5 year old girl killed by Pit Bull

In the frenzy of a fight, a dog doesn't really pay attention to what he's biting at. He's trying to bite the other dog, your hand is in the way, he bites you by accident.
Now, dogs that have killed people, though, obviously have something wrong with them and probably had human aggression issues to begin with.

(ACooper you beat me to it! :hail: )

Adoptashelter, I have no idea if he found his way home. I was in traffic and driving by. The thing is, people shyed from him because he was a pittie, and I am not sure I would have approached him either. He was dragging a 6 foot leash but yet he was "looking" for somebody, that was really clear. Some nimrod must have tied his leash to something temporarily and he got loose or something of that sort was all I could think of. Considering the area and some of the incidents that have occurred here, I would bet somebody called Animal Control rather than approach him. I do hope the dog is licensed, because animal control has no qualms about euthanizing unlicensed pit bulls around here.

Exactly, and I am amazed that people can't seem to grasp what should be obvious to anyone.

Here is a web site showing Pit Bulls that you can buy all day long in Atlanta for around $100.....

http://atlanta.oodle.com/sale/pet/dog/-/pet_breed_pit_bull_terrier/

sickening!!!!!!!!!! That is what they need to focus in on, cutting out the back yard breeding/puppy mill breeding of this dog. Leave it to people who will health test and temperament test and produce good well adjusted pups that do not need aggressive behaviors bred into them any longer!!!!

Yes, I said it..........aggressive behavior BRED INTO THEM!
You can't possibly believe that dobermans were bred for personal protection, or herding dogs have been bred to herd, or even hounds have been bred to track and not believe that SOME breeds have been bred to be aggressive, how lame would that be????

Is it the fault of the dog? NO............Is it the GOOD BREEDERS who do this NO, it is idiots who think I have a male and a female.......let's make some $$$

You are right Bob, the problem also has to do with poor breeding, but instead of banning the entire breed, why not pass laws that try to get rid of puppy mills and BYBs??

We need laws here in my town for labs too and any idiot that lets their unsterilized pet get pregnant. Other towns (albequerkie-sp??) have passed laws against BYBs and puppy mills and have had a lot lower euthanasia rates.

Our shelter kills 50 animals a week. And we are a small city. Seems like something should be done to encouarge good breeders and discourage/stop bad breeders. The 2 craziest dogs I have met came out of that shelter, they were golden retrievers. They reeked havock at the foster parent's house, to the point where the foster decided they would NEVER foster again. I know that they were like that because of poor breeding and poor owners. I dont blame the breed.

Everything you are saying is a problem with PEOPLE not the breed.

I would expect any breed that's been bred for dog fighting to be more dog-aggressive than breed which hasn't, and would expect the owner of the dog to control it accordingly. I don't think pit bulls or any other breed should be banned, but I think that pit bull advocates should be honest about the history of the breed. I cringe when I hear comparisons like, "Sure, pit bulls have a reputation for dog aggression, but the dogs I've had the most problems with are labradors!" Do you know what someone who is unknowledgable about the history of pitties will take that to mean? "Oh, pit bulls aren't any more dog aggressive than labrador retrievers." And then they will take their little pit bull pup to the dog park where they won't have any problems at all until the dog is one or two years old. "But I don't understand it . . . he used to LOVE other dogs!"

Danger, danger, Will Robinson! Dog-aggressive labradors are an atypical fluke. Dog-friendly pit bulls are an atypical fluke. A good fluke, a fluke I'd like to see more of. But for heaven's sake, don't let people walk away thinking it's a normal trait of the breed! It's irresponsible and will only lead to tragedies.

On a final note, the akita differs from the pit bull in a significant way. Akitas, as far as I know, have not been used for dog fighting in quite a while. They almost went extinct in the 1930s, after which a group of dedicated people started carefully breeding them to preserve the breed. Now, I could be wrong, but I doubt that people with so few dogs to work with were going to let them tear one another up by matching them in dog fights. Pit bulls have been used for dog fights in the recent past; sadly, some are used for dog fights still. With specialized breed traits, it's "use it or lose it."

An analogy: If someone showed you two English setters, one from many generations of champion show lines and the other from many generations of champion field lines, which do you think would have retained the better hunting instincts?

I wouldnt say that. Most the people I know who have pit bulls also own another dog and I dont know of anyone who has had any major issues. YES you are right, anyone wanting to own a pit bull needs to be warned they can be dog aggressive.

Amstaffer herself has 2 bullies I believe.

In all honesty, the most dog aggressive dogs I have been around are small poodle/yorkie/pom/doxie type dogs. I have told the story before, but a rescue friend of mine came home one day to find her Pom dead. I think it was 2 Yorkies and a Chihuaha (sp?)--they had killed her Pomeranian.

AAAAHHHHH, but here is the rub.............It is NOW a problem WITH THE BREED because of PEOPLE.

IMO, it's the fault of the owner's & the dog. The dog mauled the child & for that should be pts right there. The owner should face a charge of negligent homicide & be imprisoned for AT LEAST 20 years. Although I actually think making them face the death penalty for what they've done wouldn't be farfetched.

We weren't there so we don't know what happened, but bobsk8, I sure wish you would have been next to me when I did a necropsy on a euthinzed 'pit bull'. The dog bit a 6 yr old child in the face "for no reason" as the child was quietly playing. The mother went into the kitchen to check on dinner. Well, after all was said & done, we were asked to perform a necropsy on this dog. Guess what I found down in the ear canal after noticing dried blood from the inside of one ear? The tip of a pencil. That's right, it seems "for no reason" turned into "when the child jammed his sharp pencil down into the dog's ear canal so hard the tip was embedded in the tissue". But guess what? The "vicious pit bull turns on sweet innocent child" damage was already done. And according to you, once again, I should have to pay by freely allowing the goverment to put all my dogs to sleep.

I'm not saying that the dog was provoked. No one was there so nobody knows & speculation doesn't help at this point. And God knows there are plenty of unsound dogs out there owned by humans with bleeding hearts that believe their love will change/cure them.

And one last thing, I read a couple different articles that stated the dog was a 'pit bull'/labrador retreiver mix. IMO, when a mixed breed does the attacking, you can't pick out just 1 of the breeds that make up the dog & place all the blame entirely on that breed.

And bob, you can do your damndest to make sure my dogs are PTS for no reason, but over MY dead body will someone like you come into my home, take my dogs, & euthanize them just because YOU don't like them. And for the record, I wouldn't trust your shepherd mix any further than I could throw it. How would you feel if the government came into your home & killed your dog just because I didn't like it? You'd be pissed & it seems you've conviently blocked all the past (& even present) issues with shepherds out there out of your head. Maybe we just all just play ignorant & blame someone else's dog for everything.

At this point all of my sorrow is with the girl & I hope she was not concious for this attack. As for her parents & uncle, I find it hard to sympathize for stupid people who know better yet care more about themselves than their own children.

How would that not be farfetched?

Because they made a choice to leave a little girl alone with a dog that already had shown aggressive tendencies & had a history with AC & police. I'm not saying they should receive the death penalty by any means, but maybe if they are forced to realize that this happened because of their own actions then they might step up & become responsible people. I of course blame the dog here, but I also put just as much blame on the parents. It's called a scare tactic to force them to own responsibility.

The only thing is, if a loose Pomeranian runs up and attacks me or my dog, I might get bitten and so might my dog, but there's a far better chance that I can inflict enough damage on that dog to stop it long well before it kills one of us.

Yes of course I would get bitten if I interceded with a dog attacking my dog. But I surely wouldn't just stand there and watch my dog get killed. I am going to fight back as hard as I can, as most people would. I guess that would be considered provoking the dog into human aggression. That's fine, but there is no way on earth I am just going to let a DA dog eat my dog for lunch without a huge fight.

Good post Miakoda, although I'd be the one to blame the owner of the dog and everyone there that day for neglecting the child. They all would learn resposible.

... isn't quilt by association like 9 10th of the law?

Yikes.

1. DA does NOT lead to HA. If dogs are fighting & you put your hand right inbetween their mouths then you basically just stuck your hand in their mouth & invited a bite. Those dogs didn't know they were biting a human nor did they make the conscious decision to do so. What happens is so quick that in their efforts to get at each other, in a split second you thrust your hand in between them & you accidentally get bitten.

As for your theory that DA dogs are more likely to bite a human than a non-DA dog, that has got to be one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard. IMO, a HA dog is going to be more likely to bite a human. A fear aggressive dog is going to be more likely to bite a human. A guardian breed used to protect a home is going to be more likely to bite a human. All of these FAR outweigh the dog aggressive but people loving APBT when it comes to biting someone.

And I've never been bitten breaking up a dog fight b/n APBTs, but I have had other breeds completely turn & redirect on me. And at our clinic, after 5 serious bites to techs from a "family freindly & never ever ever aggressive breed", we have a big sign saying "NEVER TRUST A LAB". Now, does this mean all labs are mean? Nope. But it does mean that a dog must earn your trust as it's been proven time & time again that ALL breeds are capable of biting & doing serious damage & ALL breeds DO bite. I know they euthazied a dachshund the other day for leaving a kid with 70 stitches in his face, scalp, & neck. But according to many, we should overlook that incident & focus on dog aggressive dogs.

2. I'm not understanding your statement. Your trying to force a link that plainly isn't there b/n DA & HA. Ms. Sullivan's dogs were HA & that was a known fact. There had been issues in the past. You can't conveniently choose to overlook HA in a dog that is both HA & DA.

And personally, I'd love to see your resarch & proof that DA leads to HA. I'll be checking back in with this thread periodically & look forward to reading it all. Thanks.

I think that owner negligence IS manslaughter. It's like when a drunk driver kills someone in some ways. The drunk didn't do it deliberately but his own negligance at driving while intoxicated caused him to kill. The problem is, dogs can get loose. I know we say that 'responsible' owners' dogs don't get loose but it's just not true. A dog could bolt out of a house. A leash could snap from a distraction and the dog may not respond to come if it's savory enough. These are animals and even the most well trained animal can fall of its wagon at an inopportune moment. Some dogs can jump fences. If you have codes where you live, six foot fences can be the limit. Some can dig their way out. I am reading on these boards that some can actualy eat thru chain link fences. That in itself is a horrifically scarey statement about the dog. Why would anyone want a dog that can eat thru chain link fences? Isn't there even the slightest bit of fear of such a dog by its owner?I really believe that even with precautions, the owner of a dog that wants to escape can find his dog wandering away from his commander. We do not live in the best of all worlds where all combinations are predictable.

My question to you would be, did they have to pull the lab/labs off of the victim in time to save a life or did they bite and be done with it do to fear or pain?

You're right that a small dog can't inflict the same injuries onto an adult that a large dog can. But I have seen some horific injuries to children caused by small dogs (& have read about many fatalities as well as Poms & Yorkies alike have been involved int he fatal maulings of infants).

But I don't understand why people classify dogs that can't do damage as "small dogs" & dogs that can do damage as "pit bulls". Have we forgotten about every other breed that is the same size or even larger? APBTs are medium sized breed ranging in weight from 25 lbs to 60lbs with 70 being out of the norm. Any larger & it's a mutt. But what about those truly large breed dogs? Have we honestly lied to ourselves that those dogs can't do as much damage as the vicious "pit bulls"? In fact, every chance to state that "pit bull" differ from other breeds in bite force, actual cranial/mandibular structure, & every other aspect has been thoroughly & scientifically refuted by reputable scientists, veterinarians & other professionals. "Pit bulls" do NOT have th strongest bite nor do their jaws "lock". There is no locking mechanism as their cranial structure & mandibular structure is the same as every other breed. Their skulls don't "slit" when their brains get too large, nor do their brains get too large for their skulls & cause manic rage (all the Dobie people should know where I'm coming from with this one). Of course they have muscular jaws, but no more so than many other breeds. It's just how they look that's different. And I could go on & on & on here.

Any and Every dog is capable of biting a human being, no matter how cute and trustworthy you think them.............The problem is and remains, most dogs bite and are done........they don't continue to attack until the victim is dead!

That is the aggression problem surfacing..........It is so important to know, really know where your puppy came from, and who they came from.

So that would be, at the most, manslaughter. And since his intent wasn't to kill the little girl, it would only be involuntary manslaughter, aka negligence or (if it could be proved he was indifferent to the girl's plight) criminal negligence. I don't think he was indifferent. Just stupid.

There is no way he would get the death penalty when he didn't even murder someone.

Also, it's history with the police consisted of two charges--one for attacking a dog, not a human, and one for barking.