Nancy Grace has gone too far
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Dude- do you seriously EVER READ what ANYONE says to you? Or are you too busy puffing your chest out and feeling superior about your "experience?"
She stated that she has both fostered AND owned pitbulls. It's there in black and white. For anyone with functional retinas.
As for owning "grand champion fighting dogs." I don't why that's ever something to be proud of. Great that your dog died of old age- what about those that lost to it? I hope they were afforded the same "luxury." Gah- men and compensation...
By the way- nice post Tosca. Interesting and informative.
She stated that she has both fostered AND owned pitbulls. It's there in black and white. For anyone with functional retinas.
As for owning "grand champion fighting dogs." I don't why that's ever something to be proud of. Great that your dog died of old age- what about those that lost to it? I hope they were afforded the same "luxury." Gah- men and compensation...
By the way- nice post Tosca. Interesting and informative.
My grand champion won all of his matches. It was always the other handelers choice if he wanted to or thought he needed to pick up his dog. No one made them leave a dog in the pit. Cajun rules. There was several great pit bulls that were matched against him, especially the last. He impressed me so much I bought several litters out of the dog. They did not impress me. I still admire that dog but he just didn't produce.
I also had conformation champions. Bred, trained, and raised by myself.
Also put on obedience demonstrations with an unleashed pit bull.
Why not throw all that out the window just because some one has fostered a supposedely pit bull or two.
Do you think I may have learned a little something along the way?
It is always a suprise to me that many of those who say they are knowledgeable and experienced with the pit bull know little about the dogs history. They think by leaving out several hundred years that they can pretend it didn't happen.
Matching pit bulls was legal for hundreds of years. It has been illegal for only a short time. If you discard all of those years your knowledge of the pit bull is severely lacking. You will notice I do not support dog fighting but I will not ignore all of the years of selective breeding. Neither will anyone who is interested in the pit bull or anyone who owns or plans on owning a pit bull.
We are back to the original questions about dog bans. If you ignore the fighting history of the pit bull how is it possible to prevent something you know nothing about. If you discard all of the history of the selective breeding how can you make an intelligent argument about the personality of the pit bull.
I completely forgot, people do not have to make sense, just argue with each other until the pit bull is banned in their town. That is what many want anyway. Lets continue argueing so we can convince a few others to be for a ban. Be sure and do not learn a little history of the breed. Be sure to not learn the breed traits. Just dump them out there with all of the other breeds and repeat, "it is all in how the dog is raised" until they are banned completely.
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Well that might be true, logic is often not the mobs strong point but does that make it right?
One thing I have clearly seen in the world and many of the Pit Bull hater posts is that we as a society are all about the path of least resistance. We don't want to enforce laws against the problem, we would instead take a short cut and harm way more good people than bad with quick fix that in the back of our minds we all know won't work. We have tried to outlaw lots of things (Booze, Drugs, Guns etc..) but who has them? The Criminals, the exact people who shouldn't have them. If you ban pit bulls, criminals will continue to have them because that is what criminals do, break the law. I won't, Mojozen, elegy wont and so won't all the other good owners and you will only make things worse. They will also go onto other dog breeds (see Presas ....
We have to make a stand against the bad guys, stop appeasing and avoiding conflict. Our society as a whole is going down hill because laws in general are just too hard to enforce correctly so we take short cuts.......
Love,
the voice of logic
One thing I have clearly seen in the world and many of the Pit Bull hater posts is that we as a society are all about the path of least resistance. We don't want to enforce laws against the problem, we would instead take a short cut and harm way more good people than bad with quick fix that in the back of our minds we all know won't work. We have tried to outlaw lots of things (Booze, Drugs, Guns etc..) but who has them? The Criminals, the exact people who shouldn't have them. If you ban pit bulls, criminals will continue to have them because that is what criminals do, break the law. I won't, Mojozen, elegy wont and so won't all the other good owners and you will only make things worse. They will also go onto other dog breeds (see Presas
.... We have to make a stand against the bad guys, stop appeasing and avoiding conflict. Our society as a whole is going down hill because laws in general are just too hard to enforce correctly so we take short cuts.......
Love,
the voice of logic
Everyone needs to chill a bit.
Pancho DID raise and match dogs. Notice he uses the past tense. Just as a statement of fact. This is real-life knowledge of the past, and, like it or not, the past will always impact the present and reach into the future. Take advantage of an opportunity to learn. IF he had told you he was presently matching dogs that would be an entirely different story, but that's not what he said.
The world changes and evolves. Our own parents and grandparents had very different views on many things than we do today. It wasn't so many generations back that Jackie Gleason raring his hand back and threatening to smack his wife "to the moon, Alice, to the moon" was accepted as great entertainment . . .
Pancho DID raise and match dogs. Notice he uses the past tense. Just as a statement of fact. This is real-life knowledge of the past, and, like it or not, the past will always impact the present and reach into the future. Take advantage of an opportunity to learn. IF he had told you he was presently matching dogs that would be an entirely different story, but that's not what he said.
The world changes and evolves. Our own parents and grandparents had very different views on many things than we do today. It wasn't so many generations back that Jackie Gleason raring his hand back and threatening to smack his wife "to the moon, Alice, to the moon" was accepted as great entertainment . . .
ROFLOL!!
Now, Jess... it's just getting interesting with the ego of said member who takes pride in fighting pits.
Now, Jess... it's just getting interesting with the ego of said member who takes pride in fighting pits.
Which ego, the ones that are getting in the way of the whole point of this thread....well in that case its everyone...not just one person...
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Well, I found it to be funny, so I laughed.
And I specified which ego. Perhaps you should go back and read my post if you need clarification.
As for the thread... there are a couple people adding insightful posts which I find to be interesting and educating and others not so much (including myself).
Life goes on.
And I specified which ego. Perhaps you should go back and read my post if you need clarification.
As for the thread... there are a couple people adding insightful posts which I find to be interesting and educating and others not so much (including myself).
Life goes on.
Well, I found it to be funny, so I laughed.
And I specified which ego. Perhaps you should go back and read my post if you need clarification.
As for the thread... there are a couple people adding insightful posts which I find to be interesting and educating and others not so much (including myself).
Life goes on.
And I specified which ego. Perhaps you should go back and read my post if you need clarification.
As for the thread... there are a couple people adding insightful posts which I find to be interesting and educating and others not so much (including myself).
Life goes on.
but again it doesnt suprise me...I really dont care to go back and read anything for the simple fact, I dont find anything in this thread worth re-reading....
Thanks, I usually get it from both sides. They both think I am against them. I am just telling the truth. I am on the side of the breed. Sometimes that means not being very popular.
I lived part of the history of the pit bull. I saw the change that has happened to the owners. The dog hasn't changed that much. The owners have changed quite a bit.
It might interest some that one of my dogs may have produced the dog they now love. Back many years ago the grand champion was used as a stud dog by several other owners. If a dog is of the quality he becomes a grand champion in any legal sport many will try to breed to him.
People also bred to some of my champion conformation dogs. The dog I used for obedience demonstrations was studded out 3 times.
I do realize many will not agree with my past life. I am not proud of it very much either. I am proud of the dogs I produced as they went on to provide great dogs to many people and the bloodline is still alive today.
Going through many years with the pit bulls I have learned more than a little. Not everyone will agree how I learned what I know but that does not make the info false. There are a few others like me, getting fewer each year. There is not many who are interested in the history of the pit bull. Some would like to rewrite their history. Some would like to forget all of the bad. Some would like to make up their own history.
The only thing is certain is trying to pass on the information can make you a very unpopular person from both sides.
I lived part of the history of the pit bull. I saw the change that has happened to the owners. The dog hasn't changed that much. The owners have changed quite a bit.
It might interest some that one of my dogs may have produced the dog they now love. Back many years ago the grand champion was used as a stud dog by several other owners. If a dog is of the quality he becomes a grand champion in any legal sport many will try to breed to him.
People also bred to some of my champion conformation dogs. The dog I used for obedience demonstrations was studded out 3 times.
I do realize many will not agree with my past life. I am not proud of it very much either. I am proud of the dogs I produced as they went on to provide great dogs to many people and the bloodline is still alive today.
Going through many years with the pit bulls I have learned more than a little. Not everyone will agree how I learned what I know but that does not make the info false. There are a few others like me, getting fewer each year. There is not many who are interested in the history of the pit bull. Some would like to rewrite their history. Some would like to forget all of the bad. Some would like to make up their own history.
The only thing is certain is trying to pass on the information can make you a very unpopular person from both sides.
Amstaff, While I appreciate your voice of logic, what I really need is a way in which to help write an ordinance that is steeped in reality. That's what I will be doing, and that's the truth. I write a good deal of legislation for my area, as I am a former elected official who just ...well...writes a lot, for a short explanation. It's nothing glorious, but just something I have been asked to do for a fair number of years. Anyways, what is never going to happen in any legislation is an "idea". Legislation isn't about ideas, it's about laws. It's not always about good laws or laws that please everyone, but it is about laws nonetheless. I still do not see what anybody thinks we (as in collective "we" for those who are addressing this issue for councils, county legislators and the like) should do instead of banning and/or restricting.
I can assure you that at a public hearing there will be a few people like you giving your same argument, but it won't hold a candle to the kid in the front row with the maimed face, or the old fellow who got his limbs disabled. When it comes to an emotional argument, you would be bringing a knife to a gun fight, because neither side of this issue seems to be an actual voice of logic. That's always hard to do when there's a personal stake on either side of the coin.
I do see some financially unrealistic ideas presented, such as inundating an already shorted police force with a Dog Force. That's just not going to happen in cities all over the nation that are already feeling overtaxed and underemployed. Nobody is going to raise taxes for dogs. Now mind you, I am only being realistic. No amount of money on earth is too much for my dog. But the taxpayers definitely won't agree with me, nor will the elected officials who represent them. We have truly starving people in America that money is not spent on, it would be patently unrealistic to imagine that money will be spent protecting pit bulls in the face of a fearful majority. They don't want programs, they want to feel safe from any more attacks, and they want it now. That's the reality of the situation. That is why you are seeing more and more of this legislation springing up. Pit bull owners are losing this battle because, as I said earlier, people take sometimes undeserved priority over pets.
The other ideas I see will not have a timely impact, such as education, coming up a test for licensing/certifiying dog owners, also extremely expensive and definitely not going to have a timely impact; moreover not any more enforceable than existing laws. One pit bull attack during the years it takes to implement these thoughts, and every legislator in office will find themselves unelected. Can't have that, can we now?
God knows I would like to implement a licensing test before allowing people to become parents, but that's another story. What I need now is not a voice of emotion and personal needs, I need a voice of reality to help me work through this, because to be honest, I have been asked to do a draft. That draft will be expected to quell a fear based on real and palpable incidents. It will also be expected not to create a tax increase or a sacrifice in quality of services. At the same time, it will be expected to convince the public that they are a heck of a lot safer than they feel they are now. That's legislative reality at local levels. It's not going to change for this issue. So, please help me to do a better job of it, if at all possible. Or I can just go away and write what everyone else has written for lack of any other realistic options.
I can assure you that at a public hearing there will be a few people like you giving your same argument, but it won't hold a candle to the kid in the front row with the maimed face, or the old fellow who got his limbs disabled. When it comes to an emotional argument, you would be bringing a knife to a gun fight, because neither side of this issue seems to be an actual voice of logic. That's always hard to do when there's a personal stake on either side of the coin.
I do see some financially unrealistic ideas presented, such as inundating an already shorted police force with a Dog Force. That's just not going to happen in cities all over the nation that are already feeling overtaxed and underemployed. Nobody is going to raise taxes for dogs. Now mind you, I am only being realistic. No amount of money on earth is too much for my dog. But the taxpayers definitely won't agree with me, nor will the elected officials who represent them. We have truly starving people in America that money is not spent on, it would be patently unrealistic to imagine that money will be spent protecting pit bulls in the face of a fearful majority. They don't want programs, they want to feel safe from any more attacks, and they want it now. That's the reality of the situation. That is why you are seeing more and more of this legislation springing up. Pit bull owners are losing this battle because, as I said earlier, people take sometimes undeserved priority over pets.
The other ideas I see will not have a timely impact, such as education, coming up a test for licensing/certifiying dog owners, also extremely expensive and definitely not going to have a timely impact; moreover not any more enforceable than existing laws. One pit bull attack during the years it takes to implement these thoughts, and every legislator in office will find themselves unelected. Can't have that, can we now?
God knows I would like to implement a licensing test before allowing people to become parents, but that's another story. What I need now is not a voice of emotion and personal needs, I need a voice of reality to help me work through this, because to be honest, I have been asked to do a draft. That draft will be expected to quell a fear based on real and palpable incidents. It will also be expected not to create a tax increase or a sacrifice in quality of services. At the same time, it will be expected to convince the public that they are a heck of a lot safer than they feel they are now. That's legislative reality at local levels. It's not going to change for this issue. So, please help me to do a better job of it, if at all possible. Or I can just go away and write what everyone else has written for lack of any other realistic options.
B
First of all , if you ever decide to move, come to the Atlanta area. We could use some intelligent people in the legislature here. Secondly, I don't think many of the people contributing to this thread even want a realistic solution to this problem. They would rather name call and insult and try to demonize anyone that tries to be realistic about the problem and use some logic in the discussion.
A long time freind of mine lives in Miami and he said that during the hearings on the Pit Bull band, there were many comments from the people involved during the meetings that were held , and that the attitude of the anti-ban folks was generally pretty arrogant. This actually turned people off and resulted in counties desire to implement the ban.
A long time freind of mine lives in Miami and he said that during the hearings on the Pit Bull band, there were many comments from the people involved during the meetings that were held , and that the attitude of the anti-ban folks was generally pretty arrogant. This actually turned people off and resulted in counties desire to implement the ban.
Seems like you have both made up your minds...anything that is against banning pit bulls is "unrealistic" or too expensive and not practical.
I don't see why writing laws to ban a breed of dog will be any cheaper or more "realistic" to enforce.
First of all it doesn't work, that has been proven in most places that they have banned pit bulls.
Second, if you would get law enforcement to enforce the laws already on the books about animal neglect and licensing you wouldn't need to add much more laws.
The breed has been around for 150ish years why is it only in the last 20 years we have to consider banning them.....
Tell those people who are seriously injured at the meeting your injuries are terrible and we will convict the responsible humans but we will not go on witch hunt and kill thousands of wonderful dogs.
Then I would have 10 Pit Bull therapy dogs march in with children from the hospital who read to them or watch TV with them as they endure cancer treatments. I would then ask the city "elders" to tell these children that the one being in the world who puts a smile on their face has to be put to sleep because of the Mobs Hysteria and calls for blood!
I don't see why writing laws to ban a breed of dog will be any cheaper or more "realistic" to enforce.
First of all it doesn't work, that has been proven in most places that they have banned pit bulls.
Second, if you would get law enforcement to enforce the laws already on the books about animal neglect and licensing you wouldn't need to add much more laws.
The breed has been around for 150ish years why is it only in the last 20 years we have to consider banning them.....
Tell those people who are seriously injured at the meeting your injuries are terrible and we will convict the responsible humans but we will not go on witch hunt and kill thousands of wonderful dogs.
Then I would have 10 Pit Bull therapy dogs march in with children from the hospital who read to them or watch TV with them as they endure cancer treatments. I would then ask the city "elders" to tell these children that the one being in the world who puts a smile on their face has to be put to sleep because of the Mobs Hysteria and calls for blood!
OK, the next time I run into a child that has their face ripped off, I will tell them that they shouldn't worry, we will give the dog owner a fine!!! That should make the child feel just great!!!