4. the emotional part of human nature; the seat of the feelings or sentiments.
5. a human being; person.
6. high-mindedness; noble warmth of feeling, spirit or courage, etc.
7. the animating principle; the essential element or part of something.
8. the inspirer or moving spirit of some action, movement, etc.
9. the embodiment of some quality: He was the very soul of tact.
10. (initial capital letter) Christian Science. God; the divine source of all identity and individuality.
11. shared ethnic awareness and pride among black people, esp. black Americans.
12. deeply felt emotion, as conveyed or expressed by a performer or artist.
13. soul music.
–adjective 14. of, characteristic of, or for black Americans or their culture: soul newspapers.


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[Origin: bef. 900; ME; OE sāwl, sāwol; c. D ziel, G Seele, ON sāl, Goth saiwala]

—Related forms
soullike, adjective


—Synonyms 1. spirit. 4. heart. 7. essence, core, heart.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source soul (sōl) Pronunciation Key
n.
The animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
The spiritual nature of humans, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.
The disembodied spirit of a dead human.
A human: "the homes of some nine hundred souls" (Garrison Keillor).
The central or integral part; the vital core: "It saddens me that this network ... may lose its soul, which is after all the quest for news" (Marvin Kalb).
A person considered as the perfect embodiment of an intangible quality; a personification: I am the very soul of discretion.
A person's emotional or moral nature: "An actor is ... often a soul which wishes to reveal itself to the world but dare not" (Alec Guinness).
A sense of ethnic pride among Black people and especially African Americans, expressed in areas such as language, social customs, religion, and music.
A strong, deeply felt emotion conveyed by a speaker, a performer, or an artist.
Soul music.


[Middle English, from Old English sāwol.]


(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source
soul (1)

O.E. sawol "spiritual and emotional part of a person, animate existence," from P.Gmc. *saiwalo (cf. O.S. seola, O.N. sala, O.Fris. sele, M.Du. siele, Du. ziel, O.H.G. seula, Ger. Seele, Goth. saiwala), of uncertain origin. Sometimes said to mean originally "coming from or belonging to the sea," because that was supposed to be the stopping place of the soul before birth or after death. Hence, from P.Gmc. *saiwaz (see sea). Meaning "spirit of a deceased person" is attested in O.E. from 971. As a synonym for "person, individual" (e.g. every living soul) it dates from c.1320. Soulmate (1822) is first attested in Coleridge. Soul-searching (n.) is attested from 1948, from the phrase used as a pp. adj. (1612).

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source
soul (2)

"instinctive quality felt by black persons as an attribute," 1946, jazz slang, from soul (1). Soulful "full of feeling" is attested from 1863. Hence Soul music, essentially gospel music with "girl" in place of "Jesus," etc., first attested 1961; William James used the term in 1900, in a spiritual/romantic sense, but in ref. to inner music. Also from this sense are soul brother (1957), soul food (1957), etc.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
WordNet - Cite This Source soul

noun
1. the immaterial part of a person; the actuating cause of an individual life
2. a human being; "there was too much for one person to do" [syn: person]
3. deep feeling or emotion
4. the human embodiment of something; "the soul of honor"
5. a secular form of gospel that was a major Black musical genre in the 1960s and 1970s; "soul was politically significant during the Civil Rights movement
 

Sush

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#83
Wow, thank you Goldiefur, that link was EXACTLY the kind of information I was looking for. I never meant this thread to be a debate on which religion is right. I already have a faith that I'll carry with me until the day I die. I would never push it on anyone, but I'll always be there for someone interested in learning more about it. I will never tell someone they are wrong for thinking differently than me or put them down in any way. I was simply asking for someone a little wiser than me biblicly, to show me exerpts from the Bible that reference animals and where they go when they die. And a person did just that :) Thanks.
 

Whisper

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#84
I'm not a Christian. . .I'm agnostic, I'm not sure where I am yet, but I agree with Saje. . .I can't look into the eyes of an animal and not see what they have inside of them. . .their eyes speak much louder to me than any logical argument or definition. :)
 

Sush

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#86
Grammy...that makes me sad :( My intentions were to post a question to which I wanted a biblical answer to pertaining to animals...dogs in particular. I wasn't trying to preach to anyone, I just know that there are a few members on here that are more knowledgable than me when it comes to what's in the Bible. It turned into something different and that bumms me out. Althought there is quite an interesting debate between GO and Puckstop
 

Buddy'sParents

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#88
Grammy...that makes me sad :( My intentions were to post a question to which I wanted a biblical answer to pertaining to animals...dogs in particular. I wasn't trying to preach to anyone, I just know that there are a few members on here that are more knowledgable than me when it comes to what's in the Bible. It turned into something different and that bumms me out. Althought there is quite an interesting debate between GO and Puckstop
Ah, but it's certainly not your fault. I bet a lot of people feel the way Grammy does because religious threads certainly do not have a history of going very well. But, that has nothing to do with you. :) It was a good question.
 

FoxyWench

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#89
from what ive read in the bible its pretty much VERY unclear if you put EVERY part together it contradicts itself alot...but then again the bible in general does alot of that...so...

my personal belife is that any god that would not allow a dog in the afterlife that is supposed to be paradise, is NOT a god i would like to be associated with.
I do belive the dog has a spirit just as any living thing does (yes im one of those crazy tree huggin heathens) and they have every right to whatever life lies beyond this...

if my dogs arnt there waiting for me...im not going to heaven.
 

Sush

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#91
I guess it kinda hurts to be grouped into another one of those "crazy christians" type catagory. But everyone gets grouped into some sort of catagory they don't like at some point in their lives. Thanks for the reassurance and explanation though :)
 

Buddy'sParents

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#92
I guess it kinda hurts to be grouped into another one of those "crazy christians" type catagory. But everyone gets grouped into some sort of catagory they don't like at some point in their lives. Thanks for the reassurance and explanation though :)
Oh, no. Forget about categories. You be you. That's all that matters. Its just good to know that ANY religious thread will create conflict- it really will. I'd tell you to do a search, but I'm not sure you want to. :)
 

Sush

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#93
The Bible is a difficult book to read and understand thoroughly and that's why I've invested alot of time in doing bible studies to decipher it and pull out the real meaning, as everyone perceives it differently because alot of it is NOT meant to be taken literally. In my studies I have yet to find a contradiction.
 

Sush

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#94
Oh, no. Forget about categories. You be you. That's all that matters. Its just good to know that ANY religious thread will create conflict- it really will. I'd tell you to do a search, but I'm not sure you want to. :)
I'm not sure I do either...haha I should just know that when entering this forum I should leave most of my sensitivites at the door. :)
 

ToscasMom

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#96
I really do want my Catholic friends to know that I do not hate Catholics at all. I was raised a catholic and if I hated them, I wouldn' have very many friends because I live in a largely Catholic community. Many Catholics I know are very religious people. I just personally found conflicts with Catholic doctrine that make it impossible for me to remain one myself. I am definitely a protestant. That certainly has nothing to do with the love I feel for my catholic friends and relatives or the love they return to me.
 

Xerxes

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#97
Though I don't have the original documents to prove my point, I will, nevertheless give it the good ol' "college try."

In Genesis, I believe, the bible states something to the effect that a God created Adam and Eve in his own image and gave them "dominion" over the animals.

IMO, this speaks volumes as to the Christian/biblical view of whether animals have souls or not-in two ways.

In his image: this specifies that humanity is different than the rest of the animal kingdom. With what regard? It has to be a soul. There's nothing else left.

Dominion: One cannot have dominion without holding some sort of power or control over what is being dominated. That essence of control indicates that the dominated are lacking something somewhere. It says that animals are not greater than or equal to humans. It says that animals are less than humans.



These are not my personal beliefs. I was merely offering an answer to the question posed by the OP.
 
V

VWilson

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#98
Of course animals have souls. The bible says so.

Animals are different, and at a lesser level than man, but that does not make them souless.
The bible is for us, not animals, animal do not need the bible, they are not given the burden of sin, or a sinful nature


Perhaps this will help:

Job 12:7-10 KJV) "But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind."
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Let everything that has breath praise the Lord (Psalm 150:6).
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Matthew 6:26: "Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?"
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In Job 38:41, God says that He hears the cries of newborn ravens crying to Him for food. Jesus went on to say that God supplies food for the wild birds and that not one of them falls to the ground without Him knowing it.


V Wilson
 

ToscasMom

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#99
That essence of control indicates that the dominated are lacking something somewhere
Presumably, it is IQ. Although with some people I have known....well nevermind.
You do also realize that Man is the only species that appears to even think about death, and whether there is an afterlife, and if so, where they will go? I will use the domesic cat as an example, mainly because they enjoy life and when it is time to die, they don't make much of a fuss about it and do it with dignity. To the other species except for Man, death just seems like part of the cycle of life and that is that.
 

Xerxes

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Presumably, it is IQ. Although with some people I have known....well nevermind.
You do also realize that Man is the only species that appears to even think about death, and whether there is an afterlife, and if so, where they will go? I will use the domesic cat as an example, mainly because they enjoy life and when it is time to die, they don't make much of a fuss about it and do it with dignity. To the other species except for Man, death just seems like part of the cycle of life and that is that.
Truly spoken.

Though our GSD that had a fatal and very rare brain fungus knew that he was going to the vet to be PTS. The night before he went to everyone's room and laid with them until they went to sleep. (Very uncharacteristic of him) He also wouldn't look at the camera when my dad tried to take pictures of him. And this is a dog that was a serious HAM! I still miss him tremendously.

If there ever was an animal with a soul, it certainly was him. I hope to see him at the bridge.
 

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