training a dog not to be agressive.

We have two dogs, Columbo who is a little over 2 years and jessie who is just over a year old. they have gotten along fine until recently. she has started to be very agressive towards him. he is submissive and lets her have the authority, but she still continues to attack him.

we are keeping them separated for now. we are getting spray bark collars for each, and a muzzle for jessie. does anyone have any advice for what else we could do to teach her not to be agressive towards other dogs?

both dogs are shepard mixes, and jessie has something else in her, perhaps chow, maybe even pitbull that makes her snap and with seemingly no trigger will attack the other dog. we adopted her so we dont know what else she is mixed with, it's just a guess that it's probably with some kind of agressive dog. it has steadily gotten worse, and the last time she actually cut him and was really fighting with him. we have a baby, so if she continues to be really agressive, we will probably have to find her a new home, but i would hate for that to happen. i want to know that i've tried everything i could think of before having to do that. any thoughts, let me know, and we'll give it a try.

Try not being so sterotypical. Sorry. Any dog can be aggressive, some more then others though. Don't pin point the bullies, it really makes me sad. And plus, they don't "just snap" like that, its a myth, theres always a trigger.


on another note....
Im not a specialist on dog behavior, but this is what I got from learning around here. You'll probably get more educated posts than mine.

Are these dogs neutered, thats usually a big factor. Altered dogs get along better?

They both most likely just reached maturity and seems like they are fighting for top dog, so to say. But from what you say, her still attacking him and all, it seems like you just truly have a dog aggressive dog. From what I know you really cant "cure" dog aggression, I know, I live with a dog aggressive dog. You can teach to suppress, but sometimes that aggression can become redirected to other things, like humans.

Have you tried training classes? Is your male the only other dog shes aggressive towards? Theres so many different possibility's, I guess.

I know some people on here, crate and rotate. Like, only leaving one dog out at a time.

My information may be completely wrong, like i said, wait to see if anyone else responds with better info. Good luck.

Hey guys, the OP is my sister. The dogs are both neutered and have been together and crated together for about a year now. I actually asked a question awhile back about their aggression and the basis of my concern was the fact that they are crated together. I know this is never (almost always anyway) a good idea to do. They are at the age where being caged together so much is just getting to them, that is what I think. It is sad because Jesse is such a sweet dog. She nuzzles you and licks the baby's feet and face, she is a wonderful dog otherwise, it is just scary for my sister being not as familar with dog behavior and how to correct problems I guess.

With this I agree; top dog; being caged together; a little jealousy = never a good mix.

This I disagree with. Dog aggression and human aggression are two ENTIRELY different things in most cases. Unless you count someone sticking their hands in to break up a fight (which is just silly and not too smart) and getting nipped at. In your average happy, healthy, friendly dog who happens to be dog aggressive, I think this statement is false. That is my opinion and from experience too. I have seen the nastiest most aggressive dogs, that have killed other dogs and animals that are just the sweetest things around people. Our Sheltie Max we used to have was dog aggressive, with most dogs, very few he was alright with. He wouldn't hurt a fly otherwise. He had the typical herding instinct and would try to herd us by nipping at our heels to seperate us if we were arguing or something. I have known countless dogs that just aren't good around others but wouldn't lay a mouth on a person.

it's not uncommon for dogs to become intolerant of other dogs as they mature, especially in certain breeds. the muzzle and the bark collars are really NOT good ideas. keeping them completely separated so that they cannot even see each other for at least a week and then starting to SLOWLY reintroduce them by taking them for walks together on neutral territory is your best bet. obedience class and practicing good leadership will also help.

i would call a professional behaviorist at this point especially since there's a child in the house. a little kid in the middle of a dog-fight is a bad bad thing.

there's no guarantee you're going to fix this. some dogs simply don't get along. the more fights you allow to happen, the harder they're going to be to stop.

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I agree with this. Well said.

First of all, they're not caged together a lot... in an average week, it's only for about 5 hours 3 days a week. They have always been crated together since the day we got jessie. They are not jealous dogs fighting for 'top dog' because colombo doesnt care. when she starts to be agressive towards him, he just stands there and takes it, so obviously he has given in to let her be 'top dog'.
I don't believe that she is just dog agressive and cannot be cured. All dogs are trainable. I dont know why you guys say that the bark collars and muzzle are not a good idea... I would like my dogs to be able to play together without the fear that she will attack him again. it took 3 grown men to get them apart when they were fighting before, so the muzzle will keep her from being able to do that. (and i know they say you're not supposed to try to break up a dog fight, but we're not going to just stand there and watch while our other dog is mauled to death). my sister-in-law who is a vet has had a bark collar for their dog for a while, and it has worked great for them. colombo never used to bark at other dogs until we got jessie and she started barking. by teaching her it is not ok to bark at other dogs, she may then start to learn it is also not ok to be aggressive towards other dogs, as barking is one form of aggression.

Barking is one form communication. Not aggression. Suppress the communication and then you'll really see aggression...

you're right, barking is a form of communication... when she is growling, glaring her teeth, barking her head of at the sight of any dog, that is showing aggression, we dont want to encourage that kind of communication.

YOU would like your dogs to play together, and that's well and good, but what about what the DOGS want? what if she doesn't WANT to play with the other dog? all dogs are trainable, but that doesn't mean you can train out something that is an intrinsic part of your dog's temperament.

keeping dogs who are fighting contained together is asking for a disaster. dogs kill other dogs. it happens far more than i'd ever like to think about.

two links that were written specifically pertaining to pit bulls, but which i think can be applied to many many breeds and individual dogs:

dog tolerance levels
multi-dog management

please be safe and make responsible choices for your dogs. think about how you'd feel if you came home and found colombo dead or seriously injured. please separate these dogs.

This does not surprise me! As Elegy already wonderfully said, your dogs are reaching maturity and they are not going to interact the way that they used to. They are no longer puppies and they are going to behave like adult dogs. Before my Saint had reached maturity he used to be wonderful with other dogs. Not so anymore, we had to accept that he was DA and deal with it!

Unfortunatley this does sound like dog aggression. Even if your male is not vying for the top position your female clearly wants to make it known that she is the top dog, and feels the need to make it very clear to Columbo regardless of his submissive nature. What kind of body language are they showing before an 'attack'? Posturing, head position, tail position, eye contact? These are all things that can trigger a fight.

I agree!! You will be able manage DA, this does not mean however that you can train your girl to like other dogs, it means that you can train her on appropriate behaviors. My rule of thumb with DA is to not put my boy in a situation where I cannot have full control . Example, letting him offleash where I know other dogs may be. He is with me, under control at all times in the case that we will encounter another dog. On leash he behaves wonderfully and does not lash out aggressively at passing dogs, he looks to me for guidence. Unfortunatley the other dog in your situation is in your home. This is why I agree it is very important to get an animal behaviorist to help you. You need to be aware of the hidden triggers that is setting your girl off.

Instead of rewritting what has already been debated here a thousand times, just do a quick search on these devices here at Chaz and you will see why these tools are not appropriate for your problem. When you have a aggression problem and you use negative reinforcement you can infact cause MORE aggression instead of reducing it.

I strongly suggest getting professional help. An aggressive dog is not one to take lightley and if you truely want to succeed and be able to have a home where both dogs can live side by side this would be your best choice. However, be prepared that sometimes dogs who are DA just are not happy having to share a home with other dogs. No matter what breed they are or what training they have.

That on top of the fact that they have been crated together their whole lives thus far is what made this whole problem a lot worse then it might have been otherwise. This is the sort of thing that happens as result or makes it a lot worse.

(this was a response to one of the other posts, i somehow didnt see all of the posts before i replied)

The dogs want to play together too. They have been completely separated from eachother since last saturday, and whenever they see eachother, they wine and prance around because they want to go play. The muzzle is so that they CAN go play, and I don't have to worry that she is going to attack him.

before you attack me for keeping the dogs together... i said that i want them to be able to play together and not attack... we dont just leave them loose together all day while we are gone. since she started attacking him, we are keeping them crated separately while we are gone.

dogs need to have a pack leader... we have not done a good job with jessie of showing her that we are dominant, and from what i hear, that means that she feels an imbalance or instability and is trying to be dominant. the bark collar is one way to show her her behavior is not acceptable. the muzzle is just for safety so that columbo won't get hurt again. obviously those two things alone aren't going to make her be less aggressive and teach her that we are the pack leader... we are going to be doing more positive reinforcement with her... but i think it will take more than just those things to really train her.

I'm not going to waste my time reading through other debates about bark collars and muzzles. Point is, they work. I know people that have used bark collars and their dog is fine, and rarely barks for no reason.

As far as the muzzle... what would you rather me do? just never allow the dogs to be around eachother again? or would you rather me just let her maul him to death? the muzzle is to protect columbo so that they can both still play together like they want to. we're not going to keep it on her all the time, just during dog play time, and just until she has been trained to not be aggressive towards him.

muzzles are NOT fool-proof. they can come off and result in a dog-fight. they can also make the dog more defensive and more aggressive. why would you want to do that?

i gave you a reasonable course of action for trying to safely re-introduce your dogs that is neither allowing your dog to maul the other to death nor never allowing them to play together again.

i really don't understand why you would post here asking for advice and then just go ahead and ignore all of it.

You have gotten s ome well th ought out and written advice. It is true that you don't have to take it...

I hardly think it would be a waste of your time, infact it would be a great use of your time because you asked why we discouraged the use of these aversive techniques. A muzzle will protect Columbo when they are together, BUT they won't be playing together with a muzzle on. Your female will not be able to play short of jumping on and around Columbo while he is still capable of mouthing (which is an important part of play). This will frustrate your female, cause anxiety, and allow aggression to build because she now will have no defense mechanism which she has already made apparent that she feels the need to show. Sure, as long as she is muzzled Columbo will be safe, but what about the times that she is not wearing a muzzle and a trigger causes a fight? It will happen, I promise you this and now that she is unmuzzled she can allow her built up aggression and anxieties out. This will be a dangerous situation for Columbo. But if you don't want to take our advise seriously contact a true behaviorist and ask them.

A bark collar is another thing all together. You indicated that you want a bark collar because you want to stop her from snarling and barking (while baring her teeth) at other dogs- her aggressive bark you said. Personally, I prefer my DA dog to tell me he dislikes another dog instead of showing me. A bark collar will teach her to not bark and communicate her warnings to other dogs and their owners, and you too. Instead you will teach her that a warning bark and snarl is wrong. She will not use a human cognitive thought patterns here, reasoning that if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it all all. The only thing you would teach her with the bark collar is to not warn- skip this step and go straight to fight mode. The people you know most likely were not using a bark collar to control aggressive tendencies- probably a nuicance barker or the likes (although still a terrible form of training IMO). The training tools that are out there are only as good as the person who is using them, and someone who is uneducated in using such a tool properly will have unwanted outcomes.

In the end you can make your own mind up and cope any way that you see fit. I wish you the best and hope that your two dogs can learn to live peacefully together.

So are you saying that dogs living in a pack never have lower ranking dogs fighting? This is not born out in reality, the alpha dog never fights, everything is his if he wants it anyway. Its the lower ranking dogs that squabble if they feel like it. Really it has very little to do with what your relationship is like with the dogs, but everything to do with the dogs relationship to eachother.

The muzzle might make you feel better, but it would be like hanging around someone you don't like with your hands handcuffed behind your back.. Not likely going to make you more comfortable. And pain often escalates aggression, so dog gets upset, tells other dog to leave me alone, and gets zapped. Now who do you think the dog is going to associate the zap with? You got it, the other dog.

i did listen to some advice given on here... our dogs were seperated for almost a week. today was the first day we put them together again, jessie with the muzzle on. for some of the time they got along fine, but at least 3 or 4 times, she went at him, and if she didnt have the muzzle on, she would have bit him again.

no elegy, you did not give me a "reasonable course of action for trying to safely re-introduce your dogs". you told me to keep them separate for a while, then reintroduce them to eachother. how is that safe if jessie is free to attack him again at her will? the SAFE way to reintroduce them is to have a muzzle on her so that she CAN NOT attack him.

"i really don't understand why you would post here asking for advice and then just go ahead and ignore all of it."

well maybe if i would have gotten any advice that made some sense, i would have tried it all. but sorry, telling me to keep my dogs separate for a while, then slowly bring them back together? you REALLY think that's going to do anything? well obviously you were wrong, because i did in fact try that, and guess what?? she still tries to attack him! wow, saw that one coming.